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Archive 2016 · Rant - What's Wrong w/this Industry and it's sacchariny s...
  
 
VerucaSallt
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p.5 #1 · p.5 #1 · Rant - What's Wrong w/this Industry and it's sacchariny sweet photographers?


Naw, it's cool. It's not the full FredMiranda message board experience without at least one "you should quit" response.
#mostsupportivepeopleEVARRRRRRR



Oct 25, 2016 at 07:55 PM
LeeSimms
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p.5 #2 · p.5 #2 · Rant - What's Wrong w/this Industry and it's sacchariny sweet photographers?


but if you can realign your expectations, it beats working in a bank (IMO)


Oct 25, 2016 at 08:32 PM
glort
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p.5 #3 · p.5 #3 · Rant - What's Wrong w/this Industry and it's sacchariny sweet photographers?


VerucaSallt wrote:
Thanks for this. As a newer wedding photographer I'm over here like oh em gee... I'm doing this ALL wrong by not having a blog and a facebook page that I'm gushing over every person to step in front of my camera and I love everyone and every thing and

I feel much better about life in general right now.


I have re read this post and followups and it seems you are serious.

As a not so new photographer can assure you I don't and have never had a blog, a facewaste page nor gushed over clients.
Rather than feel I'm doing anything wrong and getting upset over the fact people say it's a requirement for some sectors of the market, I feel like I am doing exactly the right thing and maintaining my dignity and credibility.
The other guys can have those clients that are attracted to that kind of BS because they couldn't pay me enough to slobber and lick their butts like that if that's what I need to do to work with them.
Weddings are not the only game in town you can play with a camera and for me, they are getting less worthwhile on a time for return basis anyhow. I'm a photographer. I'm not just a wedding photographer or a commercial shooter or anything else. I go where the money and opportunity is at the time and am more than happy to do that.
it's done me very well over the years.

If you are going to be so thin skinned and upset because others are telling you they are doing things different, then I fully agree you should get out now for no other reason than to save yourself a lot of heartache and grief.

These very posts are what is so typical and pathetic about the gushing rainbows and sunshine attitude. It's false and unrealistic. The real world is tough and fking cruel and if you can't handle it then you better go live in a commune somewhere and take your candy arse clients with you. ( being others than you and me have them).

If you haven't worked out by now that people in this game do things differently and get very passionate about it, then you haven't learned much. That being the case I'd even suggest ( god forbid!) that you read some more of my rantings to work out you can do your own thing, go against the grain and you'll be just fine.
It might take a pair but if you haven't got them or can't grow them, then again I'd suggest you get out and go find something more suited to your proclivities.

The irony with the sickly sweet attitude is that while some pussy clients might be attracted by it, you can bet your arse the minute something happens they don't like, they will be anything but the fairy and unicorn types and more likely turn into irrational whining tyrant bastards till they are satisfied and often, not even then.

Probably the last person you want to align yourself with here is me but the fact you are not gushing to clients on blogs and facewaste pages, in my book makes you doing the exact right thing. Try blowing clouds and fluff at them then and see how well it works.

Lee is spot on in that all these clients that want something " creative and different" are a pack of sheep and DO want the same thing over and over and over and ..... They probably think they are being original and different because they have only seen the idea once before out of the 5-10 weddings they have been to in their lives.
Chances are most of them got something out of a bridal book and probably forget that now believing they came up with it all on their own.

When you get 10's of thousands of people going through the same ritual every week, it's pretty hard to find something not done before. The thing is, You don't have to.
Being different is only important to people getting married the first time and being their first time, it's different because they haven't done it before. Next time round their outlook will have changed significantly.

Forget about what is different and wonderful to you, concentrate on keeping the clients happy. If you have done it before 100 times, tough. People in other jobs do the same ting 100 times a day and they don't expect to be enthralled and have their desires met by their paying clients.
I'm stuffed if I know why Shooters think they have some sort of right to have their desires and ambitions met and paid for by their clients.

As said, it's a job. Like any other, if you don't like it or it's not fulfilling your personal needs and desires, you can always go get another one.

As much as you might ridicule the sentiments here of " You should quit", that is not to say in many cases it's not good and accurate advise.




