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Leica confusion - model numbers / names...what is what?
  
 
Michael H
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Leica confusion - model numbers / names...what is what?


The answer is probably easily found, but in a quick search I didn't find what I was looking for. I'm trying to understand the connection between model numbers and names.

There are the names, like Leica M, or M9, or M-E, or MM, or M-P
and then there are the models like 240 246, 263, or whatever

So what is what?
Is a 240 a M9 or M, or something else?
Is a M-P a 263 or something else?

Does my question make sense? Is there a reference chart I can review somewhere?

Cheers



Oct 18, 2016 at 10:41 PM
rscheffler
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Leica confusion - model numbers / names...what is what?


After the M9, Leica designated the M-series cameras as simply 'M' (same also happened to the S-series and presumably will also be the case with the SL, Q, T, X...). But each M model is referred to by 'Typ' (type). The first being the original M Typ 240, usually referred to here as M240 (when the M240 arrived, the M9 was reincarnated as the stripped down M-E Typ 220). The Typ 246 is the second Monochrom version. The Typ 262 is a 'stripped down' version of the 240 without live view or video and is kind of what the M-E was to the M9/M9P, but it also has a second 'M-D' variant without LCD display, but still designated Typ 262. The M-P (not to be confused with the MP film camera ) is a 'pro' or premium version of the 240 with larger buffer and other enhancements. Such a 'P' variant is now typical of Leica about halfway through the camera life cycle (also happened with the M9), which some would argue is the upgraded version that should have been released in the first place.

For reference (though not fully up to date with the newer M240 variants):

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-wiki.en/index.php/Main_Page

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-wiki.en/index.php/Main_Page#Digital_M

So currently:


Digital:

M (Typ 240) with M-P premium variant
M Monochrom (Typ 246) B&W variant
M (Typ 262) stripped down version with M-D LCD-less variant

Film:

M-A
MP
M7



Oct 18, 2016 at 11:07 PM
lenticular11
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Leica confusion - model numbers / names...what is what?


Ron, that's a great quick synopsis.

...of course there are also the earlier film cameras:


M3

followed by the M2 (yes, really )

M4

etc, etc

Rather than the film and digital camera model numbers, I am more tickled and enamoured by their very esoteric 5-letter names for all of the accessories.

I'm sure there's potential for a haiku or Limericks being written about these, but as a retired engineer I would fail miserably at that, however I can't resist a quick attempt:

'There was a young man called Bronsky
Who wanted to buy a SOMKY
He got all confused and was very bemused
Especially when served up a NOOKY.'



Oct 18, 2016 at 11:48 PM
IndioInMrica
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Leica confusion - model numbers / names...what is what?


A good resource

http://lavidaleica.com/content/overview-m-system#mp



Oct 18, 2016 at 11:56 PM
Lee Saxon
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Leica confusion - model numbers / names...what is what?


I think the problem here is that they're making too many freaking cameras. What do you figure they're making, 50 each per year of these cameras? And this doesn't even count the 73 overlapping compacts.


Oct 19, 2016 at 12:19 AM
Lee Saxon
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Leica confusion - model numbers / names...what is what?


I think the problem here is that they're making too many freaking cameras. What do you figure they're making, 50 each per year of these cameras? And this doesn't even count the 73 overlapping compacts. They need one M and maybe one M-E (and not even that if they can't make it meaningfully less expensive than the M which is currently is not).


Oct 19, 2016 at 12:19 AM
Alexluu627
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Leica confusion - model numbers / names...what is what?


You think this is complicated wait until you get into the many types and variants of the Leica lenses haha.


Oct 19, 2016 at 02:48 AM
 

Search in Used Dept. 



Michael H
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Leica confusion - model numbers / names...what is what?


Thanks everyone. This does help...I think


Oct 19, 2016 at 04:13 AM
rscheffler
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Leica confusion - model numbers / names...what is what?


Yeah, I was going to mention the lenses.... haha....

You just need to spend a bit of time immersed in the terminology and eventually it will start to make sense. A great excuse to spend more time surfing instead of doing something else.

Lee Saxon wrote:
I think the problem here is that they're making too many freaking cameras. What do you figure they're making, 50 each per year of these cameras? And this doesn't even count the 73 overlapping compacts. They need one M and maybe one M-E (and not even that if they can't make it meaningfully less expensive than the M which is currently is not).


