Home · Register · Join Upload & Sell

Moderated by: Fred Miranda
Username  

  New fredmiranda.com Mobile Site
  New Feature: SMS Notification alert
  New Feature: Buy & Sell Watchlist
  

FM Forums | People Photography | Join Upload & Sell

  

Archive 2016 · Completely different captures from the same event

  
 
nolaguy
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Completely different captures from the same event


I recently concluded a project near and dear to my heart. Army vet, wheelchair bound due to an accident unrelated to his service. Amazing, terrific guy with an even more charming wife. As if that isn’t enough… so many devoted, really cool friends… it was literally one double-take after another as I grew to know these people through the lens.

His wife organized a 50th birthday celebration/roast for him in the French Quarter. The evening was both hilarious and a tearjerker. I may share more photos from the occasion but the fuller set isn’t the point of this post.


What I am pretty fascinated by is that two of my all time favorite images resulted from the effort and they are radically different. We speak a lot about consistency across a wedding or event – and honestly I’ve never fully agreed with that. There will be naysayers that dress me down over this – that’s fine and I’m all ears. Certainly I may be missing something.


Anyway, I was very intrigued by how two of my most rewarding shots emerged with such opposite characteristics and I'm truly not sure I would have liked the second one better if it had been more technically correct.

This sort of shop talk amongst FMer’s is always enlightening so I thought I’d put them up and invite the conversation. I’m of course open to any critique of the images but the real suggestion for the topic is reconciling such different captures from the same event – should we even care about that and if so, why?

Is matchy matchy that important or can we tell different parts of the story different ways?


Personally, I don’t currently see any conflict. I like the different moods and to feel a change of pace or flavor from one scene to the next… but again, I could be missing something.


The more pristine shot was using a D810 with either 24-70 or 70-200 with lots of strobe lighting. It was one of the more touching glimpses of the evening and she was visibly contemplating the sweetness and emotion of the moment taking place on stage.

The all-over-the-place shot was a D700, 35mm Art with very random ambient light (I didn’t find out till last second where they had actually placed the step and repeat background) and the profoundly devoted wife was tending to things. As I caught her she was glancing back, as she almost always does when taking care of her husband. I love that about her which no doubt drives a lot of my pleasure in the capture. Obviously the focal point was a foot past her, but strangely, that's part of what I like about it.


Cross posting to the Wedding board as this sort of event photography is so similar to weddings.

Thanks in advance for your thoughts.

C













Oct 01, 2016 at 12:32 AM
dhp_sf
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Completely different captures from the same event


I think your personal & emotional attachment around the photographs allow you to overlook the incongruous style. This is the same, I think, when clients see photographs from their guests with an iphone/ipad, or from an overzealous uncle with expensive gear and little skill, or from the paid & seasoned photographer. To them, the images are all of their own wedding/event of their friends and family, so they see it as a set of images. Would they want to throw an iphone photo into a photo album alongside the professional's images? Probably not. But maybe some people would (different strokes and all that).

To your root question: "Can we tell different parts of the story different ways?"

Well, simply, yes we can. But should we? It depends on the intent. Do we want to smoothly transition from one scene to the next? Or are we trying to make an impact by creating a jarring effect of visual dissonance? If we're thinking of an event as one overall story-arc with sub-stories within it, I think it does make sense to keep things generally consistent. Different scenes will be marked by different environments, different players, different lighting, and different emotions. To add to that a different visual style, I think is to add confusion. But again, this ultimately comes down to your intent and how you want to communicate your vision. Tarantino does this in Kill Bill, when he's telling the origin story of one of the characters, it goes into an anime style comic. Other films also change affects and styles of the visuals to denote that we're viewing something that happened in the past, or in a dream, or something else. But they all have a purpose to their visual discontinuity from the rest of the piece.

From a business/branding perspective, I think it is absolutely critical to have a consistent visual style. Otherwise how are clients to assess what they may get as a product? The resultant images from weddings are (for the majority) considered to be parts of a series. And series are generally best understood through consistent results.



Oct 01, 2016 at 01:08 AM
nolaguy
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Completely different captures from the same event


Thanks very much for taking so much time with this, Duy. I've always enjoyed your work and am certainly listening closely.



Oct 01, 2016 at 01:17 AM
Ian Boys
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Completely different captures from the same event


I think it's a simple as how the shots are presented. If they're going in a book/album/slideshow together then clearly it makes sense to have greater visual continuity. If they are individual prints then it doesn't matter nearly as much.

If they are in a book/album I'd put maybe 8 shots like the 2nd all together so they're seen as a separate chapter.

In one book I put together for myself it was always 1 pic per spread but on one I put 4. It was my best ever work but that visual break has been annoying me ever since.



Oct 01, 2016 at 04:38 AM
Ian Boys
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Completely different captures from the same event


Another way I've handled it in a wedding album where the wedding was b/w was to put all the colour formals in a separate section at the back of the main "story". So they were there but didn't get in the way of the day developing.


