Home · Register · Join Upload & Sell

Moderated by: Fred Miranda
Username  

FM Forum Rules
Wedding Resource List
  

FM Forums | Wedding Photographer | Join Upload & Sell

  

Archive 2016 · To Respond or not to respond?

  
 
bipock
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · To Respond or not to respond?


I received an email from the bride from one of my last weddings this weekend. She left me a pretty good rated review on WW with a funny word verbal and then followed up with an email to me.

The email started with a thanks for the hard work and the images look great and then had a couple criticisms. The first was the lack of formal pictures of both her and the groom as well as them with every guest that attended their wedding (that's not a joke). She was very detailed in her thoughts, some are right, some are wrong, but she was pretty disappointed that I didn't follow them around the entire night taking pictures of them speaking to every guest.

The second criticism was that I was overly communicative with her before and during the wedding day and that I was a stressor to her over the some issues at the church. The first issue was no flash (she told me, not an issue). The second issue was that I was not allowed past the last guest seated when the ceremony started. My communication with her was so that she would understand that there would be certain shots that could absolutely not be taken - her coming down the aisle, the groom's reaction to seeing her, ring exchange - typical shots that are normally done closely. She understood.

Just for clarity, I don't disagree that they didn't get a huge group of formals, either couple or family. I also don't disagree that I had a lot of communication with her, though I thought it was more for managing expectations rather than being a stressor. I do disagree with her on her reasons.

Would you respond or would you let it go? Images delivered, paid in full. She'd be a good reference, but not huge one for me.



Sep 25, 2016 at 08:36 PM
BSPhotog
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · To Respond or not to respond?


Yeah respond. Be warm, appreciative, and probably somewhat brief. Explain that you work the way you do in the interest of delivering the best for your clients. Tell her that you've taken her comments to heart and that it will influence how you structure your pre-wedding meetings...blah blah blah something in that direction. I'd avoid claiming fault of anything per say, but empathize and let her know you care. A phone call might be better than an e-mail (or even address it in person if you have any additional contact schedule (album or print meeting, etc).




Sep 25, 2016 at 08:48 PM
rw11
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · To Respond or not to respond?


Thank her, add her issues as options to your contract, and offer her a formal shoot (just one).


Sep 25, 2016 at 09:35 PM
glort
Offline
• • • •
[X]
p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · To Respond or not to respond?



I tend to imagine the complaint relayed to someone else.

Shes sitting there telling her friend that you didn't follow her around the reception all night taking pics with every Guest. What's the friend going to think?
On this, my guess would be it would be something along the lines of " Well they didn't do that at Mary, Janes or Bob's wedding either. The other reaction in my mind might be " Why the Fk would you want them to and be taking pics of you all damn night?

The other one, Being overly communicative would be " Well I rather than not talk to me". There are no doubt negative positions they might adopt, I just can't think of any but to me the complaints seem stupid in the first place.

This is the classic Situation where my butt covering policy comes in:
" If there is ANYTHING you want or see on the day you would like a picture of, it's YOUR job to tell me. Come back and say We wanted a picture of this but you didn't get it, then it's YOUR fault for not telling me"

I drum this into them and this is exactly the reason why. They complain I didn't get pics of everyone, well why didn't you ask me on the night?
End of discussion.

Clearly you didn't over communicate or you would have known she wanted you to follow them round like a dog all night. The fact she didn't tell you that on the night is HER fault not yours. I suspect that is really something a parent or someone has said AFTER the fact and now she thinks she has to relay it to cover her own backside with them. I'll also bet there were 10K pics taken on phones that more than cover this and it's exactly why they didn't ask you.

I myself would address the issues because then you have a chance of your response being relayed in the Gossip. " He didn't follow me around taking pics of the guests all night and when I mentioned it to him he said That he isn't ware of anyone doing that and to him it would seem like something that could spoil our enjoyment of the night and socilaising with people. He said had he known that's what we wanted, he could have made a time for all the guest to come up and have pictures taken"
Umm, yeah, I wouldn't want the photographer following me around all night either.

