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uhoh7
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p.21 #1 · p.21 #1 · Techart PRO FAQ


jankap wrote:
You mean a video? In a still you might see the effect of a decentered lens.

Sure is it solvable with a new design.
Does not have Sony a similar adapter for its SLR line? Also Sigma seems to have such an adapter.
One could compare the stability of the constructions.
What would a Leica construction weight?
Jan


I was thinking a still, Jan. The whole idea is the problem [Wobble] causes decentering. So there should be plenty of de-centered shots no? Just because I can "move" the lens with pressure, does not mean it is not shooting flat. It's only due diligence to check actual results.

As to the other adapters, I'm not sure how many have onboard powered helicoids. The famous sony LAEA adapters do not. The big mechanism in the LAEA4 looks like it, but that has a special mirror used for AF.

It would be so useful if we had a strong version of the TAP. I am trying to imagine how you get more support on the upper side of the carrier. Any links to the TAP internals which show the parts appreciated. A sticky maybe even

I think I saw perhaps even Fred give a careful description, but now I can't find it...I see the top of this thread is very up to date, TY

There is also the loose screw issue. I'm just wondering how many owners are seeing "wobble" as strong as Fred's. A few I'm sure. I found my A7 mount was a bit soft. I fretted but it is shooting centered...I think . The most obvious comparison would be a new TAP vs the TAP in question. "It's top (lens carrier) is not supported" [Fred description]" That's the crux. At first it is supported, then it gets loose. How?

If anybody has a chance to get some shots which show that, would be great and link to front.




Apr 13, 2017 at 06:15 PM
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p.21 #2 · p.21 #2 · Techart PRO FAQ


uhoh7 wrote:
I was thinking a still, Jan. The whole idea is the problem [Wobble] causes decentering. So there should be plenty of de-centered shots no? Just because I can "move" the lens with pressure, does not mean it is not shooting flat. It's only due diligence to check actual results.

As to the other adapters, I'm not sure how many have onboard powered helicoids. The famous sony LAEA adapters do not. The big mechanism in the LAEA4 looks like it, but that has a special mirror used for AF.

It would be so useful if we had a strong version of the
...Show more

The wobble is very minimal at first but after a while, it gets more play. On that video I posted, it looks extreme but a few months before that there was almost no tilt. I guess, once it starts, even if so slightly, it quickly progresses. The same happened to my replacement and I never used heavy lenses on them. That adapter 'lens carrier' should have perfect parallelism in extended or contracted mode and be rock-solid.
The issue here is that there is nothing holding the upper area (imo, a design flaw) so eventually it will undoubtedly show its weakness.



Apr 13, 2017 at 07:58 PM
jankap
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p.21 #3 · p.21 #3 · Techart PRO FAQ


uhoh7 wrote:
What I am still a bit unclear about: at first no wobble, then it develops. So some part must be wearing. Which is part exactly?


That is the question. Can it be wear in such a short time?
Or is it grease, that at first perhaps hides loose tolerances and changes its viscosity in use?
There is not much room for the bearing, one bearing.
Jan



Apr 14, 2017 at 07:47 AM
ratherfish
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p.21 #4 · p.21 #4 · Techart PRO FAQ




JimBuchanan wrote:
If any of you were wondering why the weight limit on the TAP, maybe this will explain it.

I was impressed that the black front cover was made of aluminum. If you consider all the small gears as the center of a clock, then the motor is to the right at 3 o'clock and at 9 o'clock and before 3 o'clock are a larger axle and a smaller axle. These two axles have a bearing in the front cover that holds the axle shafts. Unlike a macro Leica M to Sony E adapter that has a helical, the TAP "moves" along
...Show more

JimBuchanan's post with the photo back on page 12 may be helpful in the discussion about the wobble phenomenon.



Apr 14, 2017 at 08:39 AM
genji
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p.21 #5 · p.21 #5 · Techart PRO FAQ


ratherfish wrote:
JimBuchanan's post with the photo back on page 12 may be helpful in the discussion about the wobble phenomenon.


Thanks for recalling Jim's post and referencing it. His photo and explanation definitely clarify how the mechanism's design could make it susceptible to "drooping" and thence to the wobble.



Apr 14, 2017 at 10:29 AM
DavidBM
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p.21 #6 · p.21 #6 · Techart PRO FAQ


genji wrote:
Thanks for recalling Jim's post and referencing it. His photo and explanation definitely clarify how the mechanism's design could make it susceptible to "drooping" and thence to the wobble.


