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25 Batis vs Zony 16-35
  
 
ecarlino
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p.4 #1 · p.4 #1 · 25 Batis vs Zony 16-35


GMPhotography wrote:
Btw if anyone wants me to explain Panos and Flat stitching better let me know and maybe start a thread on it. I done a lot of it with MF with Tech cams / DSLR style and they differ between 35 and tech cams with flat stitching techniques. Much different gearing to accomplish on each


in 35mm terms, are you saying that Pano is rotating on a tripod (in its purest sense, trying to keep the nodal point stationary) whereas when you say "Stitch" it would be like using a Tilt/Shift lens where the camera doesn't move (that was one technique some used to combine 3 shots: tilt up / no tilt / tilt down) - is "stitch" a phrase from MF (or was it "Shift" b/c you're stitching in both of your examples).



Oct 27, 2016 at 10:06 PM
Schlotkins
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p.4 #2 · p.4 #2 · 25 Batis vs Zony 16-35


GMPhotography wrote:
Btw if anyone wants me to explain Panos and Flat stitching better let me know and maybe start a thread on it. I done a lot of it with MF with Tech cams / DSLR style and they differ between 35 and tech cams with flat stitching techniques. Much different gearing to accomplish on each


I am interested in this as well. I want to do panos and specifically flat stitching but I'm looking for some tips/gear I need to do this.

Thanks in advance,
Chris



Oct 27, 2016 at 10:22 PM
GMPhotography
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p.4 #3 · p.4 #3 · 25 Batis vs Zony 16-35


Panos are using Nodal points and rotating camera sensor in a arc lets say. Flat stitch by definition is the sensor is always parallel or square to subject the sensor can move up, down and side to side but the sensor never creates a Arc it is always flat. The word stitch is confusing because both techniques you stitch the images together like a sewing machine lets say. Really it should be Pano and Flat Stitch by definition. If its not it should.

Using a T/S is like a flat stitch and here you use the lens from lets say 12mm left to 12mm right and several shots in between. So a T/S lens you are using the lens to flat stitch. Now there is a way to move the camera instead without shifting the lens. Here you use specialized Pano gear( they call it Pano) but RRS sells units that you attach the camera get it perfectly level and flat o subject than you start moving the camera on rails that can go up and down and side to side this creates a flat stitch. Okay that was 35mm

Medium Format you have a third option. You can do exactly like you did in 35mm given you are using a DSLR style camera both Pano and Flat stitch with that Pano gear i spoke of.

The 3rd option is a Tech cam which resembles a view camera back standard. Basically a Tech cam is a camera that holds a lens and a MF back on the back side of it but it has movements that go up and down and side to side and keeps the sensor Flat at all times. These are considered the best flat stitching machines out there as it is compact and very accurate. So Tech cams given a lens that has a very nice big images circle can go lets say left to right at a maximum of 25mm thats huge . So you can take a shot at 25mm left than 20,15,10,0 than right 5,10,15,20,25mm right. Thats a lot of images and a lot of overlap which you should really overlap by at least 20 percent of the frame for PS and other stitching programs to have elbow room to stitch images. These are amazing cameras and tech cam lenses by Rodenstock and Schneider are the best you can get your hands on, your digging really deep into you pockets here folks , these are typically 5 to 9 thousand dollar lenses so the quality is very high and with a back that has in excess of 100mpx look out your in the very top range of imaging. Now granted many of us do not need this but just wanted to let you understand how that all works out.

Now the biggest key to a lot of this is obviously very well mounted cameras that simply do not move when you don't want them too. Granted i am talking over and above doing things handheld . The other parts to this is technique and in MF going 25mm to the left and 25mm to the right I'm probably at the end of image circle and corrections need to be made in the form of LCC . What this is at every stop you take in shooting 25,20,15,10,5 in both directions you also need to take a translucent whit card shoot a image of it than in process make the corrections and apply those corrections to each frame it relates to. What you are doing is fixing vignetting and any color faults in tech step than you make those adjustments process it all out than once every images is exactly like the rest as far as corrections than send it to stitch in PS. Sounds very complicated and a lot of work. It is. But that is the absolute best technique and production of flat stitching. 35mm we have less problems with image circle stuff so MF is by far a lot more work. This is pretty involved and its best t watch this in action in the field and on computer but this is very high end photography techniques and i just want to explain it a little more. It is quite interesting the whole process of flat stitching. Panos cause another issue and that is finding the Nodal point in a lens and rotating the image arc around the Nodel point for better accuracy and such. I know you all saying hell Guy i just handheld and shoot in a arc and call it a day. Your not far off the mark but if you want more perfection here than tripods, nodal points and being level all play a bigger role.

