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Archive 2016 · 25 Batis vs Zony 16-35
  
 
psmichael
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · 25 Batis vs Zony 16-35


Hey everyone. I have read many threads about this but I need more assurance.

I rarely shoot below 35 but need one for travel needs. I do shoot in many low-lit spaces.
Should I get the 25 Batis or the 16-35 for flexibility?



Oct 26, 2016 at 10:54 AM
jonrock
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · 25 Batis vs Zony 16-35


I would probably go with 16-35 for flexibility. However, if you need a smaller lens and don't shoot that often below 25mm, I would probably pick up the 25 batis.


Oct 26, 2016 at 10:57 AM
psmichael
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · 25 Batis vs Zony 16-35


jonrock wrote:
I would probably go with 16-35 for flexibility. However, if you need a smaller lens and don't shoot that often below 25mm, I would probably pick up the 25 batis.


Yes. But I am lusting over the f/2 by the batis. Is the 25 wide enough for trips to Sistine Chapel and Pantheon?



Oct 26, 2016 at 11:00 AM
jharter
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · 25 Batis vs Zony 16-35


I went through the same thing. I could not tell the difference between photos shot on either lens at ~25 mm at typical working apertures (>5.6 for me).

F2 is nice but so is 16 mm for interiors and some landscapes. For building interiors I much prefer the versatility of the zoom.



Oct 26, 2016 at 11:34 AM
Frogfish
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · 25 Batis vs Zony 16-35


If it's for cathedral interiors then the 16-35 without a doubt. The 25mm will be nowhere near wide enough. I'm just back from Florence/Siena/Pisa where the Loxia 21mm was easily my most used lens and even the Voigtlander 15mm got a decent workout.

The 16-35 + something around 100 and a fast fifty will satisfy 99% of your requirements in that type of environment / city.



Oct 26, 2016 at 11:51 AM
scrappydog
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · 25 Batis vs Zony 16-35



psmichael wrote:
Yes. But I am lusting over the f/2 by the batis. Is the 25 wide enough for trips to Sistine Chapel and Pantheon?


I would want a fast, wider lens for these locations. The Sistene Chapel is huge, but still the wider lens is better suited for it IMO. YMMV. One option is to rent a fast ultra-wide lens for the trip.



Oct 26, 2016 at 11:59 AM
Parariss
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · 25 Batis vs Zony 16-35



psmichael wrote:
Yes. But I am lusting over the f/2 by the batis. Is the 25 wide enough for trips to Sistine Chapel and Pantheon?


Been to both of those places but didn't own an ILC at the time. I would say no -- to both, but especially the Sistine - it's long, but the ceiling isn't very high, so I'm not sure anything is really going to work in there if you're trying to capture to full majesty of the ceiling (and it's so crowded it's a zoo in there or at least it was when I went). [Also, double check, but I'm not sure they even allow photos at all in there. Somewhat more likely that they do in the pantheon (most of the artwork is stone and therefore stable, plus I think it's owned by the state rather than the Vatican), but check that, too.] The pantheon ceiling is taller and the room footprint smaller, but purely from memory I still doubt 25mm quite does it.

I assume your not buying a lens only for two specific buildings. I travel and photo a lot of churches and mosques. In general, I find I want ~15mm for those at least somewhere inside. But, they're all different, so I prefer a zoom -- all these focal lengths distort the image, and I'd rather use the most natural-looking focal length possible (i.e. the longest wide angle focal length that will do the job rather than crop). Sometimes 15mm is still not quite wide enough, but it usually is (only just). Personally, I'd find it hard to travel to so many different buildings with only one prime for WA. Alternatively, you can stitch, but sometimes moving crowds make that harder, and the conventional wisdom is not to try to stitch images from really wide focal lengths, so if you go that route you're probably not using any of these lenses.

