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Archive 2016 · Would you buy a set of "Summaron" lenses for la...
  
 
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Would you buy a set of "Summaron" lenses for landscapes?


So it looks like Leica is releasing a 28mm Summaron lens.

http://leicarumors.com/2016/10/17/thsi-is-the-new-leica-summaron-m-28mm-f5-6-lens.aspx/

That got me thinking. I would love a set of dedicated lenses around the f5.6 range that were optically great and easy to carry. There's a place for fast lenses but there's also a case for great optics that don't have fast apertures at all. The only lenses that seem to be in this range are cheaper zooms or this single Leica and a few ultra wide CV's.

So if someone (say Zeiss, Leica, Voigtlander or Sigma Art) made you a set of slower smaller lenses, that were great to the corners wide open would you bite? What focal lengths would you want or be prepared to carry?

Gordon



Oct 17, 2016 at 08:00 PM
zhangyue
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Would you buy a set of "Summaron" lenses for landscapes?


Yeh, but at least f2.8 or f3.5, center sharp. And less than two stop to reach peak performance. Size saving will be worth it.

F5.6 is too far for me. From f2.8 to f5.6, how much will we save, size wise?

I recently bought f3.5 summaron 35mm, 60 years old. It blew me away. Absolutely love it. Oh, Leica.



Oct 17, 2016 at 08:15 PM
joakim
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Would you buy a set of "Summaron" lenses for landscapes?


Well Leica is almost there with the 21/3.5 Super-Elmar or the 24/3.8 Elmar and the 90/4 Macro-Elmar you're of to a very good start. A slow 50 optimised for landscape is missing but there is already the quite small 50/2.4 Summarit although I don't know much about that lens so I'm not sure if it is in the same league as the others.


Oct 17, 2016 at 08:38 PM
alundeb
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Would you buy a set of "Summaron" lenses for landscapes?


I like the concept. f/3.5 - f/4.5 is fine. f/5.6 requires peak performance wide open which I doubt will happen in practice.



Oct 17, 2016 at 08:40 PM
Taylor Sherman
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Would you buy a set of "Summaron" lenses for landscapes?


They trying to put Cosina out of business? Well, they won't at that price.

That'd be a great $700 lens if it was "very good" quality. For that price. . . it'd have to be dead perfect.



Oct 17, 2016 at 09:17 PM
rscheffler
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Would you buy a set of "Summaron" lenses for landscapes?


For general outdoor use, it would be fine, though I think I would prefer f/4 for a bit more flexibility. I guess I'm more willing to pay Leica's prices for Crons and Luxes because of their broad usability. A lens like the 28/5.6 for me is much more specialized, meaning I'll still want a 28mm all-rounder. Between this and the cost of a 28 Cron, I've instead gone for the 28 Lux... the compromise being it's a large lens, and expensive.

The wider the lens, the more compact such a slow version apparently can be. It seems to make sense for 28mm. Probably also 35mm and anything wider. 50mm will probably still be fairly long. And we can get a good idea how a 90mm would look from the Macro-Elmar.

Kudos though to Leica for actually making the lens. I'm less enthusiastic about the retro looking design. It makes me wonder a bit about the lens's technical capability.



Oct 18, 2016 at 02:53 AM
JonPB
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Would you buy a set of "Summaron" lenses for landscapes?


I'd definitely give it a long look. If the Summaron 28 performs like the Elmar 24, it will be very appealing to me. (The advantage to me is the recessed front element, providing physical protection. The purpose of a small lens is to facilitate carrying where others might get in the way, so it'd probably see more abuse. I'd want to carry the Elmarit 28, for instance, with its hood permanently affixed, creating a large practical size advantage for the Summaron.) A 50mm or 75mm with comparable attributes would be equally appealing.

If this were April 1, though, I'd recommend Leica to come out with a modular kit that offers 21/28/35/50/75/90 lengths with different bodies and heads, a la the R telephoto system, so you could carry the whole kit in a size no larger than the single longest focal length, all with max apertures of f/8 or slower, and named the ... wait for it ... Luxigon.

