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Archive 2016 · DOF of crop sensors (Fuji XT-2 vs Nikon D750)

  
 
heikoM
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p.2 #1 · p.2 #1 · DOF of crop sensors (Fuji XT-2 vs Nikon D750)


BSPhotog wrote:
Something not evaluated here is the facial expressions of the model. In the first photo, she looks amicable and slightly impressed (probably by your large sensor). In the second photo, she looks skeptical of your tiny little toy camera with its itty bitty sensor. Seems clear to me.



Sheīs my wife and in the first shot she was happy to see me, in the second already bored and tired, as I was talking about camera stuff...


heiko



Oct 25, 2016 at 01:36 AM
heikoM
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p.2 #2 · p.2 #2 · DOF of crop sensors (Fuji XT-2 vs Nikon D750)


flash wrote:
Assuming a "crop" of 1.5x

23mm lens is close to 34.5mm FOV, assuming the same 3:2 ratio.

f2.0 on APSC is f3.0 on 35mm (just under 1.3 stops). To be really nerdy a stop is a factor of 1.4 (start at 1 and multiply by 1.4 for each stop.) 1.5 is marginally more than 1 stop. In comparison the 23mm f1.4 Fuji (which I prefer as an overall lens to the f2) would look similar to f2.1 on 35mm.

Not to mention what Tony said about different sensor sizes. Plus different lens designs, the focus point within the DOF, the way each lens
...Show more


Hi Gordon,

thank you for your input. Appreciate it.

I find the 23/1.4 is worse in AF performance that is why I chose the 23/2.0 (which is great in AF).

The moving was just tiny and I donīt think it makes a big difference here. If I find the time tonight, I will reshoot it from a tripod.


aaand, I donīt like how your 23/1.4 renders the background in your shot. But a very beautiful bride (o:



heiko



Oct 25, 2016 at 01:47 AM
heikoM
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p.2 #3 · p.2 #3 · DOF of crop sensors (Fuji XT-2 vs Nikon D750)


You know me, normally I donīt care much about image quality and rendering and stuff like this. I always put usability, AF speed and size above that. In many images the optical quality of a lens will not make a big difference at all.

But this is kind of ugly to my eyes. Itīs wore then the bokeh of the Nikon 35/2.0D and that says something.


heiko



Oct 25, 2016 at 01:53 AM
flash
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p.2 #4 · p.2 #4 · DOF of crop sensors (Fuji XT-2 vs Nikon D750)


heikoM wrote:
aaand, I donīt like how your 23/1.4 renders the background in your shot. But a very beautiful bride (o:

heiko


Completely valid. I don't know about Germany but here it's really hard to try out different systems/cameras/lenses by rental or trial. There's lots of times I don't like a perfectly capable piece of gear, for no good reason. But it's hard without having to buy/sell tons of stuff.

Gordon



Oct 25, 2016 at 02:01 AM
heikoM
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p.2 #5 · p.2 #5 · DOF of crop sensors (Fuji XT-2 vs Nikon D750)


flash wrote:
Completely valid. I don't know about Germany but here it's really hard to try out different systems/cameras/lenses by rental or trial. There's lots of times I don't like a perfectly capable piece of gear, for no good reason. But it's hard without having to buy/sell tons of stuff.

Gordon



same here, I find rental too expensive. But in the end I loose quite a bit by bying/selling.
2 Sony A6300 just left me...

I am frustrated, still looking for the ideal campground. many cameras are nearly there, but not quite. Oh man, I am a nerd )0:


heiko



Oct 25, 2016 at 02:48 AM
Holger
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p.2 #6 · p.2 #6 · DOF of crop sensors (Fuji XT-2 vs Nikon D750)


heikoM wrote:
same here, I find rental too expensive. But in the end I loose quite a bit by bying/selling.
2 Sony A6300 just left me...

I am frustrated, still looking for the ideal campground. many cameras are nearly there, but not quite. Oh man, I am a nerd )0:

heiko


Nikon D750 for weddings, with 1.8g lenses makes for a light package with very fase AF and great IQ. For me the size is perfect and you have all the flash options for the dance floor stuff. We combine it with A7rii, as the IQ delivered by the 1.4 lenses is amazing, especially in low light.



