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Archive 2016 · The Sony/Zeiss Partnership as explained by Zeiss

  
 
freaklikeme
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · The Sony/Zeiss Partnership as explained by Zeiss


Well, Zeiss marketing, anyway. I stumbled across this when I was looking at MTFs of the old CY lenses. I couldn't remember it being posted here before and when I did search of the forum, I didn't find a reference. So, if it's old news, I apologize, but I did try.

http://lenspire.zeiss.com/en/sony-and-zeiss-what-photographers-should-know-about-the-partnership/



Oct 01, 2016 at 01:52 AM
mcbroomf
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · The Sony/Zeiss Partnership as explained by Zeiss


Thanks, I hadn't seen it ...


Oct 01, 2016 at 04:14 AM
MJKoski
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · The Sony/Zeiss Partnership as explained by Zeiss


That tells quite a lot. Just see the pictures...

1) Craftsman inspecting DSLR Zeiss lens (in japan)
vs.
2) Running some futile test sequence with Zony lens stuffed in some test platform (in some unnamed factory)



Oct 01, 2016 at 06:20 AM
MAubrey
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · The Sony/Zeiss Partnership as explained by Zeiss


If even some lenses are being tested with a K8, I'd really like to see what Zeiss' results are...


Oct 01, 2016 at 09:34 AM
freaklikeme
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · The Sony/Zeiss Partnership as explained by Zeiss


MJKoski wrote:
That tells quite a lot. Just see the pictures...

1) Craftsman inspecting DSLR Zeiss lens (in japan)
vs.
2) Running some futile test sequence with Zony lens stuffed in some test platform (in some unnamed factory)


Hmm. I think you might be seeing what you want to see. The Sony tech is testing the lens on the Zeiss K8. Cosina uses the same testing at their facility (where your craftsman is doing his final visual inspection). In the next set of photos down, the Sony tech is doing the same final visual inspection on a Zony lens.



Oct 01, 2016 at 01:22 PM
MJKoski
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · The Sony/Zeiss Partnership as explained by Zeiss


Which worker was successful? That mighty K8 slipped thru quite a few duds during the past few years.


Oct 01, 2016 at 01:25 PM
freaklikeme
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · The Sony/Zeiss Partnership as explained by Zeiss


It's impossible to say which worker was successful. Cosina doesn't have any better track record than Sony.


Oct 01, 2016 at 01:36 PM
edwardkaraa
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · The Sony/Zeiss Partnership as explained by Zeiss


I think it's already clear that the Quality control people will do whatever they're told to do. Each model from Zeiss or Sony has specific tolerances depending on price and product positioning. I suspect that Sony Zeiss lenses have looser tolerances than Zeiss, which may explain the frequent decentering. Surely highest standards are used for cine and otus lenses.


Oct 01, 2016 at 01:43 PM
Phillip Reeve
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · The Sony/Zeiss Partnership as explained by Zeiss




edwardkaraa wrote:
I think it's already clear that the Quality control people will do whatever they're told to do. Each model from Zeiss or Sony has specific tolerances depending on price and product positioning. I suspect that Sony Zeiss lenses have looser tolerances than Zeiss, which may explain the frequent decentering. Surely highest standards are used for cine and otus lenses.

At least the 55 Otus didn't fare that well in Roger's evaluation.



Oct 01, 2016 at 04:22 PM
freaklikeme
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · The Sony/Zeiss Partnership as explained by Zeiss


I don't think that's necessarily true regarding the Zeiss lenses that aren't made in Germany, Edward. I think it has more to do with the differences in complexity between MF lenses and AF lenses. The Touits and Batis lenses have had their share of disgruntled users. Volume of manufacturing likely plays a role, as does packaging. Compared to Zeiss' little cardboard lens coffins, the Sony packaging is very bare-minimum by way of isolation and buffering.


Oct 01, 2016 at 04:36 PM
Robert E
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · The Sony/Zeiss Partnership as explained by Zeiss


So, then, after reading this article, has anyone figured out why so many expensive Sony lenses have the "decentering" problem so often mentioned on this board?


Oct 01, 2016 at 05:15 PM
philip_pj
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · The Sony/Zeiss Partnership as explained by Zeiss


Mostly written in Marketese (close relation to equally disreputable language of Journalese) because both firms benefit greatly. Key sentence:

'ZEISS 'supports' Sony throughout the optical design and development process and then tests and approves the prototypes. Finally, ZEISS determines the test specifications for serial production.'