I think the thing you really have to realise is you CANNOT prevent this from happening. Ever. People are effing fruitloops and you can never please everyone.
And I mean that literally. Do not let it upset you or get you down that they aren't singing your praises and having statues made to put in the town centre.
It on't happen every time and the wedding you do that you are proud of punch of and think it is your finest work they will almost undoubtedly be pretty half hearted about as well. That's the game we are in, get used to it.

Some girls, and geez I have had too many, just look for an excuse to whinge and complain. I believe it is the being centre of attention Syndrome as a Phsyc friend explained to me many years ago.
For a year or 2, they have been the centre of attention and topic of conversation with their up coming wedding. At work, with friends, with family, they are the special one. It's like Young female Nirvarna and something they all like to hear about.... Till their friend NEVER shuts up about it but they go along with it anyway because she is their friend. Or they don't want to be impolite.

After the day it's all over and while they are on their honeymoon it's all forgotten and the conversation changes to something other than that girls wedding. Maybe somone else they know is now getting hitched and they have become the centre of the universe.
No, shes not the centre of attention any more and she is not happy about that. Some girls whom are popular at work and with friends don't loose their " position" but others who are just the hangers on in the social group and don't normally get much attention resent falling back into obscurity and then try to stay in the spotlight as long and anyway they can.

Bringing up a complaint about something puts her back in the spotlight and gives her some " Poor Victim" factor sympathy as well.
Unfortunately we as shooters are one of the few, if not only people she gets to deal with after the event so guess who is going to be the prime candidate in the firing line?
US!

Now it may not be to that degree with this girl, but I give you a gilt edged promise, you stay in this game not all that long and you WILL get them. No doubt. I have had Husbands and Mothers sit there with the complaining bride telling her she is imagining things and there is nothing wrong with the pictures and they will still work themselves into a crying hissy fit over the most ridiculous shit. I have had them complain about one picture and there is another the same taken 2 sec later of the exact same thing and they are crying because I took the picture when she blinked in that one or she doesn't look good. Looking good being an indefinable thing she still can't articulate other than I should have known and made the picture better and she's not happy with it even though the next one is apparently OK.

I just sit there and think " WTF has this poor guy got himself into?" and I have seen the same thought going through more than one guys head in the way he looked back at me.

I would respond, gently addressing the complaints, reiterating that you did the best you could for her and did your best to try and please her, hence asking questions.
Given she has recommended you this could be confusion OR things other people have said rather than a position of any commitment she has herself.

Set her straight gently you were only doing your best ( and no one has the shooter follow them round all night which is why you didn't and wouldn't ever do that and leave it at that.

If you get 3 complaints, look at what you are doing but if the last 3 couples were all happy, Then don't try and make the rules for the exceptions.




Sep 25, 2016 at 10:10 PM
LeeSimms
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · To Respond or not to respond?


> The first was the lack of formal pictures of both her and the groom

Was there a variable that got in the way of bride+groom shots ?



Sep 25, 2016 at 11:19 PM
nolaguy
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · To Respond or not to respond?


glort wrote:
That's the game we are in, get used to it.


So true.

In life there are things we can influence, and those we can't.

I think Stephen Covey (the 7 Habits guy) describes it this way - we have a large circle of concern and we have an inner circle of influence. Anything outside the latter is generally not worth attempting to remedy. It is what it is and no matter how concerned we are, we have little to no influence over the outcome.

Put another way, our resources are always finite. Be it money, energy, attention span, or heart, resources are are always limited. Don't waste them. Spend your resources on matters that you can influence.


glort wrote:
Some girls whom are popular at work and with friends don't loose their " position" but others who are just the hangers on in the social group and don't normally get much attention resent falling back into obscurity and then try to stay in the spotlight as long and anyway they can.