Oct 01, 2016 at 04:40 AM
nolaguy
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Completely different captures from the same event


Ian Boys wrote:
In one book I put together for myself it was always 1 pic per spread but on one I put 4. It was my best ever work but that visual break has been annoying me ever since.


Thanks so much for your thoughts, Ian.

Your example makes sense to me, primarily because if out of 30 or 40 spreads (just making those numbers up) only one of them had multiple images... yes, I get the disruption.

If you'd done the same thing every three or four spreads, would you still be troubled by it?

For me, that would have just been a graphic design choice, not necessarily a good or bad thing, just a decision about the visual approach and cadence of the book - but yeah, I wouldn't want a one-off spread so distinct from every other page unless it was a deliberate call out of some sort.




Oct 01, 2016 at 05:59 AM
Ian Boys
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Completely different captures from the same event


I'd probably try to group them into 4 pages like that then back out for several pages etc.

But I still think the neatest answer is to have the book quite uniform then add the different images as separate prints.

"Here's your book but I just loved these shots too even if they don't quite fit so I've taken the liberty of printing them because I like the mood/smiles/whatever".



Oct 01, 2016 at 06:04 AM
glort
Offline
• • • •
[X]
p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Completely different captures from the same event



They are great shots Chuck because they have the important elements, emotion.

To be honest, all this gear talk drives me nuts. I know others do but I couldn't give a Fk about what camera or lens or anything else. The clients care about 1 thing, the end result and they don't give a shit about technicalities as long as the very basics are covered. Even then, lighting and focus that is not" Correct " can add to a pic and make it very powerful anyway. You prove that right here!

The main subject of the 2nd shot isn't even in focus so Wether you shot that with a $2 plastic lens or a Zeiss, it makes no difference to the compelling content of this pic. The style of what sort of pic or wether it " fits" with the others is also irrelevant. It's a great pic that stands on its own significant merit not because of technicalities or the genere in which it was shot but the skill , artistry, talent and rapport for the clients which you invested.

I don't understand why shooters fuss so much over technicals and pay so little attention to the wants and desires of the people paying them. 95% of the technical worries shooters put into equipment will never be recognised by the client nor matters.
Now I'll wait for the " You don't care about giving your clients the best" rubbish retorts.

As for different styles in the same coverage, I think your pics answer that quite well straight off.
I don't believe many clients wonder about a shot being taken with this camera or that lens and I don't think they ever have a thought go through their minds Wether this is a PJ or a formal shot or categorising anything more than they like it or don't.

From the other POV, what do you do? Say that would be a great shot but it's not the same style as the others I do so I'm not going to take it?
Not a lot of sense in that.

I know you don't do a lot of weddings but I have done a couple and some of those have been Asian weddings. The girls can have 4-6 Different dresses and the style of them changes so much you have no choice but to shoot and capture different types of shots because you'd make half the shots look ridiculous if you tried to shoot it all the same. The girls chose different and varying styles of dress to try and get a range of looks so obviously you go with that.

If it works for one, why not the other?
I certainly never worry about what " Style" a shot is. My parameters are much simpler, " Will they like it or not?" If it's a yes, that's all I think about before looking for the next thing to do which is hopefully as different as I can make it.
In the couple of years I have been shooting weddings, NO client ever said to me they wanted to stick to the same thing and weren't interested in getting a variety of styles and looks from their day.

Your pics are beautiful. The clients will love them and look at them for the rest of their lives and never once ponder the camera you shot them with, the lens you used or the style of them.
They will think what great pics they are and what a wonderful job you did of capturing this occasion.

They will be forever pleased with the choice they made in hiring you and treasure the pictures forever.
The end.



Oct 01, 2016 at 06:10 AM
nolaguy
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Completely different captures from the same event


Thanks mate. I have further thoughts on it all but I'll refrain until the thread has run its course and I have the opportunity to ponder more of the helpful input from our brethren.

In the mean time, as always, I appreciate your sense of clarity and how intuitively you cut to the chase and identify the bottom line - at least from one point of view.

That's not at all to dismiss other approaches. Listening to other's perspectives is the whole point of the post.

But, per usual, you're decisive and aggressive. I like that about you.

C



Oct 01, 2016 at 06:46 AM
Mark_L
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Completely different captures from the same event


I think I have sets of odd shots that don’t ‘fit’ in every wedding. I deliver them anyway of course because really clients are way way less hung up on thing fitting a ‘style’ then us (just look couples booking and then seeming to wants something different to what we do!) At that point they just want good pictures from their wedding so who cares. Where it does get a big more tricky is the album, I pre-design to make it cohesive but especially when it comes to receptions and candid cocktail hr social pictures I will make a full spread of looser pictures with no issue but not mix them in.

For a website/portfolio/sample album though they absolutely need to be very strongly consistent to be able to have a strong message to book me for what I do vs someone else. Anything that doesn't fit or contradicts weakens this.

