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Archive 2016 · Maybe Canon should rethink their strategy of holding back...
  
 
howard
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Maybe Canon should rethink their strategy of holding back features


Looking at the A6500, it is rather breathtaking to see how many features they cram into this little body. No, nothing is truly groundbreaking -- IBIS, 4K are already existing, but that is precisely the point: Sony did not hold back and really "give it all".

Whereas Canon, as we have long known, always holds back features. The M5 hasn't even hit the market but it already looks outdated.

Maybe Canon should rethink their strategy, instead of worrying about how to hold back features and stratify their lineup, they really need to think how to outcompete the other manufacturers.

Just my $0.02.



Oct 06, 2016 at 06:11 PM
Adam Jones
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Maybe Canon should rethink their strategy of holding back features


As a Canon user, I won't argue that it's not frustrating, but I also wouldn't immediately attribute it to incompetence or malice.

I think it's possible that both Sony and Canon are implementing camera features based on their respective market-share positions, not unlike say, US cellular service providers T-Mobile vs. Verizon. Perhaps Sony packs features into their lower-end cameras because for every sale they might cannibalize from their own higher-end cameras, they'll more than make up for it by attracting users from other brands. Canon would probably lose more than they would gain -- or at least they seem to think so -- by doing the same.

There's a reason Verizon isn't rushing to offer unlimited data to all of its existing customers in the US -- they don't have to, as they already have a valid argument as to why their customers should use them. Ultimately, Canon may be forced to meet Sony's challenge head-on, but obviously they aren't feeling the squeeze enough to do so just yet.



Oct 06, 2016 at 06:19 PM
howard
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Maybe Canon should rethink their strategy of holding back features


Adam Jones wrote:
As a Canon user, I won't argue that it's not frustrating, but I also wouldn't immediately attribute it to incompetence or malice.

I think it's possible that both Sony and Canon are implementing camera features based on their respective market-share positions, not unlike say, US cellular service providers T-Mobile vs. Verizon. Perhaps Sony packs features into their lower-end cameras because for every sale they might cannibalize from their own higher-end cameras, they'll more than make up for it by attracting users from other brands. Canon would probably lose more than they would gain -- or at least they seem
...Show more

Good point. Market leaders are in a way at a disadvantage as you described, as they literally have "more to lose", as that is by definition what market leaders have. But in the long run, if they keep tying their own hands, new comers will overtake them.



Oct 06, 2016 at 06:24 PM
Sorbet
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Maybe Canon should rethink their strategy of holding back features


howard wrote:
Looking at the A6500, it is rather breathtaking to see how many features they cram into this little body. No, nothing is truly groundbreaking -- IBIS, 4K are already existing, but that is precisely the point: Sony did not hold back and really "give it all".

Whereas Canon, as we have long known, always holds back features. The M5 hasn't even hit the market but it already looks outdated.

Maybe Canon should rethink their strategy, instead of worrying about how to hold back features and stratify their lineup, they really need to think how to outcompete the other manufacturers.

Just my $0.02.


Sony mirrorless cameras lack a heck of a lot features that I want, so I could not care less about Sony.



Oct 06, 2016 at 06:30 PM
charlyw
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Maybe Canon should rethink their strategy of holding back features


Well, I rather have real innovation like DPRAW and flicker synchronization than a chimera if a camera crammed full of mediocre "me too" features to tick advertising boxes but which turn out to be less tan useful because of the shoddy implementation - like the Sony 4k pocket furnace or their SLT autofocus which only works half baked at any speed over 3 fps, or their lossy RAW compression, or their quarter of a second viewfinder blackout in the A7RII or the complete operational lockup after you had the audacity to take a series of photos or the fallback to 12 bit A/D conversion under all sorts of circumstances (bulb, series, silent rolling shutter, you name it, result incontinent image quality which invalidates any workflow)...

Thanks but no thanks, the Sony caneras don't get the basics right, so all the featuritis is just marketing...



