Home · Register · Software · Software · Join Upload & Sell

Moderated by: Fred Miranda
Username  

  New fredmiranda.com Mobile Site
  New Feature: SMS Notification alert
  New Feature: Buy & Sell Watchlist
  

FM Forums | Trip Location Advice & Meet-ups | Join Upload & Sell

1      
2
       end
  

Archive 2016 · Trip out west suggestions.
  
 
gdanmitchell
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #1 · p.2 #1 · Trip out west suggestions.


MrPeteH wrote:
On the way to Yosemite: IF you are able to take the east side (395) route, and IF you're not already out of time... an unusual stop on the way is Devil's Postpile Nat'l Monument. Very unusual formations, plus waterfalls and a lot more.


During the OP's visit, it is virtually certain that highway 120 (Tioga Pass Road) into the park from US 395 will be closed for the winter. In addition, the road to Devils Postpile closes at the Mammoth Mountain ski area and there is no vehicle access beyond that. Those who wish to visit Devils Postpile at that time will need to either cross-country ski or snowshoe in and then be prepared for backcountry winter camping.

In the words, no.

Dan



Nov 26, 2016 at 06:54 AM
GroovyGeek
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #2 · p.2 #2 · Trip out west suggestions.


gdanmitchell wrote:
During the OP's visit, it is virtually certain that highway 120 (Tioga Pass Road) into the park from US 395 will be closed for the winter. In addition, the road to Devils Postpile closes at the Mammoth Mountain ski area and there is no vehicle access beyond that. Those who wish to visit Devils Postpile at that time will need to either cross-country ski or snowshoe in and then be prepared for backcountry winter camping.

In the words, no.

Dan


A co-worker just told me that he skied this past weekend at Mammoth so the road to Devil's Postpile is already closed. It is "only" 8 miles from Mammoth Mtn Inn, so too much for a snowshoe in-and-out but for an experienced cross-country skier it may doable. Emphasis on "experienced".

Having said that, the snowshoe hike to Minaret Vista is 45 min tops and the views at sunrise can be quite nice.



Nov 26, 2016 at 11:28 PM
gdanmitchell
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #3 · p.2 #3 · Trip out west suggestions.


GroovyGeek wrote:
A co-worker just told me that he skied this past weekend at Mammoth so the road to Devil's Postpile is already closed. It is "only" 8 miles from Mammoth Mtn Inn, so too much for a snowshoe in-and-out but for an experienced cross-country skier it may doable. Emphasis on "experienced".

Having said that, the snowshoe hike to Minaret Vista is 45 min tops and the views at sunrise can be quite nice.


I've skied (x-c and tele gear) to Minaret Summit and it is an easy go. The trip down to the Devil's Postpile would be an overnight for most folks, which is why I mentioned snow camping.

The road past Mammoth Mountain Lodge is normally closed in the winter.

Dan



Nov 27, 2016 at 05:09 AM
MrPeteH
Offline

Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #4 · p.2 #4 · Trip out west suggestions.


So much for global warming

Visiting the east side when we're past winter is wonderful...



Nov 27, 2016 at 09:26 PM
gdanmitchell
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #5 · p.2 #5 · Trip out west suggestions.


MrPeteH wrote:
So much for global warming

Visiting the east side when we're past winter is wonderful...


The Sierra is an excellent place to observe the effects of a changing climate up close and unfiltered.

Long term studies have tracked the displacement of a number of species (specifically in the Yosemite high country, where records go back many decades) to higher and higher elevations as temperatures warm. A particularly striking example of the effects of climate change is the millions of recently dead trees all over the state, but mostly in the middle elevations on the west side of the range. One obvious place to view this sad development is from the famous Tunnel View overlook in Yosemite, from which we now see a Valley marked by thousands of dead trees.

And, yes, the east side is a wonderful place. I've been going there for years in all seasons.

Dan

You can see a few in this relatively recent photograph from The Valley...

http://gallery.gdanmitchell.com/gallery/var/resizes/NaturalWorld/TheLandscape/California/SierraNevada/Yosemite/YosemiteValley/Color/ForestCliffSummerHazeTreesYoseValley20160908.jpg



Nov 28, 2016 at 02:36 PM
MrPeteH
Offline

Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #6 · p.2 #6 · Trip out west suggestions.