Oct 25, 2016 at 10:29 PM
VerucaSallt
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p.5 #4 · p.5 #4 · Rant - What's Wrong w/this Industry and it's sacchariny sweet photographers?


I'm not reading that novel, mostly because your first sentence is wrong, at least in the respect that I was only half serious. And like Lee you are reading waaaayyyy too much into things. It was more of "hey, all these successful photogs I know are doing this, should I be, too?" to which I answered my own question... no. It was just nice to see a whole group of photographers feel the same way about it as I do and I indulged a little in some sarcasm to illustrate my point. I talk about focusing on growing as a photographer rather than spending my time on blog posts and I get a bunch of shade about it... but I see people gripe about low end, shitty photogs bottoming out the market and lawd forbid I mention I'd like more to my portfolio than sticking rings in flowers and calling it my best work. And somehow that translates to being unhappy with my job which is so wrong it's almost funny.

I mean really... lighten up.



Oct 25, 2016 at 11:23 PM
BSPhotog
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p.5 #5 · p.5 #5 · Rant - What's Wrong w/this Industry and it's sacchariny sweet photographers?


VerucaSallt wrote:
I'm not reading that novel, mostly because your first sentence is wrong, at least in the respect that I was only half serious. And like Lee you are reading waaaayyyy too much into things. It was more of "hey, all these successful photogs I know are doing this, should I be, too?" to which I answered my own question... no. It was just nice to see a whole group of photographers feel the same way about it as I do and I indulged a little in some sarcasm to illustrate my point. I talk about focusing on growing as a
...Show more

You identified two fundamental problems with having this conversation on the internet.

1) Sarcasm doesn't read well. That's the nature of getting only the written word without the benefit of verbal delivery and non-verbal cues. You can't fault the other members here for taking your words at face value.
2) The TLDR mentality. Seriously, acknowledging that you didn't read something because you didn't like the first line...but then replying to it anyway? If we talk and listen (read and write in this case), we have a conversation. If we each just spout off independently then what are we doing here?

I think this thread has pretty well run its course. :-/



Oct 26, 2016 at 01:33 AM
eke2k6
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p.5 #6 · p.5 #6 · Rant - What's Wrong w/this Industry and it's sacchariny sweet photographers?


Photography has evolved. Now everyone has a camera, so the professional photographer is no longer just selling photos. Professional photography is now a service driven industry, driven by marketing in a social media culture. The old school approach doesn't fly the same way it used to.




Oct 26, 2016 at 03:22 AM
glort
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p.5 #7 · p.5 #7 · Rant - What's Wrong w/this Industry and it's sacchariny sweet photographers?


VerucaSallt wrote:
I'm not reading that novel, mostly because your first sentence is wrong,

I mean really... lighten up.


Yep, Lee was spot on correct the first time.

And thank you for the explanation. I re read your posts several times and they were far from clear as being sarcastic. No doubt you'll blame that on my lack of comprehension but I have a position as to who's fault it is if one can not write so as to be clearly understood by whom they are writing for....

The thread is fitting in it's subject matter too given your childish attitude that you didn't get sunshine and rainbows blown up your backside. Clearly it's not just wedding clients that want to be molly coddled and spoken to like their Mummy reading them a fairy tale.

Topic Point well proven I'd say.



Oct 26, 2016 at 03:33 AM
 

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glort
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p.5 #8 · p.5 #8 · Rant - What's Wrong w/this Industry and it's sacchariny sweet photographers?


eke2k6 wrote:
Photography has evolved. Now everyone has a camera, so the professional photographer is no longer just selling photos. Professional photography is now a service driven industry, driven by marketing in a social media culture. The old school approach doesn't fly the same way it used to.



I find repeatedly the old school approach works even better now than ever. .

The fact everyone is using social media and frankly trying to take the easy way out more times than not, means those that are using another marketing method (be it called old school or other) tend to stand out. Standing out has been more than enough to land me endless good jobs.

I have people comment to me on the fact I send out glossy, heavyweight printed promo material that they can pass around and look at anywhere and everywhere rather than just refer them back to a web page. As different to what many think, not everyone looks at everything on their phone and the people that do don't mind looking at printed material either.
I get comments that I will go and meet people and talk to them face to face rather than just emailing or skyping or whatever else.

