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Archive 2016 · Ultra-fast normal: Samyang vs Speedmaster vs Focal reducer

  
 
Sr.Cordeiro
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p.2 #1 · p.2 #1 · Ultra-fast normal: Samyang vs Speedmaster vs Focal reducer


After some consideration and analizing my archives for photos with my former Lens Turbo II I'm pretty sure I want to scrath that option. The the performance can be tricky and it will just make me start accumulating legacy lenses again

I think I prefer to keep it simple and go all-native and with modern optics this time. Will have at first two Fujinons (the 35/2 and the 18-55mm zoom), a fast moderate wide (Samyang 21mm f/1.4 that is already on it's way) and the ultra-fast normal that I'm trying to decide.

The only legacy glass I'll be using are the Zuikos 18/3.5 and 24/2 on a Kipon T/S adapter for Fuji (wich I'm glad I didn't sold) for some sporadic work that requires UWA.

EDIT:
Forgot to mention my favourite manual lens to use on my current X-E2 that I will love to use on the X-Pro2 with OVF + digital overlay: the Voigtlander Ultron 28mm f/2. Gorgeous lens with wonderful handling and love just the FL on APS-C.



Nov 01, 2016 at 07:48 PM
Sr.Cordeiro
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p.2 #2 · p.2 #2 · Ultra-fast normal: Samyang vs Speedmaster vs Focal reducer


As an update:

Found one more review of the Samyang, a really good one from Focus Numerique (in french):
http://www.focus-numerique.com/test-3702/focale-fixe-samyang-35-mm-f12-ed-as-umc-cs-test-8.html

It has some RAW samples, was just playing with them on Lightroom, looking good so far. Too bad no f-stop info is recorded since there's no comunication between lens and camera.

Judging by their sharpness chart it compares well with the Fujinon 35/1.4, it even beats the Fuji in some areas like corner sharpness at wide apertures. Also comparing the chart with the one from the Sony FE 50/1.8, the Samyang beats it easily, and I thought the Sony was actually pretty good.

On the bokeh section of the review I was surprised by the difference between f/1.2 and f/1.4. It's very noticable, I think that this lens may deliver what I wanted: a bigger difference from what I get from my Fuji 35/2 compared to the Fujinon 35/1.4.



Nov 01, 2016 at 08:48 PM
gdanmitchell
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p.2 #3 · p.2 #3 · Ultra-fast normal: Samyang vs Speedmaster vs Focal reducer


Sr.Cordeiro wrote:
After... analizing my archives...


Ouch. That sounds painful... ;-)



Nov 01, 2016 at 09:14 PM
apsphoto
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p.2 #4 · p.2 #4 · Ultra-fast normal: Samyang vs Speedmaster vs Focal reducer


I did not post anything earlier because you were only interested in the Samyang 35mm, I have the 21mm and the Fuji 23mm, the Fuji is a much better lens, here is a post where I posted some quick information on it.
https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1451743/0#13742023

It is not a bad lens but the 23mm f1.4 is a really nice lens. I have not used the Samyang 35mm f1.4 as I already have the Fuji 35mm f1.4 and love it so I saw no reason for me to look into it.

Alan



Nov 01, 2016 at 10:13 PM
Sr.Cordeiro
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p.2 #5 · p.2 #5 · Ultra-fast normal: Samyang vs Speedmaster vs Focal reducer


gdanmitchell wrote:
Ouch. That sounds painful... ;-)


Luckly there were still some 2015 folders on my computer and Lightrooom library, so a trip to the external drives wasn't necessary



Nov 02, 2016 at 05:09 AM
Sr.Cordeiro
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p.2 #6 · p.2 #6 · Ultra-fast normal: Samyang vs Speedmaster vs Focal reducer


apsphoto wrote:
I did not post anything earlier because you were only interested in the Samyang 35mm, I have the 21mm and the Fuji 23mm, the Fuji is a much better lens, here is a post where I posted some quick information on it.
https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1451743/0#13742023

It is not a bad lens but the 23mm f1.4 is a really nice lens. I have not used the Samyang 35mm f1.4 as I already have the Fuji 35mm f1.4 and love it so I saw no reason for me to look into it.