Oct 06, 2016 at 06:35 PM
adamx12m
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Maybe Canon should rethink their strategy of holding back features


IMO, I think Canon relies to much upon it's brand and market share to create outperforming products. If Canon didn't have some of the best lens, most people would leave the family. Just a matter of time when 3rd party lens makers close the gap against Canon. It's taken Sony a long time to rebuild it's brand with gaming (playstation), tv's, and now camera's with one iteration after another and the plan is working. Similar with Samsung with 7 iterations of smartphones to finally compete with an iPhone. Buyers are smarter and willing to buy into other brands to accommodate there needs and specs still matter.

With innovation, it's surprising Canon doesn't compete in markets like gopro's, drones, and 360 camera's. Nothing really makes sense with there camera strategy.




Oct 06, 2016 at 06:59 PM
Snopchenko
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Maybe Canon should rethink their strategy of holding back features


The price AND the US/Europe price rates are insane. Body only $1400 but 1700... what the heck were they smoking (or did the $/ ratio get flipped overnight). I had a couple more gripes as an almost Sony user (the wife has a NEX-3 that I gave her years ago, and has put it to a good use but the Canon 650D destroyed it), but I forgot what they were precisely.

Ah yes, and whatever happened to their promise to only release at least one body and at least one lens at the same time?



Oct 06, 2016 at 07:00 PM
Imagemaster
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Maybe Canon should rethink their strategy of holding back features


Seems Canon's strategy is working quite well, which is why myself and many others continue to purchase their products. I have yet to see a Sony camera that I want.


Oct 06, 2016 at 07:04 PM
chez
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Maybe Canon should rethink their strategy of holding back features


howard wrote:
Good point. Market leaders are in a way at a disadvantage as you described, as they literally have "more to lose", as that is by definition what market leaders have. But in the long run, if they keep tying their own hands, new comers will overtake them.


happens to market leaders all the time...they become complacent with their market and by the time they can react to the industry...they are in termoil.

Love them or hate them...Sony and now Fuji are pushing the big boys into territories they don't like.



Oct 06, 2016 at 07:04 PM
jcolwell
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Maybe Canon should rethink their strategy of holding back features


Snopchenko wrote:
The price AND the US/Europe price rates are insane. Body ... 1700...


Doe the 1700 price include VAT ?



Oct 06, 2016 at 07:04 PM
 

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chez
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Maybe Canon should rethink their strategy of holding back features


Sorbet wrote:
Sony mirrorless cameras lack a heck of a lot features that I want, so I could not care less about Sony.


And the M5 has these features...can you name them?



Oct 06, 2016 at 07:05 PM
snapsy
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Maybe Canon should rethink their strategy of holding back features


They all hold back features and then mete them out. Sony held back IBIS and touchscreen on the A6300, the predecessor to the A6500 that came out just 8 months ago. It's all about measured iteration, to keep the motivation carrot dangling at all times.


Oct 06, 2016 at 07:27 PM
Sorbet
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Maybe Canon should rethink their strategy of holding back features


chez wrote:
happens to market leaders all the time...they become complacent with their market and by the time they can react to the industry...they are in termoil.

Love them or hate them...Sony and now Fuji are pushing the big boys into territories they don't like.


Sony can give their best mirrorless camera a bazillion focus points, but can't even figure out that a joystick would be a useful feature to select them. How's that for innovation: a joystick. And while Fuji has just recently figured out how to build a joystick on their X-T2 and X-Pro2, they still can't give their cameras a feature that every Canon DSLR has had for the past 15 years: a setting to prevent shooting without a memory card. Fuji users often say that Fuji is a company that "listens to its customers". But sadly they seem to be listening to some bizarre customers who want to preserve the ultimate embarrassment for photographers: shooting those once-in-a-lifetime pics without any storage media in the camera!!! Somehow, not one of that impressive braintrust of Fuji X Ambassadors can convince Fuji to add a feature to prevent shooting without a card. But Fuji always includes a menu feature to absolutely lock and prevent shooting without a lens. Because that's a huge problem for photographers: shooting without lens.


