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Archive 2016 · Sony could learn so much
  
 
Viramati
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Sony could learn so much


Just take a look at the amount of upgrades the fuji offer in their update for my X-Pro2 (20 in all). This is really one of the areas where Sony really lag behind and could do so much to to improve the user experience such as updating Auto iso settings in the A7II to equal those of the the A7rII, assign more functions to the fn menu etc. Anyway rather than moaning here I suggest we all contact Sony customer care asking for more functional updates

Here is the fuji list, impressive:-

X-Pro2 New Features Guide[Ver.2.00]
-- Select a language --
OK
1. The NUMBER OF THE FOCUS POINT has incerased.(*)
The options available are 91 POINTS(7x13) and 325 POINTS(13x25) on the NUMBER OF THE FOCUS POINT of the AF/MF SETTING in the Shooting Menu.
2. Improvement of phase detection AF accuracy.
By employing the new AF algorithm used in the X-T2, the AF accuracy has been improved.
3. AF tracking function has been improved when CONTINUOUS L in the AF-C mode.
4. In AF-C mode, AE function will work while pressing the shutter button halfway.
5. AF tracking function works while CONTINUOUS shooting in the AF-C mode with the Electronic Shutter.
6. AF tracking function works while CONTINUOUS H shooting in the AF-C mode instead of zone AF.
7. STILL IMAGE(single frame shooting) is available when CONTINUOUS L in the AF-C mode.
8. The focus point of Eye Detection AF has been changed to the eye closer to the camera.
9. Compatibility with the Shoe Mount Flash EF-X500.(*)
Additional functions like the multi-flash lighting, high-speed flash sync and so on can be used with the EF-X500.
Accordingly, the FLASH SETTING and the Shooting Menu is dramatically changed.
10. The items that can be assigned to the Quick Menu have changed.(*)
FLASH FUNCTION SETTINGS and FLASH COMPENSATION have been added due to the compatibility with the Shoe Mount Flash EF-X500.
11. The roles that can be assigned to the Function buttons have changed.(*)
FLASH FUNCTION SETTINGS, TTL-LOCK and MODELING FLASH have been added due to the compatibility with the Shoe Mount Flash EF-X500.
12. Addition of AUTO POWER SAVE.(*)
AUTO POWER SAVE option has been added to the POWER MANAGEMENT of the Setup Menu. Select ON to save the power consumption and make the battery life longer.
13. Addition of setting time in AUTO POWER OFF.(*)
15 SEC, 30 SEC and 1 MIN have been added to the AUTO POWER OFF of the POWER MANAGEMENT in the Setup Menu.
14. S.S OPERATION option has been added to BUTTON/DIAL SETTING in the Setup Menu.(*)
Select OFF to disable the shutter-speed fine-tuning using the command dials.
15. Change of the CORRECTED AF FRAME in the OVF.(*)
Specification of the CORRECTED AF FRAME of AF/MF SETTING in the Shooting Menu has been changed.
·OFF:The frame moves according to parallax to show the focus point.
·ON:The CORRECTED AF FRAME in the OVF is fixed on the recommended value described in the Owner's manual. If the minimum focus range of the attached lens is greater than the recommended value, the frame is displayed on the position of the minimum focus range.
*Upgrade the firmware of the lenses after the firmware of the camera is upgraded.
Camera Body / Lens Firmware Compatibility Table
16. The phenomenon is fixed that in rare cases the magnification of the OVF doesn't switch appropriately when a lens is changed.
17. The bright frame movement in the OVF has become more smoothly while zooming in and out.
18. OIS function has been improved while using Electronic Shutter.
19. The phenomenon is fixed that in rare cases frames of live view on a smartphone drop while using the application software "FUJIFILM Camera Remote".
20. The phenomenon is fixed that exposure sometimes doesn't change appropriately in Aperture Priority AE while using an M MOUNT ADAPTER.



Oct 06, 2016 at 07:11 AM
justruss
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Sony could learn so much


I always enjoyed Fuji's regular, feature-enhancing, function-enhancing firmware updates, but...

I suspect it has as much to do with "philosophy" as it does with a weakness turned by marketing and clever thinking into a so-called strength: Fuji focuses on software because it doesn't have the means to focus on hardware advances with any kind of frequency.

If you don't have the human or budget power to keep working on new hardware at a quick pace-- for much less investment in time/people/capital you can keep squeezing improvements out of software. And that makes a slower hardware schedule feel less like stagnation.

That's not to say Sony can't learn anything! Sony went from really lacking on firmware updates-- to moderately better (read: still lacking, but moving in the right direction). Firmware updates on the mk2 bodies have had very strong functional/feature improvements, from uncompressed RAW, to AF improvements (particularly the FE 50mm f/1.8), to startup times.