So the weasel word support = 'gives assistance', still very vague, right? Which is what both sides want. Without solid detail and exposure of process, it comes down to little more than virtue signalling.

The other input is QA / tolerance 'advice'.

Take home message is the same as it ever was: If it is sold as a Zeiss lens, that is what it is, 100% responsibility taken by them. If it is sold by Sony it won't matter how many mid blue stickers the lens, hood and box bears - it's genetically a Sony lens, deep down to its core DNA.

Maybe some 'journalist' can write and ask why they don't publish K8 MTF from an actual lens sample. Their present performance graphs look like they were drawn by a kid with a crayon. Or maybe they figure that is the level of people they are selling to. Caveat emptor.



Oct 01, 2016 at 05:24 PM
freaklikeme
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · The Sony/Zeiss Partnership as explained by Zeiss


It wouldn't surprise me if the support in the design phase were limited to document sharing about optical design and different glass types available. Why would Sony need optical engineers otherwise? Given the IQ of the lenses we've seen recently (which appear to have taken an uptick in QA as well over the lenses introduced previously), and their history together on the A mount, I'd say they're Zeiss-worthy engineers. So saying the lenses are Sony-DNA at their core isn't really an insult, is it?

But even if you're right, Philip, that just means Zeiss doesn't care about their brand. Slap a blue badge on it and bless it with a splash of the holy T-coating? Until proven otherwise, I'll choose to believe that Zeiss cares more about their brand and the photography community than that implies.



Oct 01, 2016 at 06:16 PM
chez
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · The Sony/Zeiss Partnership as explained by Zeiss


freaklikeme wrote:
It wouldn't surprise me if the support in the design phase were limited to document sharing about optical design and different glass types available. Why would Sony need optical engineers otherwise? Given the IQ of the lenses we've seen recently (which appear to have taken an uptick in QA as well over the lenses introduced previously), and their history together on the A mount, I'd say they're Zeiss-worthy engineers. So saying the lenses are Sony-DNA at their core isn't really an insult, is it?

But even if you're right, Philip, that just means Zeiss doesn't care about their brand. Slap a
...Show more

Totally agree. I don't think Zeiss just slaps their name onto a lens just for the promotion bucks.



Oct 01, 2016 at 06:50 PM
Chris_88
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · The Sony/Zeiss Partnership as explained by Zeiss


I do believe that it makes a lot of sense for both parties: There are probably still plenty of people out there who believe that the blue logo "must" make the lens superior to one without the badge. This helps Sony. Meanwhile, Zeiss probably is paid handsomely in return, besides blue badges on a whole range of Sony cameras (not just lenses, but also smart phones and P&S cameras) increase their visibility quite a bit. I'd think they can live with a few disgruntled purists who rave about Zeiss pop and out right dismiss any Sony Zeiss lens as a bad lens with bad QA.


Oct 01, 2016 at 08:32 PM
edwardkaraa
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · The Sony/Zeiss Partnership as explained by Zeiss


Ok, this is purely anecdotal, but I was told by someone close to Sony at the time that before 2009, the head of the photo department was a big fan of Zeiss, and followed all their recommendations enthusiastically, but this guy was replaced by a chauvinistic Japanese superiority kind of personality who wanted to stop the collaboration with Zeiss and replace the za with g lenses. The relations were so strained at the time that if you recall, Zeiss had to release a couple of statements to assure public that the collaboration was still on. The final outcome was that Zeiss was completely sidelined and their role being giving their blessing and logo to the za but their active involvement in the lens design was ended.


Oct 01, 2016 at 09:20 PM
Chris_88
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · The Sony/Zeiss Partnership as explained by Zeiss


In a recent interview with a Japanese photographer/journalist concerning the development of the FE 50 1.4, the topic of the cooperation with Zeiss was raised and Sony was not very forthcoming concerning details. Below is what I posted in the FE 50 1.4 thread. Again, this is just me translating parts of that pretty long interview, so don't shoot the messenger.


http://dc.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/news/interview/1022665.html

I found this interview quite interesting: Here are just a few points. If you want to dismiss them as stupid marketing talk feel free to do so, but some may find those comments interesting:

The interviewer asked the same question that has been asked by many here, namely why isn't the FE 50 1.4 a GM lens? The vague answer was that the GM lenses were all about "ultimate resolution and ultimate bokeh". The 50 1.4 was the result of a "fusion of Sony's technology and the traditional CZ lens design philosophy". In addition, they said Zeiss' rigorous production standards applied
...Show more



Oct 03, 2016 at 07:34 AM





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