In this day and age, there is still NOTHING more powerful than the old B2B meeting with someone. ( belly to belly) I have a mate that is in high end sales and ONLY deals with the Million dollar plus clients and he's out there every day getting in front of people. Pretty sure of that old school practice didn't work his multinational, multi hundred million a year company wouldn't be sending all their reps out to do it.

These days it is also seen as providing better service which I agree with you is also just as important as ever. Sadly, and without trying to ridicule anyone, I think service standards have dropped a lot in this game.

All the time I read that people don't have time for personal interviews. Amazes me that my clients are all so special because I have yet to EVER be told that. I had a client book me the other day who lives interstate yet she has already made a time to get together before the wedding. Sure some clients may not want to but it's different from the position ( excuse) of many that no one has time anymore. That's just not the case. It's the shooter creating a position to justify their own wants quite often I believe. Obviously if you don't ask if people would like a meeting you probably aren't going to get a lot.

Look at the digital delivery practices.
Once it was a CD that was printed and personalised and was delivered in a nice presentation box that was a real effort to add value and worth to the product. With the changing of technology this went to USB but still with the effort of presentation. Over the last couple of years it seems more and more shooters think thats too much trouble, effort and expense and now just upload pics for the clients to download.

To me that's just a complete lack of any sort of service and takes away a lot of the value to the clients. Obviously the people doing it will defend it but to me, it's a complete and utter anti climax for delivery of something that has been made out to be so important and the shooter promised putting so much skill and effort into.

I mean really, You can't be fked putting the pics on a physical medium, getting some sort of presentation package together to give the product some value and status and allowing the clients to have something to touch, feel and revere for the money they spent with you and all the hours and effort you put into it??
I can't get my head round that. Shooters are so proud and carry on about their brand and product quality but they deliver the pics like that?
Just don't add up to me.

I guess I really am old school.
I rented out my photobooth on the weekend for a 21st and I put the images on a couple of decent ( nothing special but decent ) USB sticks from the office warehouse and my wife found these little boxes in the $2 shop which is what I think they cost, and we presented the Images like that. I stick to use, 1 to put away.
I also did a few 8x12 prints of some key family shots and threw them in a white presentation folder I buy in packs of 10 for $16 .

My daughter gave everything to the girl last night and she was so excited and thrilled with that it took my daughter all her time to convince the girl she had already paid and there was no need to bring Flowers and Booze to say thanks to my wife and I for setting it up and tearing it down and giving her the pics...... That again she had already paid for.

I invested less than 10 bux and 30 min in that but the Client is stoked before she has even seen the pics. To me, that's a damn good investment in marketing and self promo.
There won't be a person this girl comes in contact having a function or party that I am not extolled to and that girl, at that age with that many friends is going to come into contact with a LOT of potential clients for me. She was already a referal from a previous job a few weeks back and a short notice booking so now my referral base has grown again.

You cannot buy that sort of advocacy with an ad or a fb page or anything else other than a past client whom is stoked with what you did for them and feels they got more than their value for money. I spent more money in the drive through on the way home from the job and spent nearly as much time waiting there as I did putting the pics on the USB for the girl and doing the prints. WTF do I care about giving that bit of value added and extra service as far as time and cost?

Might be why the booth business is starting to grow faster than I expected and even though I don't have a fb page or even business cards printed yet, the thing has been out 3 weekends out of the last 4.
Yeah, they are old school too but I'll definitely be getting business cards done and working them for all they are worth.

Amazingly, Neither my daughter or I have had to gush or put sickly sweet posts up on any social media to get these bookings or the several we are already booked for especially in the new year. :0)



Oct 26, 2016 at 04:22 AM
Ziffl3
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p.5 #9 · p.5 #9 · Rant - What's Wrong w/this Industry and it's sacchariny sweet photographers?


eke2k6 wrote:
Photography has evolved. Now everyone has a camera, so the professional photographer is no longer just selling photos. Professional photography is now a service driven industry, driven by marketing in a social media culture. The old school approach doesn't fly the same way it used to.



I am not so sure .... Given the choice... most of my young brides love to meet and talk about their day.