I suggest we keep lobbying for more improvement from Sony on that front. But let's keep some perspective too. Also, stepping back it's possible to see that Sony's entry into FF mirrorless involved a lot of flailing around in the dark to see what's there in the market and what will take hold. The mk2 bodies still reflect a little bit of that, but they also reflect a maturation in terms of hardware, functionality, and market understanding. It's maturing, and I expect it will continue. And as that maturation continues, I suspect we'll see growing replacement cycle times-- and growing attention to firmware to keep those longer hardware cycles from feeling too much like stagnation. But... we're not quite there yet. Maybe in another generation or two.

Fuji kinda doesn't have much choice on this. I think that given their hardware cycles-- their firmware approach is a brilliant bit of marketing (I don't mean that negatively) and a great way to keep customers interested/happy.



Oct 06, 2016 at 08:11 AM
realVivek
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Sony could learn so much


David, that is not the only area (FW updates) sony lags behind. The farmed out repair centers with inadequate expertise is another. I told sony when they asked me for my feedback after the RX1R II fiasco, specifically mentioning Fuji.

The Fuji GFX is already specd a cut above anything Sony have to offer...



Oct 06, 2016 at 09:20 AM
TMaG82
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Sony could learn so much


There's always two sides to look at this. I'm with the camp that believes that Fuji along with Olympus (The E-M1 at launch looks almost nothing like it now at FW 4.0), Ricoh, etc are doing a great service to their customers by continuing to improve what they release. I think this just promotes loyalty because if they continue to take care of their customers, they show a commitment to their products. You could argue that while Sony seems to doing so with their release of a 6500, you could also say that they're just trying to gouge their customers into buying new products all the time at an increased cost.

You'll have those that say that Fuji is putting out a product before its ready and the firmware updates are needed to help stabilize a bets product though. That seems to be the most common argument from Fuji haters.



Oct 06, 2016 at 09:56 AM
mogul
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Sony could learn so much


No one makes Sony customers upgrade, my nex 7 and rx100 still take pictures and for the life of me don't need bug fixes. Fuji does a much better job of supporting their cameras with good cropped lenses though, Sony is just spread too thin on the lens making front.


Oct 06, 2016 at 10:29 AM
chez
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Sony could learn so much


realVivek wrote:
The Fuji GFX is already specd a cut above anything Sony have to offer...


Including price...



Oct 06, 2016 at 02:15 PM
realVivek
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Sony could learn so much


chez wrote:
Including price...


Is it known?

FWIW, i am on my 3rd RX1R II and it currently costs €4,199/-. I am not sure how long this will last.

(Your location brings back fond memories of BC! )



Oct 06, 2016 at 02:23 PM
darrellc
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Sony could learn so much


Sony has always delivered firmware updates in the form of new hardware. Just a corporate cultural thing and choice to apply engineering resources to new product development vs sustaining engineering.

They do release firmware updates when required for competitive reasons (like the video codec updates for the RX10 and A6000).

Nothing new for Sony... I really liked Sony Vaio laptops back in my Windows PC days, but their lack of post sales support (as opposed to IBM/Lenovo or even Dell) for firmware updates and support for future Windows releases drove me nuts.

Sony just doesn't do firmware updates I guess...



Oct 06, 2016 at 03:24 PM
TheEmrys
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Sony could learn so much


Nope. Sony doesn't do a firmware update that is anything but necessary. The lone exception was when my a7II got pdaf for my a-mount lenses. That was the first time I felt like a Fuji owner - meaningful upgrade.

And it is nice to look down the road on my XT2 and wonder how much improved it will be in 2 years. Never could do that with Sony.



Oct 06, 2016 at 03:54 PM
mogul
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Sony could learn so much


Wouldn't it be nice if Sony and Fuji (not unheard of in Japanese business culture) got together with Fuji supplying lenses to Sony's cropped sensor cameras. Fuji may not have the capacity to go mainstream from a rather niche market.


Oct 06, 2016 at 03:59 PM
 

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snapsy
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Sony could learn so much


Sony likely doesn't do interim firmware updates due to their very fast product cycles - their engineers are always working on the next product. A good solution then would be for Sony to open up their embedded OS platform so that independent developers can add their own features, ala Magic Lantern. That way we get new features while Sony doesn't have to commit resources to achieve them.


Oct 06, 2016 at 04:08 PM
TheEmrys
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Sony could learn so much


That would be amazing.

