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Archive 2016 · Canon users with 85 Otus or Milvus?
  
 
Lightpilgrim
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Canon users with 85 Otus or Milvus?


Hello all,

I am looking for a very bright 85 mm lens and I would most probably go for the 85L II had it not been an old design with many flaws compared to recent Zeiss offerings. I know Sigma is coming, but I am likely to skip it. I have a Sigma 35 Art and I know what it can and cannot do, I just to not want to have any issues with the most important lens for me, the 85 mm.

Optically, Otus is just a total awesomeness, something to dream about. I hear Milvus is super close. However, most pictures I have seen are the static photographs even though all people call it a portrait lens. Granted, nobody will take a MF lens to a wedding. I think this is more a studio, tripod type of a lens. Anyways, I wanted to ask you whethet you are aware of any commercial fashion and portraiture application for these lenses.

Any examples of folks using it for commercial portraits, fashion, people photography?

Seen most videos on Youtube, did not find anything.

regards.



Oct 14, 2016 at 01:13 PM
garyvot
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Canon users with 85 Otus or Milvus?


I don't own the Zeiss lenses you mention but I have rented and used several. Lack of autofocus relegates these lenses to the category of specialist optics for most of those who shoot anything that moves, I think.

I know you didn't ask for this, but in my opinion, for rendering, color, contrast, center sharpness and bokeh, it's still hard to beat the 85L II with anything that provides autofocus. The lens is far from perfect by modern standards, but CA can be mitigated in post processing rather effectively these days.

The new Sigma 85 Art is likely to be better corrected optically, but at a rather severe penalty of size and weight, and the loss of a third stop. If you are seeking the finest modern optical performance and weight and bulk are no issues, I might hold out to see how this lens tests. Autofocus would be a big win vs. the Zeiss lenses I think.

Good luck, and hopefully someone who uses these lenses can chime in.



Oct 14, 2016 at 01:22 PM
JohnBrose
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Canon users with 85 Otus or Milvus?


I don't have much to add to your search, but just had to laugh at your comment nobody will take a mf lens to a wedding. I and many others took and still take millions of wedding images with mf lenses-just takes some skill and timing. as far as a suggestion on lens-each lens is going to have pluses and minuses that you'll have to weigh and decide what works for you. I would go with the Canon 85 1.2 mk2 myself.


Oct 14, 2016 at 01:54 PM
ggreene
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Canon users with 85 Otus or Milvus?


It all comes down to your skill at manual focus as gear can be used for almost anything at all given the right photographer.

The only way I could do it is if I had access to focus peaking which makes MF much easier. You can still get replaceable focus screens as well if your camera supports it.

Otus lenses are a big investment. I would rent them and see how MF works out for your own type of shooting.



Oct 14, 2016 at 02:10 PM
jcolwell
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Canon users with 85 Otus or Milvus?


For tripod shooting, LiveView makes accurate focusing relatively easy.


Oct 14, 2016 at 02:13 PM
mogud
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Canon users with 85 Otus or Milvus?


Lightpilgrim wrote:
Hello all,

I am looking for a very bright 85 mm lens and I would most probably go for the 85L II had it not been an old design with many flaws compared to recent Zeiss offerings. I know Sigma is coming, but I am likely to skip it. I have a Sigma 35 Art and I know what it can and cannot do, I just to not want to have any issues with the most important lens for me, the 85 mm.

Optically, Otus is just a total awesomeness, something to dream about. I hear Milvus is super close. However, most
...Show more

I have to chime in about MF lenses as well. I shot all my weddings for ten years with only MF lenses. On the Zeiss Images forum, a member of that forum regularily posts photographs of basketball games shot with the Otus 55.

Regarding which 85..... I use the 85L II and it's one of my most used lens. I have no issues with focus-by-wire and my 85 II is very sharp wide open. Subject isolation is very good and bokeh is not busy/distracting to me eyes. I have the Otus 55 and it's a dream lens with silky smooth focus ring. AFAIK, the Otus 85 is a big heavy lens the last time I held one at a local show. I've seen images produced by the Milvus and while it is a re-design, I wouldn't say it's close to the Otus. They are similar for sure.

Old lens design to me is not a factor. It's what is produced by the lens. Of the three and if money was not an issue, I'd go with the Otus. Between the 85 II and the Milvus, the Milvus might be cleaner since the 85 II has a good deal of LoCal/fringing. I really like my 85 II and have good results. Hard to say which because I like both.

As always, YMMV. Good luck.




Oct 14, 2016 at 02:21 PM
Lightpilgrim
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Canon users with 85 Otus or Milvus?


Looks like I cannot reply to people till I reach 25 posts:-)


Oct 14, 2016 at 02:32 PM
Lightpilgrim
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Canon users with 85 Otus or Milvus?


Sorry, folks...I cannot answer to your individual posts till I reaxh 25 posts. I am sorry, I realize I was not very clear when I said about MF for weddings. For sure you can, it all depends on how and what you shoot. I was more thinking nailing perfect focus on eyes time and time again. I used to have Zeiss 35 f1.4 on my 5D MKIII and it was a nightmare. I am talking nailing focus on eyes.

I feel Canon is going to replace the 85L II rather sooner.



Oct 14, 2016 at 02:41 PM
philber
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Canon users with 85 Otus or Milvus?