As for deliverable..... all my clients want the USB stick even though they downloaded the images.

I put extra effort in meeting client when I have their album. It is a time to reflex on the day.... the moments ....
Or in this case me and my 2nd shooters ability to capture the clients weddings.

It is fun to get the feedback, and the accolades ... hugs and now the followup business of gender reveals/baby bump shooting sessions. I do not even advertise any of this.

So what Glort is rambling on about is alive and well in a social media/iphone/space watch world.

Now I agree you might have to change your approach to include social media in your brand.....

But the B2B as Glort references to show the client that they are special because you took the time out of your day to meet with them will separate you from many shooters.
This does not mean you need to become best friends or god parents to their first born. Nope.
Just an honest photographer having fun, impacting lives while running a business.

-Mark







Oct 26, 2016 at 05:26 AM
eke2k6
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p.5 #10 · p.5 #10 · Rant - What's Wrong w/this Industry and it's sacchariny sweet photographers?


I'm not arguing for the removal of F2F meetings. I meet with all my brides. Same for physical delivery. That can all be part of your personal branding or customer value package proposals that set you apart.

The issue the OP addresses is the social media/blogging photog who loves all the clients. In my opinion, and the opinion of my marketing professor, this is smart because it taps into the current generation's service and feeling-driven purchasing habits. These "saccharine" photogs may not be doing it consciously, but it seems to be working for them, does it not?


Bottom line, editing and shooting styles cater to different target markets. The light and airy "loving" photographer approach caters to a certain demographic, and does it quite efficiently. Actual studies have demonstrated this generation's need for "sensational" product marketing.

No one approach is right. No need to lambast what works for others. If you don't like it, blame Jose Villa.



Oct 26, 2016 at 05:58 AM
dmacmillan
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p.5 #11 · p.5 #11 · Rant - What's Wrong w/this Industry and it's sacchariny sweet photographers?


Ziffl3 wrote:
I am not so sure .... Given the choice... most of my young brides love to meet and talk about their day.

But the B2B as Glort references to show the client that they are special because you took the time out of your day to meet with them will separate you from many shooters.
This does not mean you need to become best friends or god parents to their first born. Nope.
Just an honest photographer having fun, impacting lives while running a business.

-Mark

I was a professional photographer in the '80's. Wedding photography was a side business to my main focus of commercial/industrial photography. Word of mouth brought as much wedding business as I wanted.

I can't imagine not having a F2F meeting with a bride. It's all about making her feel special, which she is. Almost every girl dreams of her wedding day. Most have a movie in her head of what the day will be like, from the ceremony to her wedding cake. Meeting with her gives you the chance to put yourself in that movie. My narrative went something like this:

"Oh, you're getting married at First Methodist? That's a gorgeous church! You know that little courtyard between the sanctuary and the educational building? It's the perfect location for some special photos of you and your husband! I'll have you stand at the bottom of that little curving staircase..."

If she can picture you and her together at her wedding, you're pretty much home free.

She's excited about her big day. Meeting with her gives you the opportunity to show you are too. I didn't really do much talking. It was mostly leading questions to get her thinking about her wedding day and your desire to be part of it.



Oct 26, 2016 at 01:24 PM
eke2k6
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p.5 #12 · p.5 #12 · Rant - What's Wrong w/this Industry and it's sacchariny sweet photographers?


Why is this straw man argument about face to face meetings being brought up? The OP was talking about a style of social media marketing by photographers. Or am I missing something?


Oct 26, 2016 at 02:37 PM
ZachOly
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p.5 #13 · p.5 #13 · Rant - What's Wrong w/this Industry and it's sacchariny sweet photographers?


eke2k6 wrote:
Why is this straw man argument about face to face meetings being brought up? The OP was talking about a style of social media marketing by photographers. Or am I missing something?


Around here, after a few pages people just start ranting about whatever comes to mind.



Oct 26, 2016 at 02:43 PM
BSPhotog
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p.5 #14 · p.5 #14 · Rant - What's Wrong w/this Industry and it's sacchariny sweet photographers?


ZachOly wrote:
Around here, after a few pages people just start ranting about whatever comes to mind.


Like I said, this thread has run its course.



Oct 26, 2016 at 02:57 PM
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