Big topic, climate change

Yup, it's been warming. Just like 1-2,000 years ago, and 3-4k ago, and further back too. In fact the Finns (experts on all things relating to arctic trees ) have demonstrated that arctic treelines were a LOT further north than today, not all that long ago. That's a metric that varies quite slowly as you can imagine. (See p 17 of https://helda.helsinki.fi/bitstream/handle/10138/21169/holocene.pdf for one sample map)

The big question about climate is not "is it warming" but "is today's climate unusual"... a much more challenging topic.

Enough... back to photos! :-D



Nov 29, 2016 at 04:20 AM
gdanmitchell
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #7 · p.2 #7 · Trip out west suggestions.


MrPeteH wrote:
Big topic, climate change

Yup, it's been warming. Just like 1-2,000 years ago, and 3-4k ago, and further back too. In fact the Finns (experts on all things relating to arctic trees ) have demonstrated that arctic treelines were a LOT further north than today, not all that long ago. That's a metric that varies quite slowly as you can imagine. (See p 17 of https://helda.helsinki.fi/bitstream/handle/10138/21169/holocene.pdf for one sample map)

The big question about climate is not "is it warming" but "is today's climate unusual"... a much more challenging topic.

Enough... back to photos! :-D


Except, unless you limit your sources radically, it is NOT "just like" 3-4K ago. (And the link you provide is essentially irrelevant to the questions of human-caused climate change.)

Knowledgable people, including the vast majority of climate scientists, understand that there have been periodic climate variations throughout the history of the planet. For example, a "climatic maximum" allowed the settlement of southern Greenland over a 1000 years ago and the swing the other direction made that untenable some time later.

These are very long term patterns of change that can be traced to things including orbital patterns, perhaps the 11-year sunspot cycle, feedback effects in the climate system, periodic disruptions by things such as meteor impacts or volcanic action.

What is demonstrably new is the effect of humans, most notably by means of the burning of fossil fuels, over the period beginning by most accounts in the late 1800s. The effect was small at first but has been (as predicted) steadily accelerating, with outcomes that are largely matching the most reliable predictions.

The rate and level of CO2 increases is a particularly significant and objective marker. It is possible to trace the history of this over great periods of time in a number of ways. Current levels are higher than they have been over a much longer time span than that which you refer to. (http://www.skepticalscience.com/co2-levels-airborne-fraction-increasing.htm)

The evidence for human-caused climate change is far to voluminous to recount here. Fortunately, or perhaps unfortunately, the effects are becoming harder and harder to deny based on willful ignorance and the "it can't happen here" mentality. More and more, the objective evidence of the effects is seen in local areas, not just far away in parts of the globe we cannot imagine.

In my own state, the "unprecedented" (to use the language of scientists in this case) die-off of trees in California provides a stark example to anyone who visits California's mountains.

Further afield, the recent news that arctic temperatures during the current northern hemisphere autumn are not only above historical values but above them by (again) unprecedented margins is deeply concerning. (See many sources, but here is one popular source: http://www.wunderground.com/blog/JeffMasters/crazy-cryosphere-record-low-sea-ice-an-overheated-arctic-and-a-snow)

You are perhaps correct that science can rarely be "100% certain" of things. Science doesn't work that way, by contrast to the "deniers" who seem utterly certain of their position in face of massive evidence contradicting their belief system. It is, indeed, "possible" that all of the evidence and current observations are wrong, in the same way that it is "possible" that if you drive your car off of a 100 foot cliff at 90 mph you are not certain to die. Who knows? You might defy the obvious and predictable probability of death.

But that is not an argument for driving toward the cliff at 90mph.

In the grand scheme, I have little interest in arguments with deniers on a photography forum. However, I will not simply accept nonsense as fact and move on.

Dan

(For answers to deniers, this is a good place to start: http://www.skepticalscience.com/ )



Nov 29, 2016 at 04:34 PM
MrPeteH
Offline

Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #8 · p.2 #8 · Trip out west suggestions.


Dan, this isn't the place to go through this particular topic... here's a few facts for those who have interest. I'm not a "denier" but a rather well informed skeptic with significant science and engineering background.

