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Getting started with wider gamut
  
 
Greg Schneider
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Getting started with wider gamut


For many years I've worked with sRGB only - probably a mistake - but I'm now ready to switch to wider gamut using a Dell U2410. It's calibrated with my Spyder to almost exactly aRGB specs. A few questions I have:

    Is Windows (10) itself (window manager and so on) actually colour managed? My desktop background, app icons all seem overly saturated once in aRGB mode.

    Is there any advantage to using ProPhoto over aRGB? I realize Prophoto is substantially larger than aRGB, while my hesitation comes from editing photos in a colour space that your monitor cannot reproduce, so how can you know what the true results are? Is there really value in having this space when you are probably converting back to aRGB for print anyway?

    If an image soft proofs to sRGB without clipping prior to RAW conversion, is there actually value to wider gamut? To me there could only be value if my adjustments end up taking colour outside of sRGB.




Oct 22, 2016 at 02:21 PM
ben egbert
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Getting started with wider gamut


Win 10 desktop is not color managed, intentionally because of speed, according to Microsoft. It's a royal pain for photographers. I use the Windows viewer ap (not sure the proper name) to place a full size image in place of the Windows desktop. This one is color managed. This allows me to view a particular image over time, and before posting or printing.

I used to use prophoto RGB for many years but switched back to aRGB. The big issues wide gamut is that even though it looks good in print or on your monitor, it will get slammed in forums by people using sRGB only monitors.

Often times red/orange will look fine in wide gamut, but will posterize when converted to sRGB.



Oct 22, 2016 at 03:25 PM
Greg Schneider
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Getting started with wider gamut


Thanks Ben. My intention would always be to convert to sRGB for the web, and embed the ICC profile as well. I suppose that could also lead to situations where your image looks beautiful in aRGB but then worse in sRGB if you can't convert to that same level of colour depth.


Oct 22, 2016 at 03:33 PM
ben egbert
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Getting started with wider gamut


Yes, I often have colorful sky's that look great in wide gamut, but are out of gamut in sRGB. Sometimes it's hard to fix. I always convert to sRGB for web, but my NEC monitor does not show sRGB exactly. I use a second sRGB monitor to get an idea what other people will see. Your Dell may display sRGB better.


Oct 22, 2016 at 04:03 PM
Greg Schneider
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Getting started with wider gamut


I do have a sRGB preset that limits the monitor to sRGB, and calibrated it's almost exactly sRGB.


Oct 22, 2016 at 04:09 PM
 

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Peter Figen
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Getting started with wider gamut


"Yes, I often have colorful sky's that look great in wide gamut, but are out of gamut in sRGB. Sometimes it's hard to fix. I always convert to sRGB for web, but my NEC monitor does not show sRGB exactly. I use a second sRGB monitor to get an idea what other people will see. Your Dell may display sRGB better"

I don't understand Ben. If you convert your file to sRGB, it WILL show you exactly what it looks like in sRGB because it IS in sRGB.

As far as files not looking correct if they're in color spaces other than sRGB, it really just depends. The biggest factor is whether or not your application is color managed or not, and most web browsers are today, maybe not by default, but at least you can turn that feature on. It doesn't do you any good to save and display an sRGB document and view it on an Adobe RGB gamut monitor through a non color managed application. That will show you over saturated colors with sRGB. If you post ProPhoto files that are viewed in a non color managed browser then they'll look dull and drab by comparison. And of course, even with everything color managed, the screen can never show any colors beyond ITS gamut.

Probably the only reason to limit the gamut of your screen to sRGB or REC709 (sRGB w/ 2.4 gamma) is for video editing, which, unfortunately is not color managed at this point, so you have to calibrate your screen to sRGB for web and REC709 for broadcast.



Oct 22, 2016 at 09:44 PM
ben egbert
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Getting started with wider gamut


The point was, colors that are in gamut with Pro or aRGB might be out of gamut in sRGB. I had one that was nearly unfixable for sRGB. Yes,after converting to sRGB, it was exactly correct for sRGB, but it also looked blown out in the out of gamut areas.

