Archive 2016 · Struggling to pick a system: m4/3 or Sony FE

notherenow
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p.2 #1 · p.2 #1 · Struggling to pick a system: m4/3 or Sony FE

TMaG82 wrote:
I wouldn't look into using a APS-C lens on a full frame, there's too many compromises. Less MP, less room for further cropping. Also the a7II isn't a speed demon by any means, slapping a slower variable lens that goes to 6.3 on the long end, in crop mode, on a body that does what.. 5fps with focus locked and 2.5 FPS with AF?

I know a lot of the guys are suggesting Sony FE. If you were seeking ultimate IQ, I would probably go that way as well. But you prefaced that you don't print large and most of...Show more →

The A7s and A7R have focus locked in speed priority and only do about 2 fps but the A7ii (and original A7) actually can focus at 5fps.

I had the original and as long as the subject wasn't moving too fast it was alright for AFC.

The biggest limitation for using AFC was the lack of lenses that would typically be used with AFC. Those available when the camera was released were few and far between and pretty short in focal length. That probably still applies for the first generation cameras.

I took a few 30 plus shot sequences with my A7 and Sony Zeiss 55 1.8 and almost all would be in focus for something like a subject at walking pace (or as I did in some experiments, me walking towards a stationary subject).

I found the A7 AF had advantages over my Canon 7D. The Canon could track slightly faster moving things but was less accurate and could only use a much smaller area to focus.

My A7s on the other hand is hopeless at AFC (except for video in some instances) but even it has some AF advantages over most other cameras in being able to focus in almost no light.

I have adapted an ancient EF 100-300 5.6 L but that was extremely slow on both the A7 and A7s with my various adapters (a lot faster for M4/3 with a Kipon adapter (lens since sold).

My limited tele use is met mostly with an ancient Tamron adaptall 300 2.8 manual focus lens with Sony (I still have an A mount 180 5.6 Sigma but can not use it as I sold my LA-EA4). I love my Sigma 150 2.8 in Canon mount but it is MF pretty much only on my A7s.

The 150 is nice for fast AFS on my Kipon and GX7 and the 300 2.8 is also used on the GX7.

I have a couple of other old manual tele zooms but hardly use them now (EG a lovely old 70-350 4.5 Tamron adaptall).

Here are the first and last shots of a 30 shot sequence, walking at a normal pace focus on the sign. I think all those in between are ok.
A7 and 55 1.8. From the EXIF, the first was taken at 11.40.04, the last at 11.40.10 in November last year (the only sequence I have left from the A7).

Oct 23, 2016 at 09:15 PM

JonPB
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p.2 #2 · p.2 #2 · Struggling to pick a system: m4/3 or Sony FE

It sounds to me like you're trying to buy with your mind (laying out a complete kit that'll satisfy you for years) when the entire purpose is to satisfy your heart (having an enjoyable pastime while enduring grad school). My vote is to get what your heart wants (that A7II), use it for a while with your FL 50/1.2 (which, at a glance, appears to be your most-used lens), and follow that up with lenses as your passion dictates. This is, after all, about what your heart wants, within the bounds of your budget. If you were shooting for money, then covering all your bases would be necessary. But you're shooting for the love of it. Buy what serves that pursuit.

At least, that approach has served me well through college, grad school, working for good money, and working for no money. When my heart is set on buying a toy, it is best to wait until I can buy what I want rather than try to rationalize myself into accepting a rational substitute. Sometimes, by the time I have the funds, I don't want it anymore. Sometimes, I get exactly what I want, and that is irrationally pleasing. I embrace that.

Oh, and send a few more files to your printer of choice to hang on the wall. I only look at digital photos when I think about doing it. Photos hanging on the wall, even if just a 3x5 "framed" with a thumb tack, help me remember what's important when I need that reminder the most.

Cheers,
Jon

Oct 23, 2016 at 10:56 PM

austinschutz
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p.2 #3 · p.2 #3 · Struggling to pick a system: m4/3 or Sony FE

JonPB wrote:
It sounds to me like you're trying to buy with your mind (laying out a complete kit that'll satisfy you for years) when the entire purpose is to satisfy your heart (having an enjoyable pastime while enduring grad school). My vote is to get what your heart wants (that A7II), use it for a while with your FL 50/1.2 (which, at a glance, appears to be your most-used lens), and follow that up with lenses as your passion dictates. This is, after all, about what your heart wants, within the bounds of your budget. If you were shooting for money,...Show more →

Great advice, thank you.

