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Archive 2016 · New 70-200 2.8 IS 3 coming... How do you improve on perfection?

ronno
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p.3 #1 · p.3 #1 · New 70-200 2.8 IS 3 coming... How do you improve on perfection?

If you really want to move the needle take that extra $1000 you'd have to pony up to replace an an already great lens - and spend it on some plane tickets instead.
Thus put more interesting things *in front* of your lens instead of using resources to replacing one good lens with another. Just a thought. 😁

Edited on Nov 27, 2016 at 08:45 PM · View previous versions

Nov 27, 2016 at 01:20 PM

jamato8
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p.3 #2 · p.3 #2 · New 70-200 2.8 IS 3 coming... How do you improve on perfection?

RSHPhotography wrote:
Yea. As someone who is a semi-pro, the price tags on these things are making it increasingly difficult to justify buying new.

I shoot professionally but not in a high paying job, a very low paying one but I chose this and have other income. I would agree the price is getting up there and I think a lot is based on make a higher profit margin since they have much of the groundwork already done and are not designing everything from the ground up.

Nov 27, 2016 at 01:47 PM

RSHPhotography
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p.3 #3 · p.3 #3 · New 70-200 2.8 IS 3 coming... How do you improve on perfection?

jamato8 wrote:
I shoot professionally but not in a high paying job, a very low paying one but I chose this and have other income. I would agree the price is getting up there and I think a lot is based on make a higher profit margin since they have much of the groundwork already done and are not designing everything from the ground up.

Looking at the lastest charts, it seems clear that the pro market has no decreased as the consumer market has. The problem is that like all companies who are in the business of making profit, the consumer market is also supposed to drive the pro market.

For example, I was one a consumer, fell in love with photography, invested thousands to make money from it now.

The consumer market is dying. The fact that camera reviewers are sticking the Iphone 7 along with DSLRs to test shows where the market is.

The pro market needs to expand. As people retire from photography, new blood has to take the place. I'm not sure we're in a healthy state to do that. Price of pro gear plays a part.

Nov 28, 2016 at 12:20 AM

Robin Smith
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p.3 #4 · p.3 #4 · New 70-200 2.8 IS 3 coming... How do you improve on perfection?

I agree with those who say that the f4 IS should have a refresh before this one. The only big reason to update this would be to reduce its weight by 500 g: that would be very nice, but is it possible? Maybe with new materials. The likely expense does not make it a good value proposition, but this applies to many lenses. I have to say that one (or even the main) reason I replaced my 24-70 ver I with the II was that it was a much more sensible size and weight.

Nov 30, 2016 at 12:54 PM

anselwannab
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p.3 #5 · p.3 #5 · New 70-200 2.8 IS 3 coming... How do you improve on perfection?

I'd look at my 70-200/2.8ISvI and see how much I could sell it for an upgrade to this. The V1 is good, but I see softness when I know I did everything right. I'd love to move from my 5DII/1DIII with 24-105/70-200+1.4 set up to a 5DIV/1DXII 24-105vII/70-200vIII, but that is some smack. I'll probably have to pick and choose what to keep, what to sell and what to add. Sell the 70-200v1 and add a 5DIV and 70-200vIII.

I really need to start generating some income from this beyond the $250/yr I'm making on iStockphoto.

Nov 30, 2016 at 02:17 PM

johnctharp
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p.3 #6 · p.3 #6 · New 70-200 2.8 IS 3 coming... How do you improve on perfection?

Robin Smith wrote:
I agree with those who say that the f4 IS should have a refresh before this one.

I think so too; tightening up the optics at MFD, reducing MFD, and upgrading the AF and IS would certainly rejuvenate this lens. Matching or exceeding the class-leading performance of Nikon's latest should be Canon's target, given that Canon is shipping 50MP bodies now.

Robin Smith wrote:
The only big reason to update this would be to reduce its weight by 500 g: that would be very nice, but is it possible? Maybe with new materials. The likely expense does not make it a good value proposition, but this applies to many lenses. I have to say that one (or even the main) reason I replaced my 24-70 ver I with the II was that it was a much more sensible size and weight.

Nikon went up-market a bit and used flourite the same way it's used in the professional supertelephoto primes, by replacing the main objective lens up front, thus reducing weight. Canon could likely do this and at the same time upgrade the lens' optics for 50MP usage at wider apertures (say by f/4) as well. Course, one would hope that they don't add in vignetting like Nikon did...

Nov 30, 2016 at 02:29 PM

Kathy White
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p.3 #7 · p.3 #7 · New 70-200 2.8 IS 3 coming... How do you improve on perfection?

I really love my 70 200 2.8 II. I think the only thing that might entice me to take notice of it's replacement would be a sizeable weight reduction. And judging from what I would anticipate the price to be, it would have to be sizeable enough to justify it.

Nov 30, 2016 at 04:14 PM

ggreene
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p.3 #8 · p.3 #8 · New 70-200 2.8 IS 3 coming... How do you improve on perfection?

The 70-200 IS II is so good that it allows me to wait for the mk3 refurb prices to drop under $2000 where it's a much better value.

Nov 30, 2016 at 07:56 PM

Robin Smith
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p.3 #9 · p.3 #9 · New 70-200 2.8 IS 3 coming... How do you improve on perfection?

thus reducing weight

1.43 kg Nikon ver III versus 1.49 kg Canon II (from B&H). I don't think this 60 g weight saving is worth $800! I think Canon would need to do better than this to get our money...

Edited on Dec 01, 2016 at 12:41 PM · View previous versions

Dec 01, 2016 at 11:05 AM

snapsy
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p.3 #10 · p.3 #10 · New 70-200 2.8 IS 3 coming... How do you improve on perfection?