IMHO, the biggest problem with all this today lies in three areas:

a) Modern science is "proving" things that aren't true. See metrics.stanford.edu -- a huge effort to discover what's gone wrong and how to fix it. Began when a survey of absolute gold standard research (top-three medical journals, filtering for papers with 1000+ citations (only 49 met that bar)) found that 63% were later shown largely false. Conclusion right now: getting it right is a LOT harder than most people think. That's the conclusion of people using 100% best practices.

b) We are letting our biases radically color our science. Dan, I could give a LOT of examples. I'll limit it to one at the core of global climate science: the IPCC. their remit is ONLY to examine human attribution, not to consider natural causes. And the evidence is rock-solid that what the thousands of scientists involved believe is not what is being presented to governments or to the public. A simple reference: Table 1, top of p14, here. (p13 describes what happens: the expert scientists agree that they have Very Low understanding of about half of all "forcing" topics... but this is then hidden from the public.) The rest of the paper at the link goes into detail about the political problems that have resulted in such a mess, and serious recommendations on how to do it better.

c) We're not asking unbiased questions, not dealing honestly with data. I could point to many examples again, but here is a nice simple one: the longest serving temp recording volunteer in the US, who received an award for his 84 years (!) of service before he passed away early this year. One guy, one location: Bridgehampton, NY on Long Island. One thermometer change (he got a nice upgrade in 1997), and one primary recording time (TOBS) change in 2008 from evening to morning. His raw records are available, 1931 to 2016. The two changes had no impact on his temperature records.

Yet... his records are "adjusted" to make the early temps be about two degrees colder than reality. (See here). Bottom line: the very BEST temp record we have has been altered incorrectly to show an extra two degrees of warming... and they do this to ALL temp records.

If you're willing to go back and re-examine your assumptions, as I have, you may find yourself a bit more skeptical in the future.

Good skeptics don't deny reality. We want *better* science. *More* rigor. *More* honesty about reality.

Please PM me if you want to continue this. Not the right venue. I will not respond "publicly" to any more on this topic.



Nov 30, 2016 at 04:56 PM
 

Search in Used Dept. 

        


Greg Campbell
Online
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #9 · p.2 #9 · Trip out west suggestions.


In any event, pumping a buttload of CO2 into the atmosphere constitutes one hell of an EXPERIMENT. An experiment on our one and ONLY planet.

As is, we're on course to reach double the pre-industrial CO2 levels in another 40~50 years. To deny the possibility of side effects is insane. (OTOH, blaming every odd weather occurance on "GW!!!" is just as senseless.) One writer compared what we are doing with coming across a sleeping dragon and deliberately waking it. Is it friendly, or fierce? I guess we'll all find out soon enough!



Nov 30, 2016 at 05:54 PM
GroovyGeek
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #10 · p.2 #10 · Trip out west suggestions.


This is all part of PEOTUS' plan to make the weather great again... in Alaska. Mar-a-lago as far as the eye can see. No more this snow nonsense, most people don't golf in the snow, ergo snow is bad for business. We need more of dem well paying caddy jobs in the good ol' U.S.of A.


Dec 01, 2016 at 05:46 AM
RMC cichlids
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #11 · p.2 #11 · Trip out west suggestions.


Wow I come back from a week off for thanksgiving and see all the new information. It's great to see.l
So I'm starting to finalize my trip. So far this is the plan I have put together. I will spend a week in Utah starting at golbin valley state park for a day, then head over to Capitol peak for a day or 2. Then I will go down 12 towards escalate and go searching for the slot canyons for a couple of days. I will then push on towards Bryce where I will try to do 2 sunrises and 2 sunsets then hit the road and get down to Vegas for the night. I will get a good night sleep maybe a little gambling in. And re setup all my provisions iI will need for the best part of my trip a week in Death Valley. The next part of trip is was to Yosemite but I'm thinking Tioga pass will be closed so I will have to go long way. I probably will as I have to go to Fresno to start heading towards Sonomo where my family lives . So I'll probably go up out of Fresno to see Yosmite for a couple of days before heading out to Sonoma for the xmas holidays.l Once Xmas is over I'm planning on taking hwyh 101 along the coast all the way up to the Oregon coast line and see a lot of the beaches where I've been dreaming all the great shots you guys get out there, Figure I will need a week to check out all the beaches and then another week along the Columbia river gorge before I start heading back east and possibly home in Colorado. But I thought on my way trip home I could possibly go to Yellowstone. I go to Yellowstone for the last 8 years (spring time) So I've always wondered how is in the middle of winter. Then I would eventually make it home down to Colorado Anyone want to chimein on some places not to miss on the coast. I have a few places but always open for more. Same thing goes for the Colombia river grouge



Dec 02, 2016 at 07:29 AM
gdanmitchell
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #12 · p.2 #12 · Trip out west suggestions.


Wow. Quite a trip. Hope you like cold! ;-)

And, yes, Tioga Pass is now closed and it is extremely unlikely that it will reopen until late spring.

Dan



Dec 02, 2016 at 02:24 PM
Greg Campbell
Online
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #13 · p.2 #13 · Trip out west suggestions.