Alan



Thanks for the comparison. Honnestly I was expecting the Fujinon 23/1.4 to be better, my choice to go with the 21/1.4 was mainly because of budget. The 21mm vs 23mm could also be a plus for me regarding landscapes, a good midpoint betweem a 18mm and a 23mm.

The corner resolution don't really concern me, the difference in real world will be negligible, and that's easy to confirm in your flickr samples. Something that I find a bit more concerning is the difference in exposure. To match the Fujinon I have to increase the exposure of the 21mm images by 1/2 stop and decrease the contrast quite a bit (that Samyang delivers a hell of a contrast). I wonder if the Fujinon has indeed better light transmission or if it's related to internal software corrections.



Nov 02, 2016 at 05:47 AM
apsphoto
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p.2 #7 · p.2 #7 · Ultra-fast normal: Samyang vs Speedmaster vs Focal reducer


The Samyang 21mm was not corrected for vignetting. I am sure that is what most of it is, and that is not uncommon in wide angle ultra fast lenses. The Fuji has lens distortion and vignette information in the EXIF and is applied, while the Samyang does not have this information and would have to apply it manually or generate a profile.

Alan



Nov 02, 2016 at 09:08 AM
gdanmitchell
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p.2 #8 · p.2 #8 · Ultra-fast normal: Samyang vs Speedmaster vs Focal reducer


Sr.Cordeiro wrote:
Luckly there were still some 2015 folders on my computer and Lightrooom library, so a trip to the external drives wasn't necessary


So, after you finished analizing, were you able to spend some time analyzing the images? ;-)



Nov 02, 2016 at 10:03 AM
Sr.Cordeiro
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p.2 #9 · p.2 #9 · Ultra-fast normal: Samyang vs Speedmaster vs Focal reducer


apsphoto wrote:
The Samyang 21mm was not corrected for vignetting. I am sure that is what most of it is, and that is not uncommon in wide angle ultra fast lenses. The Fuji has lens distortion and vignette information in the EXIF and is applied, while the Samyang does not have this information and would have to apply it manually or generate a profile.

Alan


That's what I suspect too, thanks. I'll stick with my purchase, the other option whitin my budget would be the new 23mm f/2 and for that I already have the X100. At least a 21mm f/1.4 is more different from that both in FL and maximum aperture.



Nov 02, 2016 at 10:15 AM
Sr.Cordeiro
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p.2 #10 · p.2 #10 · Ultra-fast normal: Samyang vs Speedmaster vs Focal reducer


gdanmitchell wrote:
So, after you finished analizing, were you able to spend some time analyzing the images? ;-)


Always sometimes I even discover good portfolio-level photos that for some strange reason I overlooked in the past.



Nov 02, 2016 at 10:18 AM
Sr.Cordeiro
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p.2 #11 · p.2 #11 · Ultra-fast normal: Samyang vs Speedmaster vs Focal reducer


To make an update:

I bought a second-hand Fujinon 35mm f/1.4
I know this is against my initial intention, but got a good deal, the lens was practically new since it was originally bought a couple of months ago, and the price was 350 eur.
For this price, with this size/weight and with AF it was a no-brainer really. And I have to say I'm very impressed with it's AF performance with the X-Pro2, it's like a new lens!

I was almost certain that I would end up trying the Samyang 35mm f/1.2. But I had a bad experience with the Samyang 21mm f/1.4. The performance was really bad at wide apertures, even with careful magnified focusing. The weight also bothered me more than what I was expecting. A let down that made me return it and reconsider my options, both in the 50mm and 35mm equiv. focal lenghts.

