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Front-End Filter Improves Corner Smearing
  
 
GMPhotography
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p.53 #1 · p.53 #1 · Front-End Filter Improves Corner Smearing


When it gets to F4 it's very clean across the frame. I don't mind the little dip since usually I use wider open shots for more creative type shooting so mid frame and corners are not a big priority but on the same hand at F4 it's very good across frame and without the .5 it's a F6.7 lens so the gain here is very good


Feb 23, 2017 at 07:10 PM
navmannz
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p.53 #2 · p.53 #2 · Front-End Filter Improves Corner Smearing


I also received a filter in the mail today, and just to satisfy my curiosity, put my A7RII with ZM 35 on the tripod, took two shots at 1.4 and 2.8, and then repeated with the filter handheld in front. I had my TAP on, and could get to within a whisker of infinity and was blown away by the improvement. Now for finding the most elegant way to mount it, including a discussion with previously mentioned optometrist.

Thanks all, HaruhikoT and Fred in particular, for the encouragement that your various demos have provided.

-John



Feb 24, 2017 at 12:52 AM
rji2goleez
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p.53 #3 · p.53 #3 · Front-End Filter Improves Corner Smearing


Funny, I also received my pcx filter today. Unfortunately, I'm away for the weekend!


Feb 24, 2017 at 02:33 AM
teeraash
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p.53 #4 · p.53 #4 · Front-End Filter Improves Corner Smearing


I still cannot find worthwhile filter for Leica 50mm: cron V, Summilux asph and pre asph. If anyone has pcx 3m and these lenses, could you please try it out? Thanks.


Feb 24, 2017 at 03:44 AM
robgo2
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p.53 #5 · p.53 #5 · Front-End Filter Improves Corner Smearing


Mine may not be the most elegant method of modifying the ZM 35, but it works and is relatively inexpensive, mainly because it does not involve the Zeiss OEM hood, for which I refuse to pay the exorbitant price. What I have done is not particularly original, except that I use a 52-58mm stepup ring topped by a 58mm filter ring. This combination does not vignette and serves as a decent lens hood. Then a 58mm clip-on lens cap seals the deal. Finally, I don't think that it looks bad at all.

So, the setup is 49-55mm stepup > PCX 5m > 55-52mm stepdown > 52mm retaining ring > 52-58mm stepup > 58mm empty filter ring > 58mm lens cap

Rob












Feb 24, 2017 at 05:22 PM
Fred Miranda
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p.53 #6 · p.53 #6 · Front-End Filter Improves Corner Smearing


I'm finally happy with my set-up.

I am able to use the original hood with more filters without vignetting. Removing the hood allows me to use square filters like the Lee Seven5.

Start with a blank slim 49mm. Then add the hood. After attach the 49-55mm step up ring + blank 55mm with a thick 55mm retention ring. (I use the ELPRO3)

Here is a quick picture of the set-up:





  DSC-RX1RM2    35mm F2.0 lens    35mm    f/8.0    3s    100 ISO    +0.3 EV  






  DSC-RX1RM2    35mm F2.0 lens    35mm    f/2.8    1/60s    4000 ISO    +0.3 EV  




Feb 24, 2017 at 05:42 PM
HaruhikoT
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p.53 #7 · p.53 #7 · Front-End Filter Improves Corner Smearing


Hi @BastianK and @Phillip Reeve,

I've just uploaded raw files of ZM35/1.4 + Opto 5m shots at F1.4 & infinity.
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B1BhTESBmBxoVXVNS3lGNWNuRW8

Your mentioned "midzone dip" also appears in my copy.
Compared to the center, sharpness goes lower in the area 50-80% off center, then around 90% off center, it goes higher again.
And I also see upper-right midzone is slightly worse than lower-left midzone.
I'd carefully checked my filter centering using @scrappydog's method, so perhaps my ZM35 is not a best copy...

But I have to say, even in the midzone, sharpness seems to be not worse than without PCX.
And as Guy mentioned, I also see midzone goes best at F4 or higher, whereas it is not that good without PCX below F8.

In my conclusion, there is no doubt PCX 5m improves ZM35/1.4's overall sharpness, but still have a little weakness at wider aperture.



Feb 25, 2017 at 01:31 PM
GMPhotography
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p.53 #8 · p.53 #8 · Front-End Filter Improves Corner Smearing


Finally we got it. Lol

Fred Miranda wrote:
I'm finally happy with my set-up.

I am able to use the original hood with more filters without vignetting. Removing the hood allows me to use square filters like the Lee Seven5.