Thanks for the update, RMC. Since you're heading from Bryce to Zion, consider these two small canyons. Both are quite close to the main road, just a few miles south of Carmel Junction.
http://www.americansouthwest.net/slot_canyons/elkhart-cliffs/canyon.html
http://www.americansouthwest.net/slot_canyons/red_canyon/index.html
You might want to leave a note with someone if proceeding alone to such remote destinations. Slipping on a patch on ice or snow and breaking a leg would become a life-threatening issue.

Keyhole is a small slot in eastern Zion that's super easy to get to. It's not wildly pretty, but "why not." Several others in the general area - find a good book when you arrive.

The whole N. California Cost in Winter thing sounds superb!
All the pictures I've seen of Crater Lake in the winter are amazing. Stop there for sure! (Heck, ALL the Cascade volcanoes look stupendous with a little snow. If it were me, I'd jog inland and tour the lot of them on my journey north. )



Dec 02, 2016 at 03:16 PM
gdanmitchell
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #14 · p.2 #14 · Trip out west suggestions.


Greg Campbell wrote:
Thanks for the update, RMC. Since you're heading from Bryce to Zion, consider these two small canyons. Both are quite close to the main road, just a few miles south of Carmel Junction.
http://www.americansouthwest.net/slot_canyons/elkhart-cliffs/canyon.html
http://www.americansouthwest.net/slot_canyons/red_canyon/index.html
You might want to leave a note with someone if proceeding alone to such remote destinations. Slipping on a patch on ice or snow and breaking a leg would become a life-threatening issue.

Keyhole is a small slot in eastern Zion that's super easy to get to. It's not wildly pretty, but "why not." Several others in the general area - find a good book when you arrive.

The
...Show more

If you are in the Crater Lake area you are near Klamath Lakes, and there are bird possibilities there, too.



Dec 04, 2016 at 09:42 PM
MrPeteH
Offline

Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #15 · p.2 #15 · Trip out west suggestions.


Didn't realize you might take time to do the coast up to Oregon! If doing that...

1) It's worth leaving 101 just N of the Golden Gate to get to Point Reyes park and environs. Everybody knows about Pt Reyes/Inverness/Tomales Bay. Not as many know about the fence that demonstrates the power of the 1906 earthquake. It's along the Earthquake Trail near the visitor's center. ALSO of potential interest... and you will likely need a GPS to get there: before Pt Reyes a small road to the left leads to Bolinas. This is where the Hippies from the 60's went. It's kept pretty quiet... and they often remove the sign on the highway. A store, a beach, a view, maybe some flower power paintings ... If you do this one you can easily get back to 101 at Santa Rosa. (A long time ago I had a great meal at a little place in Valley Ford...)

2) Second spot worth going to the coast from 101: Take 128 (beautiful drive) to Mendocino and Ft Bragg. Mendocino is an amazing artsy community, very scenic (stop as you approach for some great sights... ocean, old fence, meadow/flowers, town in background...), great art, great food. Mendocino is VERY reminiscent of a New England coastal town. Picket fences, flowers everywhere, a little white church with tall steeple... and a zillion shops. (Before Mendocino: Albion River Inn has incredible food and sunsets...) Just north of town is Russian Gulch State Park. Scenery, a secluded cove, nice short hikes among redwoods and ferns... a waterfall back in there if you have a bit more time. Continue north to Ft Bragg... just after the bridge turn right and go down (to N Harbor St) - a working fishery... some pretty good restaurants there w/ the catch of the day as well. Get back to 101 on Hwy 20. (Foods to get while out there: http://www.mendocinomustard.com/ and http://www.itsiticecream.com/ )

3) One more... and this one is NOT well known. Out of the way but worth it. Leave 101 to get to this spot which is the south end of where Mattole Rd hugs the coast on the way to Ferndale. From my link for several miles north is one of the most beautiful beach drives on the planet! You are driving AT beach level... truly incredible sights at sunset... and by the way Ferndale is a cute little town with lots of good B&B's.

Assuming you want to see the Avenue of the Giants in Humbolt Redwoods park (home of most of the tallest trees on the planet)... you can get to the above spot out the backside of the park, going through Honeydew and Petrolia. (You'll see truly rural CA out there!)

Enjoy! And bring back some Mendocino Mustard



Dec 10, 2016 at 10:14 PM
1      
2
       end






FM Forums | Trip Location Advice & Meet-ups | Join Upload & Sell

1      
2
       end
    
 

You are not logged in. Login or Register

Username     Reset password