Now I have to decide if I keep the Fujinon 35mm f/2 WR (I feel tempted to sell it due to redundancy, but also really like that lens rendering very much), and wich moderate wide to buy (buy just the 23/1.4 or the compact 18mm f/2 + the rumored X100F).



Nov 17, 2016 at 11:29 AM
EvrydayGetaway
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p.2 #12 · p.2 #12 · Ultra-fast normal: Samyang vs Speedmaster vs Focal reducer


Sr.Cordeiro wrote:
To make an update:

I bought a second-hand Fujinon 35mm f/1.4
I know this is against my initial intention, but got a good deal, the lens was practically new since it was originally bought a couple of months ago, and the price was 350 eur.
For this price, with this size/weight and with AF it was a no-brainer really. And I have to say I'm very impressed with it's AF performance with the X-Pro2, it's like a new lens!

I was almost certain that I would end up trying the Samyang 35mm f/1.2. But I had a bad experience with the Samyang
...Show more

Sorry, I know I'm necro-ing this thread... but I wanted to throw in my $0.02 on the Samyang 21mm

I don't know if it comes down to bad copy variation or what, but it always surprises me when I see negative reviews of Samyang lenses from an IQ standpoint. I have several Samyang lenses and all of them are excellent, some of my top performing lenses, the 21mm included.

Here's some wide open shots from my 21mm on my X-Pro2

DSCF2940.jpg by Lucas, on Flickr
DSCF1216.jpg by Lucas, on Flickr
DSCF0588.jpg by Lucas, on Flickr

I don't use the lens much since I got an X100T, but I think it compares pretty well to my XF 35/1.4 (which is my favorite lens, you made a good choice picking one up).



Mar 25, 2017 at 01:25 AM
liggy
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p.2 #13 · p.2 #13 · Ultra-fast normal: Samyang vs Speedmaster vs Focal reducer


Sr.Cordeiro wrote:
To make an update:

I bought a second-hand Fujinon 35mm f/1.4
I know this is against my initial intention, but got a good deal, the lens was practically new since it was originally bought a couple of months ago, and the price was 350 eur.
For this price, with this size/weight and with AF it was a no-brainer really. And I have to say I'm very impressed with it's AF performance with the X-Pro2, it's like a new lens!

I was almost certain that I would end up trying the Samyang 35mm f/1.2. But I had a bad experience with the Samyang
...Show more

If you haven't tried the 16mm you should give that a look.



Mar 25, 2017 at 10:59 AM
Sr.Cordeiro
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p.2 #14 · p.2 #14 · Ultra-fast normal: Samyang vs Speedmaster vs Focal reducer


It may have been a bad copy. Your samples look good, I noticed the three of them are close focus shots, it makes me wonder if the performance is better at short distances. When I tried the 21mm I made more infinity landscape shots and night street photography at some distance. The IQ was kind of diffuse (for lack of a better term to describe it).

Having said that, I know Samyang makes good quality products, I've seen a lot of good work made with Samyang lenses, I just was either unlucky or my expectations were too high. In the end I spent some more cash and bought the Fujinon XF 23mm f/1.4 - a stellar lens, it might well be the best lens I had ever. Bought the 18/2 too, found one cheap second-hand. It may not be stuff of legends, but the small size and weight makes it a convenient lens to have on the bag.


EvrydayGetaway wrote:
Sorry, I know I'm necro-ing this thread... but I wanted to throw in my $0.02 on the Samyang 21mm

I don't know if it comes down to bad copy variation or what, but it always surprises me when I see negative reviews of Samyang lenses from an IQ standpoint. I have several Samyang lenses and all of them are excellent, some of my top performing lenses, the 21mm included.

I don't use the lens much since I got an X100T, but I think it compares pretty well to my XF 35/1.4 (which is my favorite lens, you made a good choice picking
...Show more




Mar 25, 2017 at 04:28 PM
Sr.Cordeiro
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p.2 #15 · p.2 #15 · Ultra-fast normal: Samyang vs Speedmaster vs Focal reducer


liggy wrote:
If you haven't tried the 16mm you should give that a look.