Yep. I think I'll stop using the TAP to move the camera with large lenses, or to move the lens with medium lenses, and use it as a dedicated adapter for the C-Sonnar, which I keep glued to f 1.7 where AF really helps. There's no need with wides or landscape lenses anyway.



Apr 14, 2017 at 11:05 AM
rji2goleez
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p.21 #7 · p.21 #7 · Techart PRO FAQ


Does everyone's Techart with wobble, wobble all the time? I have to do more testing but it seems like mine wobbles only sometimes and my observation is taken when the adapter is extended.


Apr 14, 2017 at 11:52 AM
genji
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p.21 #8 · p.21 #8 · Techart PRO FAQ


DavidBM wrote:
Yep. I think I'll stop using the TAP to move the camera with large lenses, or to move the lens with medium lenses, and use it as a dedicated adapter for the C-Sonnar, which I keep glued to f 1.7 where AF really helps. There's no need with wides or landscape lenses anyway.


Wise plan. As much as I like the combo, I think I might forgo using the TAP with the 390g M-Hexanon 50/1.2. I'll stick with the much lighter M-Hexanon 50/2, Planar 50/2 ZM, or Nikkor-H.C 50/2 LTM on TAPa and the C-Sonnar 50/1.5 ZM or Nikkor-S.C 50/1.4 LTM on TAPb. (Although Fred doesn't believe that the weight of the lens is a factor in the TAP's developing the wobble.)



Apr 14, 2017 at 11:58 AM
DavidBM
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p.21 #9 · p.21 #9 · Techart PRO FAQ


genji wrote:
Wise plan. As much as I like the combo, I think I might forgo using the TAP with the 390g M-Hexanon 50/1.2. I'll stick with the much lighter M-Hexanon 50/2, Planar 50/2 ZM, or Nikkor-H.C 50/2 LTM on TAPa and the C-Sonnar 50/1.5 ZM or Nikkor-S.C 50/1.4 LTM on TAPb. (Although Fred doesn't believe that the weight of the lens is a factor in the TAP's developing the wobble.)


Interesting. I wonder why?
In any case, I guess unless the wobble gets super bad with these normal lenses at wide apertures the slight tilt is unlikely to be visible....



Apr 14, 2017 at 12:58 PM
jankap
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p.21 #10 · p.21 #10 · Techart PRO FAQ


ratherfish wrote:
JimBuchanan's post with the photo back on page 12 may be helpful in the discussion about the wobble phenomenon.


Two axles on the bottom. OK
A helical would have been a better start construction.
Jan



Apr 14, 2017 at 01:29 PM
 

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ratherfish
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p.21 #11 · p.21 #11 · Techart PRO FAQ


rji2goleez wrote:
Does everyone's Techart with wobble, wobble all the time? I have to do more testing but it seems like mine wobbles only sometimes and my observation is taken when the adapter is extended.


I checked my TAP as Fred suggested and mine doesn't have the wobble yet, even when extended. I haven't used mine as much as some here have so perhaps the wobble just has not developed yet on my copy. Given Jim's assessment of its design and his photograph of the mechanism, I've been thinking about which part of the TAP would be most likely to weaken with use over time, even with lighter weight lenses. Axles? Bearings? Any speculation from you engineering types?



Apr 14, 2017 at 02:27 PM
brick33308
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p.21 #12 · p.21 #12 · Techart PRO FAQ


Jack Thompson wrote:
I sometimes wonder if my A7RII should really be my landscape camera, and my walk around/travel/street camera should be an XT-2. I'd feel differently if I had a reasonably compact Zeiss Batis 35 F2 and 50 F2 but I get the sense that this may never happen. Sadly, I just didn't really bond with the rendering of FE 35 2.8 and 55 1.8. I catch myself looking at my ZM 35 1.4, and leica 50/90 and watching them morph into an XT-2, and while that is hard, it may be less hard when my current TAP begins to
...Show more

I had your feelings. My preferred genre is street work and I too wasn't enthralled with the 35/2.8, and the 55/1.8 while a great lens isn't suitable for my street work. I also don't care for the 28/2. I tried the ZM 35 which is a superb lens with the TAP, but I sent the TAP back for a full refund long before the wobble issue began appearing because it would only engage auto focus about 30% of the time, and I'm just not into manual focus for street work. By the way I'm not selling the ZM 35 because I have an itch which may get scratched in the future to mess around with a Leica rangefinder, and that lens pairs beautifully with it

So I went a completely different route for my street work and picked up a lightly used, mint condition Leica Q from the FM buy/sell board. Very simply it has become my absolute favorite camera for so many reasons, while my A7Rii sits on the shelf waiting for a landscape or portrait assignment for which it excels. FYI, I also bought a used RX1Rii at the same time I bought the Q to test them both, and the Q handily won out. Here's my post describing my thoughts on that contest.

