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1Dx MkII sensor cleaning - LensRental email.
  
 
Vancouver47
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · 1Dx MkII sensor cleaning - LensRental email.


Several days ago it occurred to me that there are few with the credibility of LensRental to comment on the 1Dx MkII sensor cleaning issue, so I emailed LensRental. I was very pleased to receive Joe Miller's email so promptly. Below is Joe Miller's response with permission:


Joey Miller, Oct 24, 11:28 AM CDT:
Blake,

We have had the 1DX2 in stock for 5 months now, and we clean those sensors every single day before they ship out. We haven't changed our cleaning routines at all, and we have had no issues with scratched sensors. We have a ridiculous amount of 5D4s in stock, and we clean dozens of them every day for rentals, and we've had no issues with them in them month we've had them. I don't know how these rumors start, but they hold no weight. There is nothing especially delicate about the new Canon sensors. They aren't more dust prone, either. The higher resolution of the 5D4 will show things more readily, including dust and lens flaws, something 5DS and 5DSR users should already be familiar with. Feel free to quash anything like that forum post with a copy of this email, if you like. There is no official word from Canon about anything of the sort. At PhotoPlus last week, I observed CPS cleaning sensors, and they weren't doing anything special, either.

Joey
LensRentals.com
901-754-9100

--------------------------------
I received similar comments from CPS Canada a few weeks ago.



Oct 24, 2016 at 11:39 PM
arbitrage
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · 1Dx MkII sensor cleaning - LensRental email.


Thanks for the info which is good to hear. Although many a sane person would have realized that if Canon had changed the covering of the sensor to some delicate material they would have made a very big point about telling customers as I'm sure they are well aware that a lot of customers (especially those buying 1dx2 and 5D4) clean their sensors themselves.

I found the couple threads about this "issue" to be entertaining but never once did it make me think twice about cleaning my 1DX2 like I've always done.



Oct 24, 2016 at 11:44 PM
dtolios
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · 1Dx MkII sensor cleaning - LensRental email.


Cleaning the sensor can be a delicate task, because you might end up with a dirtier result, or just more dust from the overall surface to the corners etc...That said...

...Scratching the glass on the sensor is not much easier than scratching the glass screen on your phone, or the glass pane on your windows...those things can sustain rubs against car keys, vigorous scrubbing etc.

Have you ever tried to do so with a cotton swab, a non metal / non abrasive brush or a cleaning cloth?
Do you think it is even possible to do with your fingernails?

Not that you should intentionally try to do so, but...its nearly impossible....the hardness rating of any type of glass is simply higher than those materials...the probability of scratching the sensor has been an exaggerated urban myth since day 1 of interchangeable lens digital cameras.

Damaging the mirror assembly, scratching the focusing screen or the shutter even while trying to clean the sensor, is far more probable if you are remotely as clumsy to "threaten" the sensor, but even then, you will probably fail unless you are using metal / abrasive materials.

Edited on Oct 25, 2016 at 12:04 AM · View previous versions



Oct 24, 2016 at 11:56 PM
riokid
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · 1Dx MkII sensor cleaning - LensRental email.


The bigger problem is when dust gets under the low-pass filter. CPS diagnosed the 5DsR that I was buying to have such an issue. They do not even cover it as a warranty repair and wanted $972


Oct 25, 2016 at 12:03 AM
dtolios
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · 1Dx MkII sensor cleaning - LensRental email.


riokid wrote:
The bigger problem is when dust gets under the low-pass filter. CPS diagnosed the 5DsR that I was buying to have such an issue. They do not even cover it as a warranty repair and wanted $972


Woot...that sounds more like a complete sensor assembly replacement cost...doubt they would open / separate the existing assembly and try to clean it...




Oct 25, 2016 at 12:06 AM
riokid
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · 1Dx MkII sensor cleaning - LensRental email.


dtolios wrote:
Woot...that sounds more like a complete sensor assembly replacement cost...doubt they would open / separate the existing assembly and try to clean it...



Yes, that was a sensor assembly replacement



Oct 25, 2016 at 12:29 AM
therealthings
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · 1Dx MkII sensor cleaning - LensRental email.


Funny how people respond reading a reply from lensrentals, while i had the issue in my hands. Not just 'read' something. Then CPS themselves said "this is not the first, and we are on it". I'm happy for those that clean their sensors at lensrentals and i hope they keep their promises. If everyone starts cleaning their sensors and there will be no more issues shared here i can claim that CPS europe told me lies, their official cleaning centres in the Netherlands and Germany are not qualified to clean sensors, and that similar issues shared by others can be called nonsense...