Oct 25, 2016 at 05:35 AM
heikoM
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p.2 #7 · p.2 #7 · DOF of crop sensors (Fuji XT-2 vs Nikon D750)


Holger wrote:
Nikon D750 for weddings, with 1.8g lenses makes for a light package with very fase AF and great IQ. For me the size is perfect and you have all the flash options for the dance floor stuff. We combine it with A7rii, as the IQ delivered by the 1.4 lenses is amazing, especially in low light.



Hi Holger,

havenīt seen you around here much, yet. Nice you are here.

Where do you come from in G?


We have a park of D750s, too, but, you know, they are uninspiring. The actually bore me to death...


heiko



Oct 25, 2016 at 05:51 AM
Holger
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p.2 #8 · p.2 #8 · DOF of crop sensors (Fuji XT-2 vs Nikon D750)


heikoM wrote:
Hi Holger,

havenīt seen you around here much, yet. Nice you are here.

Where do you come from in G?

We have a park of D750s, too, but, you know, they are uninspiring. The actually bore me to death...

heiko


We are from the central part of Germany, look here: www.brigitte-foysi.de .
The D750s are solid and perform flawlessly. Focus is great in whatever light situation, so I see them as tools to get the job done. The fun part is using the A7rii.




Oct 25, 2016 at 06:41 AM
LeeSimms
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p.2 #9 · p.2 #9 · DOF of crop sensors (Fuji XT-2 vs Nikon D750)


HeikoM, maybe its not the D750 that bores you to death — it's the 14 hour weddings you shoot :-)


Oct 25, 2016 at 09:08 AM
heikoM
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p.2 #10 · p.2 #10 · DOF of crop sensors (Fuji XT-2 vs Nikon D750)


LeeSimms wrote:
HeikoM, maybe its not the D750 that bores you to death — it's the 14 hour weddings you shoot :-)


Haha (0:


if I shoot my M9 at these weddings there is no time to get bored.

I am covered in cold-sweat "do I get it, do I get it?"


heiko



Oct 25, 2016 at 02:09 PM
flash
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p.2 #11 · p.2 #11 · DOF of crop sensors (Fuji XT-2 vs Nikon D750)


heikoM wrote:
Haha (0:

if I shoot my M9 at these weddings there is no time to get bored.

I am covered in cold-sweat "do I get it, do I get it?"

heiko


That's why I love my SL. Leica files and handling without any guess work. Even with a Noctilux.

Had to sell the 15y/o to afford it. I hope she's happy........

Gordon



Oct 25, 2016 at 02:52 PM
MRomine
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p.2 #12 · p.2 #12 · DOF of crop sensors (Fuji XT-2 vs Nikon D750)


flash wrote:
Had to sell the 15y/o to afford it. I hope she's happy........

Gordon


You can see her on weekends, right?



Oct 26, 2016 at 09:07 AM
ahaug
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p.2 #13 · p.2 #13 · DOF of crop sensors (Fuji XT-2 vs Nikon D750)


I think that the nikon auto white balance picked up the light that is more on the left side of her face which is bluer / neutral and the mixed lighting was more yellow. I wouldn't call it a cast though. It looks like mixed lighting and nikon picked the more yellow option.



Oct 26, 2016 at 12:49 PM
hendrikm
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p.2 #14 · p.2 #14 · DOF of crop sensors (Fuji XT-2 vs Nikon D750)


heikoM wrote:
WB (never saw the Nikon yellow tint so clear).



What white balance did you use? You stripped the exif data, so I couldnīt find it...