As for the aperture, more capability is always better, of course. But, for me the benefits of a brighter lens seem somewhat less here than at longer focal lengths. At these focal lengths, no lenses offer what could fairly be described as a "shallow" depth of field, so the benefit of the wider aperture mostly boils down to low light benefits. The brighter lens does let you lower your ISO. How useful that is depends on how dark your particular churches get and what camera you have -- the 7s and 7rii handle high ISO so well, maybe it's just easier to bump the ISO than try to get a stop or two more from your lens. Also, sometimes you can't get the additional brightness out of the lens just because it's theoretically capable of it -- how much do you have to stop the lens down to get it fully sharp across all parts of the image (sometimes including both really close foreground elements and high, relatively distant ceilings)? It depends on the specific lens and the specific scene and how much penalty your particular camera carries for high ISO. The wider aperture may be more helpful for low light landscapes, though that's not what your asked about (or astro).

FWIW, I find a wide angle zoom to be a really fun lens to travel with.

Too many words, sorry -- hope you find something useful.



Oct 26, 2016 at 12:26 PM
MikeEvangelist
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · 25 Batis vs Zony 16-35


psmichael wrote:
Is the 25 wide enough for trips to Sistine Chapel and Pantheon?


As Parariss mentioned, the Sistine Chapel does not allow photography (at least when I was there, four years ago).

That said, for many of the spectacular interiors and places in Italy, the flexibility of the wide zoom will be a big plus.

Here's a couple old shots of the Pantheon, before I had a good selection of lenses. (I can hardly wait to get back there, now that I've got more respectable gear.)






With NEX-7 - 18mm (27mm equivalent)







With Leica M9 - 28mm




Oct 26, 2016 at 01:23 PM
ecarlino
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · 25 Batis vs Zony 16-35


I'd suggest the batis 18 for interiors.
Photography inside of the Sistine Chapel is "not allowed" but 70% of the people had their cell phone out, 10% had cameras and 20% respected the 'rule'. Just be somewhat respectful and be quick about it. I had a few guards follow me around after i grabbed a few snaps (somewhat ridiculous given so many were openly taking photos w/ their phone). Every 5 minutes a voice announced "quiet please and no photos".

Joshua had the Batis 25 with him earlier this year before the Batis 18 was available and has some amazing shots he stitched together if you search for his trip reports from Rome.

For me, f/4 isn't fast enough for dimly lit interiors (so i'm not a fan of the 16-35).

Here are two with the B18:
http://www.ecarlino.net/Italy_May2016/BestOf/_DSC5646.jpg
http://www.ecarlino.net/Italy_May2016/BestOf/_DSC5679.jpg


Edited on Oct 26, 2016 at 04:22 PM · View previous versions



Oct 26, 2016 at 01:37 PM
trogdon
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · 25 Batis vs Zony 16-35


Keep in mind the 16-35 has image stabilization that works quite well, so you can get away with handholding much lower shutter speeds than with the batis, and for the types of interiors you mention the lower shutter speed will work since your subject isn't moving. I find because of this, the 16-35 is a pretty capable low light lens handheld


Oct 26, 2016 at 02:22 PM
 

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ecarlino
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · 25 Batis vs Zony 16-35


trogdon wrote:
Keep in mind the 16-35 has image stabilization that works quite well, so you can get away with handholding much lower shutter speeds than with the batis, and for the types of interiors you mention the lower shutter speed will work since your subject isn't moving. I find because of this, the 16-35 is a pretty capable low light lens handheld


with the a7r2, i don't have a preference for where the stabilization is (camera vs lens) so the stabilization in the 16-35 is not an advantage for me. the shot i posted above from the Sistine Chapel was held chest high with my arms out using the LCD to be somewhat inconspicuous - so not good form at all (from a solid bracing perspective).



Oct 26, 2016 at 02:23 PM
ke3vg
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · 25 Batis vs Zony 16-35


If you have option, Zeiss Batis 18mm is the best sharp lens I have been using. The sony 16-35MM F4 is also , very sharp and I rarely detect the difference when it comes to sharpness of the lenses.


Oct 26, 2016 at 02:30 PM
Parariss
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · 25 Batis vs Zony 16-35


I should have held my post and waited for the definitive word from the many great people on this forum!

I think it's abundantly clear that the best lens would be the Loxia 14.
Damn hard to find one, tho!