Start with a blank slim 49mm. Then add the hood. After attach the 49-55mm step up ring + blank 55mm with a thick 55mm retention ring. (I use the ELPRO3)

Here is a quick picture of the set-up:




Feb 25, 2017 at 02:49 PM
GMPhotography
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p.53 #9 · p.53 #9 · Front-End Filter Improves Corner Smearing


On the overall it really does improve it so I believe it's worth the effort. As Fred mentioned very little downside and I totally agree. Fred's setup and mine are identical now the last filter a Tiffin 55 UV without the glass has texture knobs so it's easier to get on and off . I'm in NY I shot almost everything yesterday with my ZM 25 as really outside if testing I got to shoot it. Looks good so far. I'll post some images when I get home

HaruhikoT wrote:
Hi @BastianK@@@ and @Phillip Reeve@@@,

I've just uploaded raw files of ZM35/1.4 + Opto 5m shots at F1.4 & infinity.
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B1BhTESBmBxoVXVNS3lGNWNuRW8

Your mentioned "midzone dip" also appears in my copy.
Compared to the center, sharpness goes lower in the area 50-80% off center, then around 90% off center, it goes higher again.
And I also see upper-right midzone is slightly worse than lower-left midzone.
I'd carefully checked my filter centering using @scrappydog@@@'s method, so perhaps my ZM35 is not a best copy...

But I have to say, even in the midzone, sharpness seems to be not worse than without PCX.
And as Guy mentioned, I also see
...Show more



Feb 25, 2017 at 02:53 PM
Makten
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p.53 #10 · p.53 #10 · Front-End Filter Improves Corner Smearing


Forgive me, but why do all of you use so many different filter rings? Why not just a simple step-up ring, then the lens element, and something to hold it in place?


Feb 25, 2017 at 03:10 PM
 

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p.53 #11 · p.53 #11 · Front-End Filter Improves Corner Smearing


Yesterday I tested the PCX 5m on the ZM 50/1.5C and resolution towards the corners was noticeably worse with the front-lens at close distance (4m). I will test it at infinity but from my initial tests, I don't believe this will be a winning combo.


Feb 25, 2017 at 03:23 PM
Fred Miranda
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p.53 #12 · p.53 #12 · Front-End Filter Improves Corner Smearing


GMPhotography wrote:
On the overall it really does improve it so I believe it's worth the effort. As Fred mentioned very little downside and I totally agree. Fred's setup and mine are identical now the last filter a Tiffin 55 UV without the glass has texture knobs so it's easier to get on and off . I'm in NY I shot almost everything yesterday with my ZM 25 as really outside if testing I got to shoot it. Looks good so far. I'll post some images when I get home

Yes, the crucial filter is the last blank Tiffen 55mm followed by the ELPRO 55mm thick retaining ring.
The Tiffen has a textured surface, allowing easy screw/unscrew of the step-up set-up filter the hood is attached.

Thanks for the Tiffen tip @GMPhotography! The ELPRO retaining ring idea came from @HaruhikoT
Because of this thread we were able to find a very elegant solution for the ZM 35/1.4!
Thank you all.



Feb 25, 2017 at 03:26 PM
GMPhotography
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p.53 #13 · p.53 #13 · Front-End Filter Improves Corner Smearing


If we could get some improvement in the mid zone I would buy this lens back. I had some shooting issues with it even at F5.6 off center so a little tough with a small group of people but I love the look

Fred Miranda wrote:
Yesterday I tested the PCX 5m on the ZM 50/1.5C and resolution towards the corners was noticeably worse with the front-lens at close distance (4m). I will test it at infinity but from my initial tests, I don't believe this will be a winning combo.




Feb 25, 2017 at 03:32 PM
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p.53 #14 · p.53 #14 · Front-End Filter Improves Corner Smearing


GMPhotography wrote:
If we could get some improvement in the mid zone I would buy this lens back. I had some shooting issues with it even at F5.6 off center so a little tough with a small group of people but I love the look

Unfortunately there is no improvement anywhere in the frame at distances I actually use this lens. (1m until about 4m)



Feb 25, 2017 at 03:35 PM
sebboh
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p.53 #15 · p.53 #15 · Front-End Filter Improves Corner Smearing




Makten wrote:
Forgive me, but why do all of you use so many different filter rings? Why not just a simple step-up ring, then the lens element, and something to hold it in place?


i think because they want to the oem hood?




Feb 25, 2017 at 05:19 PM
GMPhotography
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p.53 #16 · p.53 #16 · Front-End Filter Improves Corner Smearing


Correct

sebboh wrote:
i think because they want to the oem hood?





Feb 25, 2017 at 05:37 PM
Fred Miranda
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p.53 #17 · p.53 #17 · Front-End Filter Improves Corner Smearing


sebboh wrote:
i think because they want to the oem hood?