Oct 25, 2016 at 06:50 AM
PV Hiker
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · 1Dx MkII sensor cleaning - LensRental email.


Well that all makes perfect sense. If there was a real problem with sensor cleaning of the 1Dx mkII, then I think Canon would have been up front with notifications world wide. Thanks for the comments from LensRentals.


Oct 25, 2016 at 04:32 PM
Vancouver47
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · 1Dx MkII sensor cleaning - LensRental email.


therealthings wrote:
Funny how people respond reading a reply from lensrentals, while i had the issue in my hands. Not just 'read' something. Then CPS themselves said "this is not the first, and we are on it". I'm happy for those that clean their sensors at lensrentals and i hope they keep their promises. If everyone starts cleaning their sensors and there will be no more issues shared here i can claim that CPS europe told me lies, their official cleaning centres in the Netherlands and Germany are not qualified to clean sensors, and that similar issues shared by others can be
...Show more

I have to say that your Germany vs Holland CPS cleaning the 1Dx2 sensor still has me puzzled. I do not doubt your comments for one second. I just find them incongruous. I was unsure of CPS Canada's claim there was nothing to worry about, but they would not comment further.

LensRental was the obvious choice for confirmation since they clean all their rentals themselves.

All I can say is the European CPS comments just don't make sense in view of Canon Canada CPS and Joey from LensRental comments. Clearly neither are having the slightest problems with cleaning the 1Dx2 sensor.

I cannot believe the European sensors are different.



Oct 25, 2016 at 07:30 PM
therealthings
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · 1Dx MkII sensor cleaning - LensRental email.


Vancouver47 wrote:
I have to say that your Germany vs Holland CPS cleaning the 1Dx2 sensor still has me puzzled. I do not doubt your comments for one second. I just find them incongruous. I was unsure of CPS Canada's claim there was nothing to worry about, but they would not comment further.

LensRental was the obvious choice for confirmation since they clean all their rentals themselves.

All I can say is the European CPS comments just don't make sense in view of Canon Canada CPS and Joey from LensRental comments. Clearly neither are having the slightest problems with cleaning the 1Dx2 sensor.

I cannot
...Show more

I cannot believe it either. But i know what i experienced though. The difference might be dust vs oil? I might have had oil specks on the sensor that could not be cleaned and lensrentals is talking about dust?

And about that special machine, today i asked another Canon rep how they clean sensors in Germany (at the Canon Regional Competence Center), and he also came with the 'machine' story. I did not invent this idea... It seems that they used the same machine at the olympics in Rio, which should do a better job than a human being, but after my cleaning job i am having my doubts. Canon Canada may not be aware of this thing, but it seems to exist.

Again, i'm happy to read that there are positive stories. I hope the copy i have now stays speck free for a while and local repair centres are going to do a better job at cleaning.



Oct 25, 2016 at 07:48 PM
 

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ggreene
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · 1Dx MkII sensor cleaning - LensRental email.


Somewhat off topic, but from reading many, many threads over the years on different forums I would say that people sometimes have way to high of expectations on how clean a sensor should stay. For ILC's it's just the nature of the beast. They are exposed to air with dust every lens change and with the mirror flapping back and forth it's just going to move that dust around.

Go into the ML forums and they deal with it as well and they have no mirror.

Cleaning the sensor is just something you have to deal with. I can clean my 1DX tonight and it will probably have dust in it the next day after a game.



Oct 25, 2016 at 10:27 PM
RCicala
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · 1Dx MkII sensor cleaning - LensRental email.


I think that most likely we are talking about two different issues. One is dust on top of the sensor, which doesn't seem to be much different in cleaning than any other camera. The other is dust within the layers of the sensor assembly which can't be cleaned by any 'home' methods - it requires either sensor disassembly or replacement. The latter is rare but happens and when it does happen it often (but not always) is a 'batch' of sensors because it can be a manufacturing issue.

The other possibility is that it is more difficult to clean the metric-sized dust particles seen in the EU, while the the 'fraction of inch' sized dust particles seen in the US are easier to get rid of. More research will be required.




Oct 26, 2016 at 12:53 PM
Vancouver47
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · 1Dx MkII sensor cleaning - LensRental email.


RCicala wrote:
issue.

The other possibility is that it is more difficult to clean the metric-sized dust particles seen in the EU, while the the 'fraction of inch' sized dust particles seen in the US are easier to get rid of. More research will be required.



We have metric size dust here in Canada as well

One thing that seems apparent is no one uses a "Machine" to clean sensors in North America, while it seems they do in Europe. That may be the source of the warnings there.