I know it all sounds crazy but this is fun stuff.

The little dirty secret to all this is PS it makes up for a lot of problems in your shooting technique but don't tell anyone that, let them know how hard you worked your butt off to get a powerful image.

Its funny I say that , sometime I look at my portfolio and see I shot I may have spent 12 hours on getting it exactly perfect and money , people involved in the shot and all the hard work and than some Art Director passes over it and goes to something that took seconds to do. Its sounds disheartening but its not, its all a learning experience and your better off for it. This is very involved shooting but it is a gas when you get a winner.

Edited on Oct 27, 2016 at 11:16 PM · View previous versions



Oct 27, 2016 at 10:54 PM
GMPhotography
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p.4 #4 · p.4 #4 · 25 Batis vs Zony 16-35


Here is a link to RRS gear for Flat stitching and panos.

http://www.reallyrightstuff.com/Heads/Pano-Gimbal-Heads?_ga=1.169841249.1758844644.1470922147



Oct 27, 2016 at 11:05 PM
 

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ecarlino
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p.4 #5 · p.4 #5 · 25 Batis vs Zony 16-35


GMPhotography wrote:
The little dirty secret to all this is PS it makes up for a lot of problems in your shooting technique but don't tell anyone that, let them know how hard you worked your butt off to get a powerful image.


i think this is the most important point, especially to a forum of guys focused on Sony gear (i.e. no longer interested in cases of equipment).....

When i sold my Nikon gear, i also sold my Gigapan computerized & motorized pano head. It made taking enormous panos super easy (e.g. i have a 30 shot pano of Bryce Canyon).
But the software is so freaking good these days it really makes all the equipment nearly irrelevant for 90% (and that's just being safe, i really feel like saying 100%) of the situations.

As I mentioned, the pano i posted on a previous page was hand-held! Just be careful to pan on a level line so you don't end up throwing away lots of pixels in post (i.e. the stitched image is slanted so when you try to crop a rectangle you lose a lot of the image) and if you are going to attempt it hand held, make sure to pause when taking each shot rather than the temptation to just pan through the whole scene - good form is even more important. Do make some effort to try and rotate about some axis rather than swaying side to side - even though i'm downplaying the need to get excessive here, the more you can line things up helps the software do an even better job. Obviously, if you have your tripod with you then a standard head will be better than handheld. I know there are special ("expensive") tripod heads or adapters to make sure the nodal point is stationary when you rotate/pan - this helps the software do a better job, but frankly i think the benefits are marginal (vs a regular head).

For anyone who is new to this, i'd suggest getting a decent piece of software (if you don't already have the latest PS or LR, I like PTgui for $90) and start handheld or with the tripod head you already have. Use a lens between 25 and 55 (with as low distortion as possible). I found using a lens wider than 25 can introduce too much distortion at the corners/edges where the splicing is taking place (again, wider than 25 is certainly possible - anything is - but i'm just talking about giving the software as much of a head start as possible). See how good you can get it with just those tools before even considering any specialty items.



Oct 28, 2016 at 03:03 AM
GMPhotography
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p.4 #6 · p.4 #6 · 25 Batis vs Zony 16-35


Well landscape type images at infinity distances are the easiest , when you start adding vertical lines and closer distance shots in the midrange it gets more critical with technique. I honestly don't like to teach the short cuts or paths to lessor quality. But this comes from me that is very critical of technique , gear and absolute trying to do everything in camera first. I tend to be more old school as I learned with film, no Polaroids and much lessor high quality digital imaging of the past , so you train yourself to get it right in the camera. I guess I just don't want to see folks getting sloppy here so I'll promote it a little more old school if you will.


But I certainly don't want to scare anyone either thinking they need to spend 60 grand . Even just a nice focusing rail to do flat stitching works really well. I have one I spent 60 dollars on and I can use it also for Pano shots and get the Nodal point set. So it can do both techniques.



Oct 28, 2016 at 03:32 AM
ecarlino
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p.4 #7 · p.4 #7 · 25 Batis vs Zony 16-35


there's no doubt, if you can help the software out by using a tripod with a standard head, that will improve the outcome (let's say from 7.5/10 handheld to a 9/10 result). but not only are handheld panos possible, the results can be quite good in many situations (with practice). one technique that is unlikely to work handheld is an HDR Pano - in which case a tripod is going to be required.

if anyone feels compelled to spend a few hundred bucks (and i'd say that is the MAX necessary to get 9.8/10 quality results - realizing that, as with all of this nonsense, the sky is the limit as far as what you CAN spend) - i used to use Nodal Ninja arms and rotators that are extremely easy to use and well made. For example, something like this, or this




Oct 28, 2016 at 04:12 AM
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