Edited on Oct 06, 2016 at 08:18 PM · View previous versions



Oct 06, 2016 at 08:11 PM
howard
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Maybe Canon should rethink their strategy of holding back features


Sorbet wrote:
Sony can give their best mirrorless camera a bazillion focus points, but can't even figure out that a joystick would be a useful feature to select them. How's that for innovation: a joystick. And while Fuji has just recently figured out how to build a joystick on their X-T2 and X-Pro2, they still can't give their cameras something that every Canon DSLR has had for the past 15 years: a setting to prevent shooting without a memory card. Fuji users often say that Fuji is a company that "listens to its customers". But sadly they seem to be listening to
...Show more

What's wrong with shooting without a memory card?



Oct 06, 2016 at 08:13 PM
Sorbet
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Maybe Canon should rethink their strategy of holding back features


howard wrote:
What's wrong with shooting without a memory card?


Haha. Have you been giving advice to Fuji?



Oct 06, 2016 at 08:17 PM
Sorbet
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Maybe Canon should rethink their strategy of holding back features


chez wrote:
And the M5 has these features...can you name them?


Who cares about the M5? The M5 is a pipsqueak in the EOS line. I'm talking about excellent features of Canon's DSLRs, such as beautiful always-on optical viewfinders, outstanding ergonomics, speedy AF and operation, incredible battery life, radio remote flashes, anti-flicker in flourescent light, an amazing 24-70/2.8 lens (smaller, lighter, cheaper & better than Sony's), a superb 24-70/4IS lens, etc. ... I won't list them all because it would take too long!



Oct 06, 2016 at 08:32 PM
Iwas joeking
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Maybe Canon should rethink their strategy of holding back features


The reason why Sony crams in tons of features is because they have to, at least if they want to dent the market owned by Canon. You can't take market share by offering the same thing so they are throwing everything they can into the fray. I've used many Sony cameras and currently have an A6000 series. They are certainly nice cameras but I won't be giving up my Canon's for a long time. Battery life, ergonomics, lens selection(IMO the weakest link in the full frame Sony lineup), proper RAW files and so on will keep me in Canon's camp for the foreseeable future.


Oct 06, 2016 at 08:52 PM
ZhanMing12
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · Maybe Canon should rethink their strategy of holding back features


Sorbet wrote:
Sony can give their best mirrorless camera a bazillion focus points, but can't even figure out that a joystick would be a useful feature to select them. How's that for innovation: a joystick. And while Fuji has just recently figured out how to build a joystick on their X-T2 and X-Pro2, they still can't give their cameras a feature that every Canon DSLR has had for the past 15 years: a setting to prevent shooting without a memory card. Fuji users often say that Fuji is a company that "listens to its customers". But sadly they seem to be listening
...Show more

For that matter, I can't live without the ability to fire without a card on my A7rII. I test fire bodies with settings dialed in before putting the card in, and then I start shooting without any useless frames on the card. With the 7rII each click is ~90m on loseless RAW, so it's always good to have the option of not keeping those frames.




Oct 06, 2016 at 08:59 PM
Snopchenko
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · Maybe Canon should rethink their strategy of holding back features


jcolwell wrote:
Does the 1700 price include VAT ?

No idea - it could vary by country, but if a quoted price doesn't include VAT... good grief.
Over here one can never see a price without VAT. Sometimes you can find it in the receipts - a footnote along the lines of "... that includes **** VAT". Most of the time, you could be forgiven for thinking it doesn't exist.



Oct 06, 2016 at 09:10 PM
chez
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · Maybe Canon should rethink their strategy of holding back features


Sorbet wrote:
Who cares about the M5? The M5 is a pipsqueak in the EOS line. I'm talking about excellent features of Canon's DSLRs, such as beautiful always-on optical viewfinders, outstanding ergonomics, speedy AF and operation, incredible battery life, radio remote flashes, anti-flicker in flourescent light, an amazing 24-70/2.8 lens (smaller, lighter, cheaper & better than Sony's), a superb 24-70/4IS lens, etc. ... I won't list them all because it would take too long!


Since the 6500 came up which is a crop Mirrorless camera, the logical choice to compare is the Canon equivalent offering, the M5. Surely you aren't thinking about comparing the 6500 to the 1dx2 now are you...that would just flatter the 6500 to be mentioned in the same sentence.



Oct 06, 2016 at 09:11 PM
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