Oct 26, 2016 at 01:27 PM
Lan11
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · 1Dx MkII sensor cleaning - LensRental email.


I find sensor cleaning frustrating and time wasteful. The 1Dx2 sensor gets dirty much quicker than the 1Dx or 5D… and far more difficult to clean. My first reaction was to check the new battery voltage and to my surprise it is 0.3V lower. Not much, but it shouldn’t make the 1Dx2 a better dust magnet. So, the cause is elsewhere, but the problem exists and is real. I wonder why nobody offered a better way to remove dust except a primitive white brush which sells for a small fortune. The Olympus is amazingly resistant to dust. They were the first to recognized the problem, long before competition did, and possibly own a patent for the best sensor dust protection. Canon should spend some R&D $$$ and offer a better solution than blowing the air at the sensor which is as ridiculous as ineffective.


Oct 26, 2016 at 01:59 PM
arbitrage
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · 1Dx MkII sensor cleaning - LensRental email.


Lan11 wrote:
I find sensor cleaning frustrating and time wasteful. The 1Dx2 sensor gets dirty much quicker than the 1Dx or 5D… and far more difficult to clean. My first reaction was to check the new battery voltage and to my surprise it is 0.3V lower. Not much, but it shouldn’t make the 1Dx2 a better dust magnet. So, the cause is elsewhere, but the problem exists and is real. I wonder why nobody offered a better way to remove dust except a primitive white brush which sells for a small fortune. The Olympus is amazingly resistant to dust. They were the
...Show more

And yet my experience is the exact opposite. My 1DX2 has remained virtually spotless and my 1DX was a mess for at least 6 months before things settled down.



Oct 26, 2016 at 02:08 PM
Vancouver47
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · 1Dx MkII sensor cleaning - LensRental email.


arbitrage wrote:
And yet my experience is the exact opposite. My 1DX2 has remained virtually spotless and my 1DX was a mess for at least 6 months before things settled down.


My experience is exactly the opposite. My 1DxII has hundreds of small dust particle while my 7DII virtually none. I change lenses in the same environment for both bodies. My 1Dx had more than the 7DII but nothing like the 1DxII.

I clean all with a static brush.



Oct 26, 2016 at 02:28 PM
arbitrage
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · 1Dx MkII sensor cleaning - LensRental email.


Vancouver47 wrote:
My experience is exactly the opposite. My 1DxII has hundreds of small dust particle while my 7DII virtually none. I change lenses in the same environment for both bodies. My 1Dx had more than the 7DII but nothing like the 1DxII.

I clean all with a static brush.


Which is my point that there is no inherent 1DX2 issue. It has been an issue on 1 series cameras for ever in different degrees based on likely random amounts of lubricant used in assembly. My 1D4 is a real mess. In comparison my 5D3, 5DSR and 7D2 did fairly well throughout their use. I'm just happy my 1DX2 isn't as bad as my previous 1DX and 1D4.



Oct 26, 2016 at 02:39 PM
ggreene
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · 1Dx MkII sensor cleaning - LensRental email.


So far I would say my 1DX2 is really no different then my 1DX. At f11 I see a few blobs but given I've already got 100K+ shots on it that really is not much to complain about.

I started shooting digital in 2003 and not one body (10D, 1D2, 1D4, 1DX, 1DX2) is capable of staying clean for that long. Granted I'm terrible at shutting off the camera between lens changes.

I don't really have much use for F8 and beyond anyways.



Oct 26, 2016 at 05:35 PM
TeamSpeed
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · 1Dx MkII sensor cleaning - LensRental email.


Person A goes from point X to point Y via the tried and true method of walking.

Person B goes from point X to point Y using a machine (vehicle).

Both get the job done, but are done differently.

Perhaps that is what is going on across international areas of Canon in the arena of equipment cleaning?

I could see how somebody over in the European community working at Canon would make an assumption that now because a machine is being used, the sensor must be different and more delicate, but that would be an invalid assumption here.



Oct 26, 2016 at 05:48 PM
therealthings
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · 1Dx MkII sensor cleaning - LensRental email.


Forget the machine, CPS NL is talking BS. Gust (a member here) just told me he went to Germany to have his sensor cleaned and they did it manually. It seems that CPS doesn't know what they are talking about and i took everything they said for truth. Seems i have to be cautious on what to believe what canon tells me.

Fact stays that i clearly had issues with oil on my sensor, and Gust has still issues with debris coming from inside his housing onto the sensor. Let's hope it's just a batch and we can all let this thing rest soon.



Oct 26, 2016 at 05:57 PM
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