I just wish everyone doing mirrorless just used the same mount. How cool would that have been? Fuji, Sony, Leica, Olympus, and Panasonic, all using the same mount. Mix and match to your heart's content.

The funny thing is that aside from the 4/3's crowd, everyone could have made an e mount body. Sony opened up the design. We could have had Sony, Fuji, and Leica all on e mount. And yeah, it is more complex than that. But the precedent exists with Pentax and.... Topcon? making Nikon F mount compatible bodies and glass.

mogul wrote:
Wouldn't it be nice if Sony and Fuji (not unheard of in Japanese business culture) got together with Fuji supplying lenses to Sony's cropped sensor cameras. Fuji may not have the capacity to go mainstream from a rather niche market.




Oct 06, 2016 at 04:32 PM
hiepphotog
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Sony could learn so much


TheEmrys wrote:
That would be amazing.

I just wish everyone doing mirrorless just used the same mount. How cool would that have been? Fuji, Sony, Leica, Olympus, and Panasonic, all using the same mount. Mix and match to your heart's content.

The funny thing is that aside from the 4/3's crowd, everyone could have made an e mount body. Sony opened up the design. We could have had Sony, Fuji, and Leica all on e mount. And yeah, it is more complex than that. But the precedent exists with Pentax and.... Topcon? making Nikon F mount compatible bodies and glass.



I don't think it's a good situation for customers. A unified mount would easily lead to one player controlling the whole market.



Oct 06, 2016 at 04:37 PM
snapsy
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Sony could learn so much


hiepphotog wrote:
I don't think it's a good situation for customers. A unified mount would easily lead to one player controlling the whole market.


It could be a public domain mount specification, or at least one where there is no licensing fee to use such as what Sony did with E-Mount.


Edited on Oct 06, 2016 at 04:46 PM · View previous versions



Oct 06, 2016 at 04:46 PM
sflxn
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Sony could learn so much


Uh, Sony just released a giant firmware update today! You just have to pay $1400 for it . There might be another firmware coming in 6 months. 😆


Oct 06, 2016 at 04:46 PM
GabrielPhoto
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Sony could learn so much


realVivek wrote:
David, that is not the only area (FW updates) sony lags behind. The farmed out repair centers with inadequate expertise is another. I told sony when they asked me for my feedback after the RX1R II fiasco, specifically mentioning Fuji.

The Fuji GFX is already specd a cut above anything Sony have to offer...


I had to double check if I was i the wrong forum because all this nonsense Fuji fanboysim in the Sony area...what is the point? you love Fuji so much with their tiny sensors and fake ISOs that apparently still fool some naive users, then be my guest. But post in YOUR area. This is for Sony users...we dont care.
The fact is when you buy a camera you KNOW what it features...you make a decision at that time if the features are worth your money or not. Any updates after that are just a bonus.



Oct 06, 2016 at 04:52 PM
realVivek
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Sony could learn so much


shaolin95 wrote:
I had to double check if I was i the wrong forum because all this nonsense Fuji fanboysim in the Sony area...what is the point? you love Fuji so much with their tiny sensors and fake ISOs that apparently still fool some naive users, then be my guest. But post in YOUR area. This is for Sony users...we dont care.
The fact is when you buy a camera you KNOW what it features...you make a decision at that time if the features are worth your money or not. Any updates after that are just a bonus.


You are from mars!? I am more of a sony user than you ever would be. .



Oct 06, 2016 at 05:28 PM
GabrielPhoto
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · Sony could learn so much


realVivek wrote:
You are from mars!? I am more of a sony user than you ever would be. .


And my dad is bigger than yours...is that the level of conversation you can handle based on your above comment?
I am a Sony user today because it offers the best IQ, features etc. If someone tomorrows offers better, I will change because nobody gives me gear for free so being a fanboy is just dumb.
I will leave you to keep on with this "interesting" thread.
Any mods want to move this to the Fuji area where it belongs?



Oct 06, 2016 at 05:40 PM
realVivek
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · Sony could learn so much


I think you misread and post that do not make much sense.

Who are you again to assume and question that I am not a Sony user?



Oct 06, 2016 at 05:47 PM
GMPhotography
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · Sony could learn so much


realVivek wrote:
I think you misread and post that do not make much sense.

Who are you again to assume and question that I am not a Sony user?

I
Vivek is a big time Sony user and any critism a user has towards it is usually a valued one. I have plenty of points to bring up on Sony but I'll buy a load more tomorrow too. These are not perfect systems and Sony is addressing many issues lately. User feedback good or bad is valued as it makes the OEMs listen to these concerns.



Oct 06, 2016 at 05:52 PM
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