By reprocessing in the sRGB color space, and desaturating and darkening the offending areas, I was able to fix it, but it looked much better in wide gamut and in print when processed for Prophoto without the work around.

When I view an image loaded to the desktop as a screen saver (Win 10), it is grossly over saturated because it is not color managed. My cheap Dell also looks off but not as much I suppose because it has less color range. But both screens look pretty close if I view with a color managed application.

This is just a warning about a side issue using wide gamut as I do for all my processing and printing. I always convert to sRGB for web and only for web.

My old Nec 2690 could be calibrated to sRGB, the new EA 244UHD cannot.



Oct 23, 2016 at 12:04 AM
Peter Figen
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Getting started with wider gamut


If you really want to have a color image as your desktop on your computer and you're using Windows 10, then I would convert that image to your actual monitor profile and it will display correctly, but the bigger question is why would you do that. The best "color" to have on your desktop if you're serious about imaging and judging color on screen is a neutral gray. I prefer something a bit darker than 128, but as long as it's neutral and not too bright it'll be fine. Of course, you're probably using that crazy application frame that Adobe tried to foist on us Mac users as a default, so you don't see much of the desktop anyway. If you're used to working on multiple images open at the same time, the first thing you do is turn that off.

Another thing you can try is downloading a v4 sRGB profile and convert to that instead of the standard one included in Ps. That should let you use a real Perceptual table to convert to and help out somewhat with some of the saturated colors in ProPhoto when going to sRGB.

One more thing is to consider a more moderate working space like DonRGB, which is wider than Adobe but less than ProPhoto and a much closer match to most digital cameras. Same as using EktaSpaceRGB for film scans which encompasses the gamut available on an Ektachrome transparency. Of course, all that's kind of a moot point for users of Lightroom, isn't it.



Oct 23, 2016 at 08:17 AM
Mike Veltri
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Getting started with wider gamut


I have been using ProPhoto RGB for years Greg, from Win7 to Win10 on release with no problems. I convert to sRGB for the web, and have done so for years. I am using Photoshop CC and Lightroom, and Lightroom defaults to ProPhoto RGB so I also have Photoshop set to ProPhoto. My monitor is a 30" Dell. I use Firefox as my browser and just printed a 13x19+ of a Red-fox image and it looks like just like the image on my monitor.
My web images match my originals CR2 files when viewing on my monitor so all is good here.

I calibrate with an i1Display by x-rite, and calibrate in RGB. My luminance is set to 80 or 100 and my prints turn out matching my monitor. I print all my kids dance recital imagery myself and have no issues matching prints to my monitor display.



Oct 23, 2016 at 09:39 AM
aubsxc
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Getting started with wider gamut


Greg Schneider wrote:
For many years I've worked with sRGB only - probably a mistake - but I'm now ready to switch to wider gamut using a Dell U2410. It's calibrated with my Spyder to almost exactly aRGB specs. A few questions I have:

    Is Windows (10) itself (window manager and so on) actually colour managed? My desktop background, app icons all seem overly saturated once in aRGB mode.

    Is there any advantage to using ProPhoto over aRGB? I realize Prophoto is substantially larger than aRGB, while my hesitation comes from editing photos in a colour space that your monitor cannot reproduce, so how

...Show more

There are both advantages and disadvantages to working in a much bigger color space like ProPhotoRGB (PRGB), as opposed to AdobeRGB (ARGB).

If your source can capture colors outside the ARGB space, and you work in the ARGB space, you are effectively throwing away this extra information, or folding it into the ARGB space. This could be a bad thing if you anticipate that monitors and printers in the future may be able to display this information.

If you work in a larger color space like PRGB, you may be vulnerable to more posterization than when working in ARGB. This is because the bit depth remains constant no matter what space you work in. For example, if you were using an 8-bit system, each color would have 2^8, or 256 possible steps between blackest black to whitest white, and the step size, or width of the step, would necessarily increase in going from an ARGB space to a PRGB space since the latter is so much larger in volume. The decreased resolution going to PRGB could be an issue under certain conditions.

There are no absolutes. You have to educate yourself and find what works best for an individual or group of images, and select a working space appropriately.



Oct 23, 2016 at 08:46 PM







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