On this particular example though, I’ll be blunt and say with the bottom picture I just don’t get it; it looks like an oddly timed shot that looks weird to me with no meaning or expression. Maybe this is a case of you know what was going on when you shot it so see it differently? Shots like this suffer the same thing as street photography does: one man’s masterpiece is another man’s “did the shutter go off by accident?” I’ve had people look at my street stuff and be like “eh?” and others that think it is amazing. Very polarising.



Oct 02, 2016 at 03:07 PM
nolaguy
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Completely different captures from the same event


Well put, Mark. I appreciate you taking the time and your thoughtful input.

Regards,

Chuck



Oct 02, 2016 at 04:16 PM
gschlact
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Completely different captures from the same event


Some general comments...
...I believe both of these can work individually IF meaningful to the client/subjects.
...the first one can help her reconnect with "that" special moment
...the second once might connect with them in different ways. Was the in focus person talking to them both? Was she and her husband sharing an amusing though, a look or pause of emotional connection? It Might be as meaningful to them as you identify. That would make it a Keeper.
...in a wedding book, my guess is that context might be necessary to help them fit in, multi image layout would be fine. Or, full page of the shot preceding your first one was of the people on the stage she was gazing on. For the second one, I guess probably more context unless person in focus is reason enough for keeping it too. But again, this is related to the wedding album perspective.

Guy



Oct 02, 2016 at 10:44 PM
nolaguy
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Completely different captures from the same event


Thank you, Guy. I very much appreciate your time and detailed thoughts on the matter. More great input to reflect on.



Regards,

Chuck



Oct 02, 2016 at 10:51 PM
friscoron
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Completely different captures from the same event


You're always so generous with your comments, Chuck, so I have to chime in.

I don't really care about equipment or that every shot from a wedding or event is consistent with each other. For example, my main 2nd shooter and backup 2nd shooter are both Canon shooters, and I'm a Nikon guy. Their styles are different from mine, and in my opinion that adds to what we're doing as opposed to creating a conflict in style. It's not radically different, just different.

During the ceremony and reception, we're basically shooting with the same settings so for the most part, our IQ is pretty similar.

So as for your question, I don't think every thing has to be the same. I look at a potential shot at a wedding and ask myself how it should be shot. It's naturally going to be different. Same with your two shots. Totally different, but they both can be quite relevant in telling the story of the day, regardless of how different the lighting may be.

I hope this helps in some small way.



Oct 03, 2016 at 03:13 PM
heikoM
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Completely different captures from the same event


Hi Chuck,

I have not read the other comments, yet, as I want to write none influenced and fresh from my heard.

The first shot is nice, but to me not that interesting. She has a cute look, but I wonder what is she looking at? I miss context, I miss a story here. If one would be mean, he could say, a pretty face, and else?


The second shot. Not easy... I start with what I don´t like that much: the background of course, takes a lot of attention, and her eyes, looks like a half blinker, a split of a second the wrong moment, maybe. BUT, this image has soul, it touches me. The technical imperfections make it work, I guess. It is a glimpse in time, and, it is a bit abstract and that is something I like a lot in images. If it were my image I would burn down the other people and the back half of her to give it more punch, but you are not me. This image is artistic and I love it.


Consistency... ? I also always thought you need to be consistent, but really? The portfolio of Parker J Pfister comes to mind, he is not consistent as a fact (and I adore his work). I feel you cannot be all over the place in one set, but I guess you can have it covered solidly and then have some real artistic shots in between, where it is clear, this is something different.

The problem is when you do so, the other shots take away from the artisticy, so maybe more like this:
Why not have a set, as a set, and a separate folder like selections where you show a few images from the event/wedding where you only show images that are different, emotional and artistic...


Just some random thoughts...

heiko



Oct 03, 2016 at 05:48 PM
nolaguy
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Completely different captures from the same event


friscoron wrote:
I hope this helps in some small way.


Absolutely, Ron. Thank you very much and thanks for your very kind words. I'm anxious to summarize things but as I mentioned, I'm trying to hold off.

I really appreciate your input buddy.

C




Oct 03, 2016 at 08:04 PM
nolaguy
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Completely different captures from the same event


heikoM wrote:
Hi Chuck,

I have not read the other comments, yet, as I want to write none influenced and fresh from my heard.

The first shot is nice, but to me not that interesting. She has a cute look, but I wonder what is she looking at? I miss context, I miss a story here. If one would be mean, he could say, a pretty face, and else?

The second shot. Not easy... I start with what I don´t like that much: the background of course, takes a lot of attention, and her eyes, looks like a half blinker, a split of a second
...Show more


Heiko my friend, you're like a catalyst perpetually in search of other catalysts. I love that about you.

Thanks so much for taking the time. I always enjoy your point of view.

Chuck



Oct 03, 2016 at 08:07 PM
Doug Maclean
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · Completely different captures from the same event


As an outside observer the photos are...Meh.If I know the people and context they could be the best shots in the world.


Oct 27, 2016 at 07:27 PM





FM Forums | People Photography | Join Upload & Sell

    
 

You are not logged in. Login or Register

Username       Or Reset password



This site is protected by reCAPTCHA and the Google Privacy Policy and Terms of Service apply.