Bringing up a complaint about something puts her back in the spotlight and gives her some " Poor Victim" factor sympathy as well.



Ladies, don't flame me or misunderstand my meaning, I'm on your side...

Guys, Glort's talking about the stuff we're often oblivious to.

We are wired so differently, men and women... it's almost never intuitive for men to understand how women think, feel, behave - and vice versa. Understanding these things is a matter of education, considerable reflection and experience, not instinct.

Any male who shoots weddings would do well to make learning women a top priority... cuz brothers, what we're thinking ain't what they're thinking.




Sep 26, 2016 at 12:14 AM
bipock
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · To Respond or not to respond?


LeeSimms wrote:
> The first was the lack of formal pictures of both her and the groom

Was there a variable that got in the way of bride+groom shots ?


Lee,

There were a couple things that got in the way. My typical wedding flow is ceremony, group formals then B&G. After the ceremony, the wedding party was supposed to get in the limo and head straight to the hotel. This is one of the items that the bride and I discussed prior to the wedding day, the day of and confirmed immediately after the ceremony. About 2 minutes after the last conversation, her sister came in and said they were doing the formals at the church instead. When I said they were at the hotel in a nicer setting, the sister said we were doing them now, so I did the best I could with the family formals. We finished those and finally headed back to the hotel (20 minute drive), gathered everyone and finished the bridal party at the hotel. During this process, it was very obvious the bride was done with pictures as she began complaining about wanting to go to her cocktail hour. I wrapped up, pulled the B&G aside and asked politely if they wanted a break or if they wanted to do their B&G portraits. Groom didn't care, bride said she was done. Off to the reception.

They did their dances and then dinner. After they had sat down, I walked up and reminded them that I was going to eat and then we could finish up the B&G images. Both were OK with that. I ate, went back in and the toasts began. When the toasts were finished, I walked over to the couple and said we needed to do them. Both said they wanted some time with their guests and that we could do them a little later. I got some shots of them mingling, some dance shots, cake shots and went to find them. I went back to them and they asked for a few more minutes, so back to the dance floor. I went, for the third time, to find them and they said we'll come get you - they never did.

I tried one last time about 1 hour before the reception ended but the bride was too drunk at that point.

I take some blame for not being more assertive in getting them done. However, I feel like I put forth quite a bit of effort to ensure that they got done and was turned away each time. If there's something more I could have done, I'm all ears.



Sep 26, 2016 at 07:42 AM
IrishDino
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · To Respond or not to respond?


Get off email and tell her to meet in person.

You'll never "win" if you're emailing back and forth.



Sep 26, 2016 at 08:06 AM
bipock
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · To Respond or not to respond?


ZachOly wrote:
Get off email and tell her to meet in person.

You'll never "win" if you're emailing back and forth.


They are 4 hours away and apparently very busy. A FTF meeting isn't going to happen.



Sep 26, 2016 at 08:47 AM
IrishDino
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · To Respond or not to respond?


Skype, then.

But I wouldn't answer any of her concerns directly via email.

If she responds that she's too busy to talk, then don't email further.



Sep 26, 2016 at 08:57 AM
LeeSimms
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · To Respond or not to respond?


I'd chat on the phone and say (sympathetically) that you were disappointed that the day didn't go as planned and there didn't seem to be a real desire to look at the camera. Being a vendor who can adapt on the fly, you wanted to go along and give her the day that her actions showed she wanted (a wedding, not a photo shoot), but it was a disappointment as you had so many ideas after planning the timeline with her.

You could offer a free 1-hour day after session close to your studio. She won't drive the 4 hours, but at least she won't be the victim anymore.



Sep 26, 2016 at 09:03 AM





FM Forums | Wedding Photographer | Join Upload & Sell

    
 

You are not logged in. Login or Register

Username       Or Reset password



This site is protected by reCAPTCHA and the Google Privacy Policy and Terms of Service apply.