Also, because we want to eventually add additional filters (ND, CPOL, etc.) without causing vignetting. It was a trial and error attempt to come up with the optimal set-up.

For those who do not care about using the OEM hood or additional filters, a simple 49-55, 55-52 + 52 retention ring will do the trick.



Feb 25, 2017 at 06:16 PM
navmannz
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p.53 #18 · p.53 #18 · Front-End Filter Improves Corner Smearing


HaruhikoT wrote:
Hi @BastianK@ and @Phillip Reeve@,

I've just uploaded raw files of ZM35/1.4 + Opto 5m shots at F1.4 & infinity.
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B1BhTESBmBxoVXVNS3lGNWNuRW8

Your mentioned "midzone dip" also appears in my copy.
Compared to the center, sharpness goes lower in the area 50-80% off center, then around 90% off center, it goes higher again.
And I also see upper-right midzone is slightly worse than lower-left midzone.
I'd carefully checked my filter centering using @scrappydog@'s method, so perhaps my ZM35 is not a best copy...

But I have to say, even in the midzone, sharpness seems to be not worse than without PCX.
And as Guy mentioned, I also see
...Show more

Yesterday I tested my ZM 35 at infinity focus across a range of apertures with my filter which arrived Friday - it mirrors exactly the behaviour you describe here, with a mid-zone dip that is largely corrected by F/4. The edges and corners are so dramatically improved, that by F/2.8 it would be heading towards useable - F/4 is very acceptable.

I'll report tomorrow on how I get on with getting an optometrist to resize the filter to fit in a 49mm mount.

-John



Feb 25, 2017 at 09:07 PM
BastianK
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p.53 #19 · p.53 #19 · Front-End Filter Improves Corner Smearing


Thanks for sharing @HaruhikoT@!

Interestingly the results from your copy are almost indistinguishable from the ones I get.
On my lens lower left looks significantly better than upper right as well.
Makes me frighten how similar it actually looks...
I also assumed a perfectly centered lens may not show the significant mid zone dip,
in case @Fred Miranda@ has a golden copy this would explain why he didn't notice it.

I found this decentering to also be apparent without filter so I send the lens in, but my hopes are not too high,
I am actually already prepared for some nonsense "within tolerances" talk.
Will have to send Zeiss some VM 35mm 1.7 samples in that case I guess...

HaruhikoT wrote:
Hi @BastianK@ and @Phillip Reeve@,

I've just uploaded raw files of ZM35/1.4 + Opto 5m shots at F1.4 & infinity.
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B1BhTESBmBxoVXVNS3lGNWNuRW8

Your mentioned "midzone dip" also appears in my copy.
Compared to the center, sharpness goes lower in the area 50-80% off center, then around 90% off center, it goes higher again.
And I also see upper-right midzone is slightly worse than lower-left midzone.
I'd carefully checked my filter centering using @scrappydog@'s method, so perhaps my ZM35 is not a best copy...

But I have to say, even in the midzone, sharpness seems to be not worse than without PCX.
And as Guy mentioned, I also see
...Show more




Feb 25, 2017 at 09:11 PM
Fred Miranda
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p.53 #20 · p.53 #20 · Front-End Filter Improves Corner Smearing


BastianK wrote:
Thanks for sharing @HaruhikoT@@!

Interestingly the results from your copy are almost indistinguishable from the ones I get.
On my lens lower left looks significantly better than upper right as well.
Makes me frighten how similar it actually looks...
I also assumed a perfectly centered lens may not show the significant mid zone dip,
in case @Fred Miranda@@ has a golden copy this would explain why he didn't notice it.

I found this decentering to also be apparent without filter so I send the lens in, but my hopes are not too high,
I am actually already prepared for some nonsense "within tolerances" talk.
Will have to send
...Show more

Sorry about the delay. I had some time today to retest this. (My previous tests were deleted)

When comparing images at infinity, (with and without the front-lens) I can confirm that the images with the front-lens look better throughout the entire image field (center, mid and edges). There is very slight contrast loss in the center of the image when using the front-lens.
The mid-field resolution drop happens with and without the front-lens and therefore it's probably a characteristic of the lens at wider apertures (f/1.4 until f/2.8)

Here are some side by side. With and without the filter. As you can see the images with the front-lens are always better even in the mid-field. Granted, that center and edges can look better in comparison to the mid-field at wide apertures.
Same sharpening applied using my default LR settings.

Front lens (LEFT)
Bare lens (RIGHT)






f/2.8 (center)







f/2.8 (mid-field)







f/2.8 (extreme-edge)







f/4 (center)







f/4 (mid-field) PS: The image without the front-lens looks good here since it was focused on this area. Extreme edges on the next page...




Feb 25, 2017 at 10:03 PM
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