The Mark II is excellent but a free Hershey's kiss included with every Mark III would make it perfect.

Dec 01, 2016 at 11:06 AM

CanadaMark
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p.3 #11 · p.3 #11 · New 70-200 2.8 IS 3 coming... How do you improve on perfection?

Robin Smith wrote:
1.43 kg Nikon VIII versus 1.49 kg Canon II (from B&H). I don't think this 60 g weight saving is worth $800! I think Canon would need to do better than this to get our money...

There is more than a weight difference between the Nikon FL and Canon II.

https://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2016/11/nikon-70-200mm-f2-8e-fl-ed-af-s-vr-mtf-tests/

The 70-200's from most brands have been so good for so long, it's easy to make an argument to save your money but those still looking for a noticeable improvement will get one. Everyone wins.

Dec 01, 2016 at 12:44 PM

ggreene
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p.3 #12 · p.3 #12 · New 70-200 2.8 IS 3 coming... How do you improve on perfection?

Looks like Nikon tightened up the middle FL's quite a bit.

Dec 01, 2016 at 03:10 PM

Robin Smith
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p.3 #13 · p.3 #13 · New 70-200 2.8 IS 3 coming... How do you improve on perfection?

It is on OLAF improvement, but I would need convincing this makes any practical difference in real life situations.

Dec 01, 2016 at 04:23 PM

mogud
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p.3 #14 · p.3 #14 · New 70-200 2.8 IS 3 coming... How do you improve on perfection?

I wouldn't be expecting IQ or size differences if an upgrade to the 70-200 II actually happens as predicted by the rumour sites. All this speculation of an upgrade might produce nothing more than a IS change with minor weight reduction.....who knows.

This upgrade could be similar to the 24-105 II which has turned out to be a big nothing. I certainly wouldn't be getting ahead of the crowd and dumping my ver II of this lens in anticipation of a better ver III given the 24-105 II disaster. I made that mistake with my ver 1 of the 24-105. Fool me once, shame on me, no fooling me twice.

I'll stick with my policy of no pre-ordering or buying new lenses until ample testing gives any new lens a thumbs up.

Dec 01, 2016 at 05:23 PM

bernardl
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p.3 #15 · p.3 #15 · New 70-200 2.8 IS 3 coming... How do you improve on perfection?

For what it's worth after a few weeks with the new Nikon I find my copy to be Otus like in image quality.

The zoom ring position is in fact preferable when you have gotten used to it. It helps me to be more stable.

Cheers,
Bernard

Dec 04, 2016 at 11:17 PM

wallstreetonei
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p.3 #16 · p.3 #16 · New 70-200 2.8 IS 3 coming... How do you improve on perfection?

take a brand new $6000 1Dx_II (I own one) and put any very sharp, very modern, very expensive lens on it and do the following test
- pick an outer Cross-Type AF point
- use a wide open aperture (F1.4-F1.8 on a Prime or F2.8 on a zoom)
- use a 1/FL SS
- take 10 shots
- do the same, except use liveview
- all the above is done handheld

I will bet almost any money that your hit rate is nearly 100% using liveview (and they will be tack sharp) and it will be 50% (if you are lucky) for critical tack sharpness when NOT using Liveview - and just eyeballing the pictures the difference between the two will be very material.

The point I am making is that while the difference with Nikon's new Version III is material (especially on the edges) for resolution, I feel pretty comfortable in saying that if the best Autofocusing DSLR on earth today (1DX_ii) has issues repeating tack sharpness on the edges because of the limitations of DSLR not using on sensor phase detection, then the tiny gains that this new lens will have will NEVER be seen in the real world (handheld @ 1/FL).

You can easily see this another way just by using an 85L II or 135L on a Sony A7Rii where you can get repeated (until the cows come home) wide open tack sharp images at 1/20th - versus needing 1/1000 on the 5DSR (I own all of the above cameras and have tested everything I have written).

If you want to get the actual benefit of these new lenses you need amazing IS and you really need to be using on sensor phase detection AF - otherwise it is a complete illusion.

What I want to see from Canon is an EVF option that uses on sensor phase detection - at that point, you can make the personal decision of whether you can justify the $500 increase in new lens prices because there will actually be real world benefits - otherwise there is no point.

Edited on Dec 05, 2016 at 02:47 PM · View previous versions

Dec 05, 2016 at 10:55 AM

ggreene
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p.3 #17 · p.3 #17 · New 70-200 2.8 IS 3 coming... How do you improve on perfection?

That seems a little pessimistic to me for the 1DX2. I don't use the outer AF points a lot but when I do I get better then a 50% keeper rate.

Dec 05, 2016 at 12:28 PM

wallstreetonei
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p.3 #18 · p.3 #18 · New 70-200 2.8 IS 3 coming... How do you improve on perfection?

If you happen to own the new 35L_ii (I fortunately do), it is nearly impossible to describe how sharp this lens is wide open across the frame @ F1.4 - it is stunning - on cameras such as a 5DSR or A7Rii the detail it can render, wide open, is only matched by Otus lenses.

Take the same 35L_ii lens, put it on either the 1DX_ii or 5DSR, handhold either camera at 1/60 and use any outer cross type AF point and take 10 pictures. Using nearly 1/2xFL for SS, your hit rate when compared to using liveview, and still handheld, will be half (and by hit rate I am mega pixel peeping to determine is it critically sharp - i.e. where any lens improvement would show up).

The great thing about the new 1DX_ii is that believe it or not shooting handheld with live view actually works - it is harder with the 5DSR as the blackout time is long between pictures - with the 1DX_ii it is hysterically fast and stable with the mirror not moving - it is almost comically absurdly fast.

And I agree about the 1DXii and using the center points - it never, ever misses.

Dec 05, 2016 at 03:17 PM

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