Oct 23, 2016 at 11:31 PM

austinschutz
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p.2 #4 · p.2 #4 · Struggling to pick a system: m4/3 or Sony FE

Steve Spencer wrote:
I think there are going to be some advantages and disadvantages for each system. Let me suggest a set of lenses for each system that basically gets you within your budget if you buy used.

m4/3rds -
Oly EM5 MKII
Rokinon 10mm f/2.8 (this comes in m4/3rds mount but is really an APS-C lens, which is good because the corners and edges on APS-C are suspect. It is likely a better lens on m4/3rds).
Panny/Leica 15 f/1.7 - very small and although not perfect quite decent
Panny/Leica 25 f/1.4 - a quite competent normal lens with a nice rendering, IMO
Panny/Leica 42.5 f/1.2 - here your a dropping some serious coin, but this lens is worth it, IMO
Only 75 f/1.8 - another beautiful lens and it is amazing what you can get these for now.
Panny 100-300 - a zoom that will let you do some wildlife photography. It isn't the best, but it covers a nice range.
To fit all these in your budget you probably need to sell your Canon FL 55 f/1.2. It won't be nearly up to par on m4/3rds, however, so if this is your system I think you should sell it.

Full Frame
Sony A7 MKII
Voigtlander M mount 21 f/1.8 - it isn't perfect on the Sony, but stopped down it seems to be ok. It is the most expensive of the lenses I am recommending, so you might want to get the Pentax plain K mount 20mm f/4 or the Olympus OM 21mm f/3.5 instead to save money. From samples I have seen, I think the voigt is better, but I'm not sure of that.
Sony FE 28 f/2 - a decent little AF lens and it is the only AF lens I am recommending.
Canon FL 55 f/1.2 - you have it and it will be almost as good as more expensive lenses
Tokina 90 f/2.5 Macro (Bokina) - a lovely lens at a low price. Great for portraits with excellent bokeh and excellent for macro.
Rokinon 135 f/2 - This lens is fantastically sharp and has excellent rendering. It would be fantastic for portraits and landscapes. For the quality it is a ridiculous bargain.
Minolta MC 400 f/5.6 APO - quite nice for wildlife that aren't moving to fast. A very nice rendering and decently sharp. If you are interested, I would sell you mine at a bargain.

The strength of the m4/3rds kit is that you would have very nice autofocus. It should be a nice upgrade especially with the quality lenses from your current system. Wide landscapes and wildlife will be possible, but these will be a bit weaker. You will also be limited by the reduced dynamic range and high ISO abilities of the m4/3rds sized sensor. Still I think this would be an excellent kit.

The strength of the A7 II kit would be the increase dynamic range and better high ISO capability of the system. Keep in mind this isn't an A7r II, however, and the sensor is a bit old for a FF sensor. Still you would get a big bump over your current system. It would be challenged for wide landscapes and wildlife, and you have only one AF lens. This wouldn't bother me, but it might you. You will also be shooting most lenses on adapters, so I would recommend taking the time to shim them appropriately.

Good luck, both in grad school and with your choice....Show more →

Steve, thank you for the response. I will contact you about that Minolta once I've sold my other gear and decided what I want to do (but definetely move it if that is what you are wanting to do, it won't be till January that I am able to flesh out the kit, likely I will purchase the camera and a wide lens first, then the others later if I go with the A7). I'm going to look at reviews/examples of the stuff that everyone has suggested. I think I'm leaning Sony. Thank you all for your very thoughtful/helpful responses!!!

Oct 23, 2016 at 11:40 PM

Frogfish
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p.2 #5 · p.2 #5 · Struggling to pick a system: m4/3 or Sony FE

Just a quick comment on waterproofing that I've seen you and others mention. Nothing is truly waterproof (maybe Pentax !). Water resistant yes but the degree is pretty irrelevant because you still take measures to protect your equipment.

Sea/Beach/Boats : salt and sand kills gear so sky/UV filters (the only time I ever use protective filters) are a must and if the wind is strong then a camera cover too.
Light rain : I never bother with anything, my A7, A7r and A7rii have never even whimpered (though I'd prefer, and have used, my previous D3s/D800e in more severe conditions), I've even used the A7 in temperatures from -35C down to -50C (another story that can be found on FM).

That's not proof of anything except they are not exactly delicate ! There's a blog online of a guy using his A7r through wind/rain/waterfalls and major storms in Iceland for cross-country hike, without any issues at all (not recommended though - link can be provided).

So as far as waterproofing goes do what most others do and just use a designed for protection or as I always carry, some plastic bags and rubber bands. I certainly wouldn't make a decision on whether to buy or not based on whether a camera/lens is water-resisitant (even though prefered). Personally I'd suggest you don't either because the times you'll use a camera in those conditions are rare.

Oct 24, 2016 at 12:30 AM

joshinthecity
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p.2 #6 · p.2 #6 · Struggling to pick a system: m4/3 or Sony FE

austinschutz wrote:
I think if a 50mm lens were my priority, I'd probably get the VC 50 1.5. I like its rendering much more than any other 50mm lens. I've made due over the past 5 years with essentially my Sony NEX 5 and Canon 55mm f/1.2 FL. It means I have to stitch all of my landscape photos, I can't get wide shots with one click of the shutter, and things that are too far away are impossible to capture. I'm really trying to avoid that

I have the Voigtlander Nokton 50. f1.5 The Chrome (actually solid brass)one. It's a very nice lens to be sure, but to be honest, the Leica is so far ahead (in my humble opinion) as to be from a different solar system...
The Voigt is mint, in the box if anyone's interested..

Oct 24, 2016 at 03:25 AM

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