Oct 26, 2016 at 02:44 PM
philber
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · 25 Batis vs Zony 16-35


Tokina have announced a 20mm f:2.0 which is one of the widest lenses with that very fast aperture. Haven't seen pictures yet, but Tokina are well regarded for their WAs. Also, rumour has it that Sony will announce any time soon a 16-35mm GM lens, which should be f:2.8. Spoiled for choice we are...


Oct 26, 2016 at 03:03 PM
sebbe
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · 25 Batis vs Zony 16-35


psmichael wrote:
Hey everyone. I have read many threads about this but I need more assurance.

I rarely shoot below 35 but need one for travel needs. I do shoot in many low-lit spaces.
Should I get the 25 Batis or the 16-35 for flexibility?


For wide angle lenses I would give you these advices:

  1. Take the focal length you like and not the one you may need for a single situation.
  2. If you go wide, you never can go too wide.
  3. If you need a wider lens, just stitch several pictures of the lens you have.


Let's explain this set.
1: If you see the whole world when you look through the viewfinder, this can be very confusing. Just a small step to the left and the picture looks completely different. So it's better to choose a focal length that you like to work with.
2: ecarlinos pictures are wonderful (thanks for showing them), but even it's 18mm, the focal length is still not wide enough. There is always a situation where you will need a wider lens than you already have.
3: stitching a panorama in post is very easy. First take the shot you are pleased the most (just if something went wrong with the panorama shots). Then shoot several handhelded pictures and merge them later. Be aware that the lens should be the pivotal point (not the camera body and not you).

The following picture is a 220° panorama I made last weekend. These are 7 shots with a voigtländer 12/5.6. It takes me less than 15 seconds to take them. Photoshop merged it for me just in about the same time to a perfect result.


For a 8191x2098 version: Rothorn Panorama (or just zoom in in the picture above)

Cheers, seb

Edit: I can recommend the Sony16-35/4, Sony28/2, Loxia21/2.8, Voigtländer 12/5.6. Never touched the Batis25/2, Batis18/2.8 and the Voigtländer 15/4.5 but they look equivalent in quality to the others (with different focal lengths).



Oct 26, 2016 at 03:18 PM
psmichael
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · 25 Batis vs Zony 16-35


Sebbe. That is magnificent.


Oct 26, 2016 at 04:10 PM
psmichael
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · 25 Batis vs Zony 16-35


Amazing! I want to take pictures just like those. Will the 25 cut it?


Oct 26, 2016 at 04:12 PM
GMPhotography
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · 25 Batis vs Zony 16-35


Parariss wrote:
I should have held my post and waited for the definitive word from the many great people on this forum!

I think it's abundantly clear that the best lens would be the Loxia 14.
Damn hard to find one, tho!


Now your talking. Lol



Oct 26, 2016 at 04:29 PM
ecarlino
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · 25 Batis vs Zony 16-35


I'd agree with Seb on the merits of stitching. My personal preference is not to go wider than 18mm as I just am not a fan of the angular distortion beyond 16mm that tends to overwhelm the image (in the hands of someone competent, which i am not, it sometimes looks great, but there are far too many shots posted recently, IMHO, with the availability of new UWA lenses that I do not enjoy - they tend to be in the vein of 'artsy' similar to a misuse of ultra-thin-DoF that some prefer, it's just not my thing most of the time). But stitching is fast and easy and if angle-of-view is something you're interested in, can be achieved with any focal length. Here's a shot taken with the 55/1.8 - i printed it 12.5 feet long on 44 inch roll paper and hung in my guest suite living room.

Click here for full size: 27,000 by 7,281

http://www.ecarlino.net/Italy_May2016/Modica/ModicaSicily_sml.jpg


Edited on Oct 27, 2016 at 03:20 PM · View previous versions



Oct 26, 2016 at 04:51 PM
sebbe
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · 25 Batis vs Zony 16-35


ecarlino wrote:
...My personal preference is not to go wider than 18mm ...


Mine is 21mm. The 12 is just a fun lens to me.

Hah! I found Wally on your pic!



Oct 26, 2016 at 05:06 PM
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