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/4124108



Apr 14, 2017 at 03:03 PM
genji
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p.21 #13 · p.21 #13 · Techart PRO FAQ


brick33308 wrote:
I had your feelings. My preferred genre is street work and I too wasn't enthralled with the 35/2.8, and the 55/1.8 while a great lens isn't suitable for my street work. I also don't care for the 28/2. I tried the ZM 35 which is a superb lens with the TAP, but I sent the TAP back for a full refund long before the wobble issue began appearing because it would only engage auto focus about 30% of the time, and I'm just not into manual focus for street work. By the way I'm not selling the ZM 35 because
...Show more

Honest evaluation of the pluses and minuses in your DPReview post and particularly impressive that you bought both cameras in order to compare them. Although I like the 28mm focal length, the lack of a tilt LCD screen (which you miss on the Q) automatically made it a non-starter for me. I use the RX1R II mainly in 1:1 aspect ratio. This gives me a field of view equivalent to an 80mm lens on a Rolleiflex TLR or a Hasselblad 500/CM and the tilt screen allows me to emulate the shooting experience of those cameras. To each his (or her) own.



Apr 15, 2017 at 12:46 AM
thompsonkirk
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p.21 #14 · p.21 #14 · Techart PRO FAQ


I have no wobble yet, but this thread has convinced me to use a regular adapter and manual focus most of the time, and the TAP only when I really need AF. That way I can get my money's worth of use out of it and put off the arrival of wobble.

As above, I too found the 35 2.8 and 55 FE to be rather unpleasant lenses. All they can do well is resolve detail. Last week I tested a number of 50mm lenses to see which would be best in the corners for stitching, and the 55 FE wasn't even the sharpest, and seemed too contrasty. It didn't really block up the highlights, it just didn't seem to offer as much differentiation of highlight tones.

The outcome of testing was that with the Kolari mod, I can use Leica lenses at middle apertures for stitching without any noticeable difficulty in the corners. So I'll be using MATE and WATE for landscapes, and other Leica lenses in TAP when I need AF.

Besides Leica, a C/Y Planar f1.4 and a C/Y f3.4 35-70 also gave more pleasing results than the FE 55, from the standpoint of being sharp enough and also rendering nice tonal gradations.

I rather liked the 28 f2 for street shooting, but sold it when I got TAP. 28 Summicron doesn't play well with Sony, but 28 Hexanon-M is good with TAP. Because 35mm is better for me, I use 35 Cron v4 in TAP, plus RX1rII, not Q. When I use RX with a Metro grip and Thumbs Up and a wrist strap, it feels like an autofocus M4.

Kirk



Apr 15, 2017 at 05:23 AM
genji
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p.21 #15 · p.21 #15 · Techart PRO FAQ


You're using a Kolari-modified A7R II, right? That's why the M-Hexanon 28/2.8 performs well. I got my hopes up for a moment because I mistakenly assumed that you were talking about a stock A7R II. The M-Hexanon 28/2.8 and 35/2 performed so poorly on the A7R that I've never bothered to try them on an A7R II. Neither the Kolari nor the front-end filter modifications are practical for me so occasionally I think (gasp!) about a used M Monochrom. Then I reconnect with reality.

thompsonkirk wrote:
I have no wobble yet, but this thread has convinced me to use a regular adapter and manual focus most of the time, and the TAP only when I really need AF. That way I can get my money's worth of use out of it and put off the arrival of wobble.

As above, I too found the 35 2.8 and 55 FE to be rather unpleasant lenses. All they can do well is resolve detail. Last week I tested a number of 50mm lenses to see which would be best in the corners for stitching, and the 55 FE wasn't
...Show more



Apr 15, 2017 at 06:54 AM
Vcize
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p.21 #16 · p.21 #16 · Techart PRO FAQ


I'm looking to pick up a voigtlander 12mm in M mount to use with this on an A7r2.