They do make a lot of variants and special editions, but give them some credit for making some that no other manufacturer would have the guts to offer. I.e. a digital camera without an LCD, or one that is strictly monochrome. Sure, for most of us, it's not interesting, but some niche will buy it. And Leica is all about catering to niches. Just to even buy a 'mainstream' Leica means you're already a niche buyer.

As for sales volume, according to LUF's wiki (linked above), you're probably looking at around 100-120K for both the M9/M9P and M240s, if there numbers are accurate and complete. That's not bad. Given there's around 20% markup for the retailer, Leica might be earning ~$5500 per M. Assuming consistent sales each year, they're potentially generating around $160M gross annually from the camera alone.



Oct 19, 2016 at 04:20 AM
sirimiri
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Leica confusion - model numbers / names...what is what?


Leica historically Leics [sic] names for lenses, and iterative series assignment for bodies, after of course birthing the first of a series.

I guess they got fatigued with body iterations, neither getting to M10 (their marketing shift) nor R10 (the market shifted on them). So now, in the mind of Leica, an M is always an M.

They've burped out a few different systems since the oughties, and are all over the alphabet with S2, TL, Q, X, C/D/V-Luxes.

Sofort, that name is lost on me. Wait until you delve into their earlier products that have letter codes, like oubio, oufro, sbloo...



Oct 19, 2016 at 04:56 AM
flash
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Leica confusion - model numbers / names...what is what?


With the digital Leica's, in order.....

M8
M9, M9P, Monochrom (b&w version of the M9P). M9P added different engraving and a gorilla glass LCD.
M, M-P (both type 240) latter added a frame line lever and bigger buffer.
M-D, type 60. No LCD or video
Monochrom (type 246)
M (type 262) shares a sensor with the SL and Q. No video. No EVF.

So basically, after the M9 series, Leica decided to remove a model number and just call them *M*. Now we need to type a type every time, which is stupid.

Gordon



Oct 19, 2016 at 06:46 AM
retrofocus
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Leica confusion - model numbers / names...what is what?


flash wrote:
So basically, after the M9 series, Leica decided to remove a model number and just call them *M*. Now we need to type a type every time, which is stupid.


+1. This says it well. Confused the heck out of me when I started to read about M cameras a while ago. A continuous count would be much easier than just M with the confusing model number.



Oct 19, 2016 at 12:32 PM
retrofocus
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Leica confusion - model numbers / names...what is what?


sirimiri wrote:
Sofort, that name is lost on me. Wait until you delve into their earlier products that have letter codes, like oubio, oufro, sbloo...


Sofort is German and means instant.



Oct 19, 2016 at 12:35 PM
Bijltje
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Leica confusion - model numbers / names...what is what?


flash wrote:
With the digital Leica's, in order.....

M8
M9, M9P, Monochrom (b&w version of the M9P). M9P added different engraving and a gorilla glass LCD.
M, M-P (both type 240) latter added a frame line lever and bigger buffer.
M-D, type 60. No LCD or video
Monochrom (type 246)
M (type 262) shares a sensor with the SL and Q. No video. No EVF.

So basically, after the M9 series, Leica decided to remove a model number and just call them *M*. Now we need to type a type every time, which is stupid.

Gordon


Small correction on the M8/ M9 part: M9P/MM/M8.2 came with Sapphire glass in stead of Gorilla glass. This was later cut with the M240 but added again with the M-P


M8
M8.2 (Compared to the M8: cosmetic changes like vulcanite/ black dot/ different paint, new shutter, sapphire glass and a frameline set at 2m)
M8 upgrade (M8 with 1,2 or 3 of the additions of the M8.2 added)

M9
M9P (Compared to the M9: no dot, no M9 engraving at the front, Leica engraved on top, M9P and serial number engraved on the hot shoe, sapphire glass, vulcanite, black paint or silver.
M9 upgrade (M9 with the looks of the M9P, only difference is the hot shoe without M9P engraving)
Monochrom or MM (Compared to the M9P: Black and white sensor with different ISO settings and auto ISO setting, totally black body with different mat black paint and black hot shoe, No top engraving, different leather, later an silver MM was added)



Oct 19, 2016 at 07:21 PM







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