I had a conversation with another Fuji user some time ago that had the 23/1.4 and the 16/1.4. He said the 16mm was like a wider 23mm, similar in physical size, construction and both with stellar performance IQ wise.

If I used that focal lenght often I have no doubt the 16mm were on the top of my wishlist. But I would use a 16mm so rarely that it would be a waste for me to have that lens, in the ocasions when I need a wider FL and f/1.4 I might as well make some stitching with the 23/1.4 and save the money.




Mar 25, 2017 at 04:35 PM
pressureworld
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p.2 #16 · p.2 #16 · Ultra-fast normal: Samyang vs Speedmaster vs Focal reducer


Which lens did you decide to keep the 35/2 or the older faster 1.4?


Mar 28, 2017 at 09:58 PM
Sr.Cordeiro
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p.2 #17 · p.2 #17 · Ultra-fast normal: Samyang vs Speedmaster vs Focal reducer


pressureworld wrote:
Which lens did you decide to keep the 35/2 or the older faster 1.4?


Although I preferred the size, build, AF and rendering of the 35/2, I kept the older 35/1.4. It focuses good enough on the X-Pro2 and thinking rationally that extra stop is very useful for my night street photography.



Mar 29, 2017 at 03:28 AM
mdude85
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p.2 #18 · p.2 #18 · Ultra-fast normal: Samyang vs Speedmaster vs Focal reducer


A 35mm lens, even at f1.4, is rarely going to deliver the same subject isolation as a 50mm lens on a FF body at f1.8 or below. That's because the sensor crop does not fundamentally change the focal length of the lens, and a 35mm lens simply does not provide the same subject isolation as a 50mm lens.

If replicating the subject isolation is what you're after, then you'll need to get a lens in the 50mm focal length, such as the 56 f1.2 or 50 f2, and then adjust your shooting style (i.e. move farther away from your subject) to account for the sensor crop.



Mar 29, 2017 at 09:46 AM
taemo
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p.2 #19 · p.2 #19 · Ultra-fast normal: Samyang vs Speedmaster vs Focal reducer


^i was going to say this as well.
I love the 50mm focal length on FF but for some reason it doesn't work for me on Fuji.
I've owned 3 XF 35mm 1.4 and 1 XF 35mm 2 and they lasted only a couple of months.

if you want good subject isolation you may have to look into 50mm and longer lens.
you could start by buying a cheap adapter and using legacy 50s.



Mar 29, 2017 at 10:01 AM
Sr.Cordeiro
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p.2 #20 · p.2 #20 · Ultra-fast normal: Samyang vs Speedmaster vs Focal reducer


mdude85 wrote:
A 35mm lens, even at f1.4, is rarely going to deliver the same subject isolation as a 50mm lens on a FF body at f1.8 or below. That's because the sensor crop does not fundamentally change the focal length of the lens, and a 35mm lens simply does not provide the same subject isolation as a 50mm lens.

If replicating the subject isolation is what you're after, then you'll need to get a lens in the 50mm focal length, such as the 56 f1.2 or 50 f2, and then adjust your shooting style (i.e. move farther away from your subject) to
...Show more

Although this subject has already been discussed a lot, here it goes: a 35mm f/1.4 lens on a crop sensor will give the same subject isolation as a 50mm at around f/2.5 on FF (as a general rule and to simplify things people make the conversion with 1 full stop between APS-C and FF, but in my experience corroborated by other sources I've read it's just a bit more than that).

If I'm not mistaken, a 35/1.2 on APS-C will deliver an equivalent DOF of a 50/1.8 on FF. As a 35/0.95 will achieve the effect of a FF 50/1.4. So yes, you can achieve equivalent to FF subject isolation if the 35mm lens has an wide enough aperture.

Using a 50mm on a crop body will totally change the perspective of the final result, giving it a unnatural, "compressed", tele-look that I dislike.



Mar 29, 2017 at 10:12 AM
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