I see there are two versions.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=&sku=676636&gclid=Cj0KEQjwicfHBRCh6KaMp4-asKgBEiQA8GH2x_h0KSY68foDYToOpTikjJQuxIiaW2JjOnym9fU7CnwaAuGd8P8HAQ&is=REG&ap=y&m=Y&c3api=1876%2C%7Bcreative%7D%2C%7Bkeyword%7D&Q=&A=details

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1292735-REG/voigtlander_ba335a_ultra_wide_heliar_12mm_f_5_6.html

Will both of these work and is one better than the other?



Apr 15, 2017 at 08:17 PM
thompsonkirk
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p.21 #17 · p.21 #17 · Techart PRO FAQ


Some lenses like the 35 Cron v2 and 4 that have bad reps on Sony are OK when stopped down to f8. The Kolari mod just gives you 1 or 2 wider apertures. And because WATE and MATE are retrofocus lenses, Kolari mod helps them only a tiny bit. They work just fine without it.

And Just Say No to Monochrom fantasies? I found that the original A7R and the MM didn't differ noticeably in image quality when printing up to 17x22. So I'm assuming the A7RII and newer Monochrom are also about the same except with Sony you can use the LR/PS sliders to change the underlying tones in BW files, which is IMO a substantial advantage. For this reason I've never considered going back to Monochrom.

But we're wandering away from the TAP, except to say there are lots of options with it.

Kirk

genji wrote:
You're using a Kolari-modified A7R II, right? That's why the M-Hexanon 28/2.8 performs well. I got my hopes up for a moment because I mistakenly assumed that you were talking about a stock A7R II. The M-Hexanon 28/2.8 and 35/2 performed so poorly on the A7R that I've never bothered to try them on an A7R II. Neither the Kolari nor the front-end filter modifications are practical for me so occasionally I think (gasp!) about a used M Monochrom. Then I reconnect with reality.





Edited on Apr 16, 2017 at 02:38 AM · View previous versions



Apr 16, 2017 at 02:17 AM
genji
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p.21 #18 · p.21 #18 · Techart PRO FAQ


thompsonkirk wrote:
Some lenses like the 35 Cron v2 and 4 that have bad reps on Sony are OK if you stop them down to mid apertures. The Kolari mod just gives you 1 or 2 wider apertures that you can use. And because WATE and MATE are retrofocus lenses, Kolari mod makes only a small difference that you can see at 100%. They work perfectly well without it.

Re: Monochrom fantasies: I also found that the original A7R and the original Monochrom didn't differ noticeably in image quality when printing up to 17x22. So I'm assuming the A7RII and newer Monochrom
...Show more

All good points, particularly the ability to use the sliders to change the B&W tonality. Thanks.



Apr 16, 2017 at 02:33 AM
uhoh7
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p.21 #19 · p.21 #19 · Techart PRO FAQ


I hope Jim will forgive me borrowing his image:



and I did a crop:


TAP close by unoh7, on Flickr

When I look at the big pic, I see two "pins" which appear to guide the carrier, a large one, lower left, and the smaller one I cropped on the right side. Its seems as if possibly adding another guide like this on the upper side might help.

No biggie really if we can get their attention.



Apr 16, 2017 at 04:14 AM
genji
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p.21 #20 · p.21 #20 · Techart PRO FAQ


uhoh7 wrote:

I hope Jim will forgive me borrowing his image:

http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/ufiles/97/1392297.jpg


and I did a crop:

https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2949/34022754296_e959c6f473.jpg
TAP close by unoh7, on Flickr

When I look at the big pic, I see two "pins" which appear to guide the carrier, a large one, lower left, and the smaller one I cropped on the right side. Its seems as if possibly adding another guide like this on the upper side might help.

No biggie really if we can get their attention.


This occurred to me when I saw Jim's photo but I dismissed the idea, incorrectly assuming that the additional guide would be geared, necessitating a large bump to enclose it. But, since it would simply function as an additional "support rail", it could be accommodated with a small bump at perhaps the 1:30 position, using the whole bayonet mount as our clock. This would certainly mar the smooth lines of the TAP but, if it addresses the wobble issue, that's a small price to pay. The first step, thought, is to get Techart to admit there's a problem, which they seem reluctant to do.



Apr 16, 2017 at 10:03 AM
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