(Yes, that's for "light" & "gone". Yes, I'm a fan of groaners.)

Cheers,
Jon



Oct 18, 2016 at 04:04 AM
alundeb
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Would you buy a set of "Summaron" lenses for landscapes?


rscheffler wrote:
For general outdoor use, it would be fine, though I think I would prefer f/4 for a bit more flexibility. I guess I'm more willing to pay Leica's prices for Crons and Luxes because of their broad usability. A lens like the 28/5.6 for me is much more specialized, meaning I'll still want a 28mm all-rounder. Between this and the cost of a 28 Cron, I've instead gone for the 28 Lux... the compromise being it's a large lens, and expensive.

The wider the lens, the more compact such a slow version apparently can be. It seems to make sense for
...Show more

For me, a 28 mm f/5.6 lens would need to have MTF much higher than the 28 Cron at f/5.6 across the frame to make it to my kit. The faster and smallish lenses are made with compromises even for stopped down performance. If a slower and slightly smaller prime lens doesn't have "perfect" optics, and still is expensive, I don't see the point at all for landscape. I would much rather just go with zooms then.



Oct 18, 2016 at 09:41 AM
mhespenheide
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Would you buy a set of "Summaron" lenses for landscapes?


I like the idea of smaller, lighter lenses that are optimized across the field -- but a 28mm f/5.6 lens would be hard to focus manually. Even a 35mm f/3.5 is notably more of a challenge than a f/2.8 35mm.


Oct 19, 2016 at 04:53 AM
rscheffler
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Would you buy a set of "Summaron" lenses for landscapes?


Err, it would be no problem to focus on it's intended system camera - a rangefinder camera. One of the benefits of RF is it doesn't matter how stopped down the lens is (or slow) or how opaque a filter on the lens is, because you're using a focus patch to focus rather than through the lens itself. And RF focusing is inherently very precise with wide angle lenses.

But I guess you're thinking of something outside the Leica M system.

BTW, just read a new post by Leica Rumors and looks like the 28/5.6 will be ~$2500 US... ouch.



Oct 19, 2016 at 05:27 AM
 

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alundeb
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Would you buy a set of "Summaron" lenses for landscapes?


Even such niche lenses are already considered for different applications. One with the primary purpose of keeping it small and light, and the other with the primary purpose of removing one lens design constraint, good performance at wide aprtures, in order to optimze performance at smaller apertures. For the latter purpose, the lens doesn't have to be slow. Just look at some 50 mm f/1.8 designs with superb performance at f/5.6 and very low weight.



Oct 19, 2016 at 06:47 AM
adamdewilde
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Would you buy a set of "Summaron" lenses for landscapes?


Lost on me. I much prefer the flexibility of the Summicron line. As they're optically fantastic and small enough for almost all purposes. And can be shot well into the dying light.

(Though I've now been told by several people at Leica HQ that I'm definitely not their target market, so who knows.)



Oct 19, 2016 at 06:51 AM
alundeb
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Would you buy a set of "Summaron" lenses for landscapes?


Even on 24 MP sensors, the zone dips in the f/5.6 MTF's of the summicron ASPH lenses are visible in images. The 28 cron is a particularly bad example, as the mid-field MTF drops significantly from f/2.8 to f/5.6. On 50 - 100 MP sensors for landscape they are just not going to cut it for me.




Oct 19, 2016 at 07:18 AM
joakim
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Would you buy a set of "Summaron" lenses for landscapes?



alundeb wrote:
Even on 24 MP sensors, the zone dips in the f/5.6 MTF's of the summicron ASPH lenses are visible in images. The 28 cron is a particularly bad example, as the mid-field MTF drops significantly from f/2.8 to f/5.6. On 50 - 100 MP sensors for landscape they are just not going to cut it for me.