My blog-partner owns and uses the Otus 85, and both of us tried and reviewed the Milvus. The milvus is very good indeed. Possibly a "better choice" than the otus if mony comes into the equation. Great colours, great 3D, gret detail, it has it all. What more do you get with the Otus. First, a bit better colour correction, since the Milvus, while it has very little CA is not really APO. Then and more importantly, the Otus has an amazing ability to differentiate spatially. It is also as close to neutral as any lens I know. Milvus may be a trifle more beautiful, but not as neutral. Focusing with it, you see the scene get in or out of focus as you turn the focusing ring. Otus has an amazing focusing ring, very smooth, with long throw and with deadly accuracy. On the other hand, because it is so accurate and discriminating, it requires you to focus exactly where you want it, or it will show...
Either way, two delightful lenses. Fellow member Mike Reid posts great pics with it.



Oct 14, 2016 at 02:41 PM
Lightpilgrim
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Canon users with 85 Otus or Milvus?


Thank you! Are you teferencing to this Mike?
http://mikereidphotography.com/
Did not see portraits there.



Oct 14, 2016 at 02:49 PM
 

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Robin Smith
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Canon users with 85 Otus or Milvus?


For portraits, I do not really understand the reluctance to get the Canon f1.2. This is an acclaimed classic used by 1000s of pros. You seem to be after the holy grail of "ultimate sharpness", which is only part of the equation. If the price worries you (in which case forget the Otus), then how about a s/h Canon?


Oct 14, 2016 at 03:14 PM
Daniel Smith
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Canon users with 85 Otus or Milvus?


Lightpilgrim wrote:
Hello all,

I am looking for a very bright 85 mm lens and I would most probably go for the 85L II had it not been an old design with many flaws compared to recent Zeiss offerings. I know Sigma is coming, but I am likely to skip it. I have a Sigma 35 Art and I know what it can and cannot do, I just to not want to have any issues with the most important lens for me, the 85 mm.

Optically, Otus is just a total awesomeness, something to dream about. I hear Milvus is super close. However, most
...Show more

Granted, nobody will take a MF lens to a wedding.

Why not? Hasselblads have done the job well for decades. Manual focus, fewer images than the 3,000 on a disc crowd and much higher quality while not having to worry so much.

You are obsessing over stuff that really does not matter. If you want highest quality in the prints get a 12x20 view camera and do carbon contact prints.



Oct 14, 2016 at 03:15 PM
Lightpilgrim
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Canon users with 85 Otus or Milvus?


Daniel, I tried to correct myself. I do bot use Leica or any other system that is designed fot MF. I use 5D MKIII and have a terrible experience of trying to nail the focus on eyes with Zeiss 35 f1.4. Just my experience. I do portraits mostly where I want 85. Landscapes sure, I always use MF. www.dylikowski.com


Oct 14, 2016 at 03:44 PM
Lightpilgrim
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Canon users with 85 Otus or Milvus?


P.S. Not worried about anything 85L related, but I have a feeling it will be replaced soon, so this is why I am hesitant to purchase a 10-year old lens. 35L II peoved to be a serious improvement over 35L.


Oct 14, 2016 at 04:09 PM
pahountisg
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Canon users with 85 Otus or Milvus?


Yes the 85L could be soon replaced but it still will be a good lens to have. Also I would expect the mk3 version to cost an arm and a leg at the first year or so in a typical canon fashion. I also have the 35 mm 1.4 L mk1 and you know what? It still rocks still a great lens.


Oct 14, 2016 at 04:45 PM
Tom_W
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Canon users with 85 Otus or Milvus?


I've still got the original 85L. Nice lens, though I don't use it very often.



Oct 14, 2016 at 05:18 PM
garyvot
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Canon users with 85 Otus or Milvus?


A lot of comments advocating the use of manual focus lenses. The problem is that modern DSLRs have horrible viewfinders for manual focus.

I grew up in the film era and worked as a photojournalist for years using manual focus cameras. I'm well acquainted with how to nail focus with manual gear. But the focusing screens in autofocus cameras are designed to improve brightness. They are ineffective at representing the focus effects of apertures wider than f/2.8 or so. OP, this is why you have struggled so much using your 5D Mark III. The Canon 5D Mark II and 6D are the last non 1-series cameras that can accept Type S focusing screens, which can help.

But without a special focusing screen, it is literally impossible to accurately focus fast lenses through the viewfinder of most modern SLRs.



Oct 14, 2016 at 05:30 PM
dtolios
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · Canon users with 85 Otus or Milvus?


^I agree. And its unfair to compare a MF focusing screen with Super Matte coatings / split image rangefinder, microprisms & magnifier assists (some of them cost in the <$300 range, just for the screen), with the vanilla focus screen most DSLRs have.

I have the Type S for the 6D...its not crazy better IMHO, and @ f/1.4, camera & subject shake will also come to play along with focus inaccuracy to prevent you from nailing the focus at the exact point.

Even Zebras on a EVF cannot really help you with 2/3 issues above, so assuming you can have "oMg" keeper rate shooting ANY lens with the DOF of a 85 1.4 or 1.2 on location, I would expect you to be dissapointed regardless of camera system.

AF and lately "eye-tracking" MILCs seem to have the advantage over MF tho.
I like to AF and recompose/micro-correct with MF on AF lenses that allow that.



Oct 14, 2016 at 06:55 PM
Pixel Perfect
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · Canon users with 85 Otus or Milvus?


Do yourself a favour, get the Milvus, so close to the Otus optically and better rendering. You can buy two Milvus for the price of 1 Otus


Oct 15, 2016 at 01:16 AM
DannyBurkPhoto
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · Canon users with 85 Otus or Milvus?


I have an Otus 85 for landscape. Perfect for that; I wouldn't try to use it at 1.4 and an OVF for moving subjects if I want more than sporadic success rate. I've tried it on a Sony A7RII (EVF) for my dogs, who are very active, and results were so bad that I gave up trying.


Oct 15, 2016 at 01:43 AM
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