Oct 26, 2016 at 04:44 PM
heikoM
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p.2 #15 · p.2 #15 · DOF of crop sensors (Fuji XT-2 vs Nikon D750)


hendrikm wrote:
What white balance did you use? You stripped the exif data, so I couldnīt find it...




auto with both cameras

the wb and tint was consistent with each camera


heiko



Oct 26, 2016 at 06:27 PM
Goncalomp
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p.2 #16 · p.2 #16 · DOF of crop sensors (Fuji XT-2 vs Nikon D750)


I had the same experience and unpleasant surprise. I thought the 1.4 lenses would work like my full frame glass at f2, all the articles and websites said that. But in real life that does not happen. The 23mm 1.4 equals to a full frame 2.8 or maybe even f3.2 in terms of DOF. And only today I discovered what is going on:

The 23mm 1.4 Fuji lens is a 23mm lens full stop. When we look at an image it produces it looks like the full frame 35mm because the image is cropped 1.5x times due to the smaller sensor. But the lens itself is a 23mm. So it works like a 23mm on a full frame camera with a crop applied.

Take a full frame camera with a 35mm. Take a picture say at f2. Attach the lens via an adapter to the Fuji (do not move) and take the picture of the same scene with the same fstop. The DOF will be exactly the same! Not the framing but the DOF will. But because the Fuji has a smaller sensor one has to make up for it moving a few steps backwards to achieve the same framing thus losing 1.5x DOF.

So our only chance to have the look of a full frame 35mm f2 on our Fujis is to use the 35mm1.4 at 1.4 and take a few steps backwards.




Feb 15, 2017 at 08:08 AM
BSPhotog
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p.2 #17 · p.2 #17 · DOF of crop sensors (Fuji XT-2 vs Nikon D750)


Goncalomp wrote:
I had the same experience and unpleasant surprise. I thought the 1.4 lenses would work like my full frame glass at f2, all the articles and websites said that. But in real life that does not happen. The 23mm 1.4 equals to a full frame 2.8 or maybe even f3.2 in terms of DOF. And only today I discovered what is going on:

The 23mm 1.4 Fuji lens is a 23mm lens full stop. When we look at an image it produces it looks like the full frame 35mm because the image is cropped 1.5x times due to the smaller sensor.
...Show more

Not really, the moment you take a step backwards you change the compression. The further back you step, the larger the background becomes relative to the foreground (or more accurately, the smaller the foreground becomes relative to the background). 35mm is 35mm is 35mm and f/1.4 is f/1.4 is f/1.4



Feb 15, 2017 at 10:13 AM
Goncalomp
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p.2 #18 · p.2 #18 · DOF of crop sensors (Fuji XT-2 vs Nikon D750)


BSPhotog wrote:
Not really, the moment you take a step backwards you change the compression. The further back you step, the larger the background becomes relative to the foreground (or more accurately, the smaller the foreground becomes relative to the background). 35mm is 35mm is 35mm and f/1.4 is f/1.4 is f/1.4


I agree, 23mm 1.4 Fuji is a 23mm 1.4 lens. But how does one reproduce a 35mm f2 full frame look on a APSC sensor camera?




Feb 15, 2017 at 11:35 AM
BSPhotog
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p.2 #19 · p.2 #19 · DOF of crop sensors (Fuji XT-2 vs Nikon D750)


Goncalomp wrote:
I agree, 23mm 1.4 Fuji is a 23mm 1.4 lens. But how does one reproduce a 35mm f2 full frame look on a APSC sensor camera?



Use a 35 f/2 for full frame DSLR mount and a speed-booster (or other such variety) of adapter than redirects the 35mm sized light pattern onto a APSC sized sensor.



Feb 15, 2017 at 01:34 PM
flash
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p.2 #20 · p.2 #20 · DOF of crop sensors (Fuji XT-2 vs Nikon D750)


Goncalomp wrote:
I agree, 23mm 1.4 Fuji is a 23mm 1.4 lens. But how does one reproduce a 35mm f2 full frame look on a APSC sensor camera?



To get the same look you'd need to use the same lens with a speed booster, Even a different model 35mm f2.0 would look different.

I know we've all been told DOF is real and cast in stone and that if you apply the formula you'll get the results you want (it's be a 23mm 1.3 to get a 35mm f2 look) but that's not how optical design works. When it comes to equivalence and DOF we need to add the words, "apparent", "approximate", and "roughly" to every sentence.

Gordon



Feb 15, 2017 at 02:03 PM
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