The question that immediately comes to mind then is if there is a limit how small a lens can be and still perform excellent on a 50-100 mpix sensor without to much digital correction?



Oct 19, 2016 at 11:36 AM
retrofocus
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Would you buy a set of "Summaron" lenses for landscapes?


Still quite a steep price tag for a f/5.6 lens if I compare it to the price of a M lens from Voigtlander like the 12/5.6 for example. Still the small Summaron lens design makes it ideal for travel and hikes. For landscapes in daylight situations it will be fine, but for the price I could get the Leica 35/2 (non-ASPH)....


Oct 19, 2016 at 11:40 AM
alundeb
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Would you buy a set of "Summaron" lenses for landscapes?


joakim wrote:
The question that immediately comes to mind then is if there is a limit how small a lens can be and still perform excellent on a 50-100 mpix sensor without to much digital correction?


That's a good question and also why I indicated that there might be two uses of small aperture primes with conflicting interests. As small as possible with good performance or as good as possible while reasonably small for a 28 mm f/4.5 lens? I would only be interested in the latter.




Oct 19, 2016 at 11:46 AM
Steve Spencer
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Would you buy a set of "Summaron" lenses for landscapes?


For me, it would have to perform better than the 28 Elmarit Asph at similar aperture. That is already a tiny lens, but if this lens performed better at the same apertures, I would be interested. I have a 28 lux Asph, so my needs for a fast lens are looked after, but a super small lens could be nice for some situations.
At other focal lengths, I am less sure. You can't get much smaller than the collapsible 50 Elmar-M and the 90 Elmar-M Macro. So, again if you had a summaron that was slower it would have to outperform those lenses at similar apertures. I think the 50 would have a better chance as the Elmar-M is good, but better performance is certainly imaginable. At 35mm a summaron might be nice as I think it could both be smaller and a better performer than the 35 cron ASPH. I would especially like a 21 summaron if it could be significantly smaller than the 21 SEM. I doubt it would out perform that lens, but if it could perform in the same league and be smaller that would be interesting.



Oct 19, 2016 at 12:43 PM
Tmuussoni
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · Would you buy a set of "Summaron" lenses for landscapes?


alundeb wrote:
Even on 24 MP sensors, the zone dips in the f/5.6 MTF's of the summicron ASPH lenses are visible in images. The 28 cron is a particularly bad example, as the mid-field MTF drops significantly from f/2.8 to f/5.6. On 50 - 100 MP sensors for landscape they are just not going to cut it for me.



I am too lazy to check the MTFs but I own the V2 of Cron 28. It is my understanding that the mid-field MTF drop has greatly reduced in the updated version of the Cron. And it is a great performer. At least on 24MP .

Anyway, I don't see any point in buying this new Summaron 28. The latest Elmarit 28 ASPH is 180 g and Summaron is 154 g. And you lose two stops. Price is the same. What is the point? Size difference is marginal, at best. In other news it's way overpriced.


Edited on Oct 19, 2016 at 01:11 PM · View previous versions



Oct 19, 2016 at 01:01 PM
alundeb
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · Would you buy a set of "Summaron" lenses for landscapes?


The data sheet of the Summaron 28 just appeared.

http://us.leica-camera.com/Service-Support/Support/Downloads?category=93719&subcategory=&type=&language=93871

The MTF's are clear, this is not a landscape lens



Oct 19, 2016 at 01:04 PM
alundeb
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · Would you buy a set of "Summaron" lenses for landscapes?


Tmuussoni wrote:
I am too lazy to check the MTFs but I own the V2 of Cron 28. It is my understanding that the mid-field MTF drop has greatly reduced in the updated version of the Cron. And it is a great performer. At least on 24MP .



Sorry, somehow I was looking at f/2.8 MTF, that in the data sheet I downloaded from Leica is incorrectlly labeled as f/5.6. At f/5.6 it is excellent, no complaints



Oct 19, 2016 at 01:15 PM
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