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Official: Voigtlander 65mm f/2 Macro Apo-Lanthar for $999
  
 
DavidBM
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p.45 #1 · p.45 #1 · Official: Voigtlander 65mm f/2 Macro Apo-Lanthar for $999


jlehet wrote:
Portrait focal length: I always think of a story about Imogen Cunningham, who was feisty. Apparently she saw a photographer doing a portrait with a long lens and she walked up to him and said, "What's the matter with you? Don't you like people?" I guess she never used a long lens for her portraits.

As for the CV65, I'm loving it more and more, but the shape of the bokeh balls between wide open and f8 is definitely problematic at times for me. I think I might have to sell my OM 50/2, as planned, but get an OM 50/3.5
...Show more

The OM 3.5/50 doesn't have the nicest bokeh balls, at mid apertures they are distracting hexagons (six blades). I'd rather the decagons of the cv.

Seems to be the weak spot of so many short macros. For macro use 11 or 15 curved blades would be ideal...



Sep 11, 2017 at 11:16 PM
jlehet
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p.45 #2 · p.45 #2 · Official: Voigtlander 65mm f/2 Macro Apo-Lanthar for $999


DavidBM wrote:
The OM 3.5/50 doesn't have the nicest bokeh balls, at mid apertures they are distracting hexagons (six blades). I'd rather the decagons of the cv.

Seems to be the weak spot of so many short macros. For macro use 11 or 15 curved blades would be ideal...


I don't know the 50/3.5 first hand, but the 50/2, which is also 6 bladed. The hexagons are often obnoxious, but sometimes kind of soft. The 50/2 is good for three stops, up to f4, and then the 6 bladedness of the thing takes over. I was thinking the 50/3.5 might also yield a few stops of goodness before the aperture is a problem.

I guess the decagons are sometimes soft too, but sometimes very hard and structured. I've been experimenting a lot and I really can't get a full handle on when and why they are sometimes so dramatic and other times hardly there. Even at f8, when they are often gone, they sometimes can show up dramatically. It seems they might be worst around f4 to 5 or so.

I've been using the OM 50/2 along with my OM 90/2 (and I also own the Bokina, and own but rarely use the Sony 90, which I'm going to get around to trying to sell again). I do like a shorter macro a lot of the time. Maybe some smooth lens with a macro lens or extension tube is the solution.



Sep 12, 2017 at 01:07 AM
DavidBM
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p.45 #3 · p.45 #3 · Official: Voigtlander 65mm f/2 Macro Apo-Lanthar for $999


The sun goes down behind the Wattle in the Penrose forest.

Nice performance against the light from this CV!







Sep 12, 2017 at 04:46 AM
genji
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p.45 #4 · p.45 #4 · Official: Voigtlander 65mm f/2 Macro Apo-Lanthar for $999


DavidBM wrote:
The sun goes down behind the Wattle in the Penrose forest.

Nice performance against the light from this CV!


This image (and the one you posted at the top of the previous page) perfectly illustrate the quality I most like from what I'm seeing from the CV65, what I'd describe as a kind of "transparency". In other words, the lens gets out of the way and allows the essence of the subject to be revealed.



Sep 12, 2017 at 06:02 AM
DavidBM
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p.45 #5 · p.45 #5 · Official: Voigtlander 65mm f/2 Macro Apo-Lanthar for $999


genji wrote:
This image (and the one you posted at the top of the previous page) perfectly illustrate the quality I most like from what I'm seeing from the CV65, what I'd describe as a kind of "transparency". In other words, the lens gets out of the way and allows the essence of the subject to be revealed.


I know what you mean, and I wish I knew what it really was. Images from the CV seem to be brighter, even when they are not. They are somehow...lighter, or as you say transparent. I wonder if it is that the white OOF highlights really are white, because of the colour correction, and that's what causes the effect? Or is it something about the contrast curve: after the deep shadows the curve picks up quickly due to its cleanness?

I'm always a bit suspicious of inexplicable overall features ascribed to optics, but there's something going on here..



Sep 12, 2017 at 06:27 AM
genji
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p.45 #6 · p.45 #6 · Official: Voigtlander 65mm f/2 Macro Apo-Lanthar for $999


DavidBM wrote:
I know what you mean, and I wish I knew what it really was. Images from the CV seem to be brighter, even when they are not. They are somehow...lighter, or as you say transparent. I wonder if it is that the white OOF highlights really are white, because of the colour correction, and that's what causes the effect? Or is it something about the contrast curve: after the deep shadows the curve picks up quickly due to its cleanness?

I'm always a bit suspicious of inexplicable overall features ascribed to optics, but there's something going on here..


We frequently talk about the polarity between lenses that are "full of character" and lenses that are "too clinical". Somehow the CV65 manages to remove itself from that conversation all together, something I was trying to get at when I described the images it produces as transparent. At the risk of getting all metaphysical, when I wrote about its allowing the essence of the subject to be revealed, I had in mind the relationship between Zen Buddhism and art:

The Zen artist... tries to suggest by the simplest possible means the inherent nature of the aesthetic object. Anything may be painted, or expressed in poetry, and any sounds may become music. The job of the artist is to suggest the essence, the eternal qualities of the object, which is in itself a work of natural art before the artist arrives on the scene. In order to achieve this, the artist must fully understand the inner nature of the aesthetic object, its Buddha nature. This is the hard part. Technique, though important, is useless without it; and the actual execution of...Show more

Perhaps, through some weird alchemy, Mr Kobayashi and his team have designed a tool that facilitates this process.



Sep 12, 2017 at 06:52 AM
DavidBM
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p.45 #7 · p.45 #7 · Official: Voigtlander 65mm f/2 Macro Apo-Lanthar for $999


genji wrote:
We frequently talk about the polarity between lenses that are "full of character" and lenses that are "too clinical".


I've never understood "too clinical"
I understand "full of character" - it's adorable aberrations that can really be nice.

But I've never found anything much in common between lenses people describe as "too clinical"
People say it about 1.8/55. Maybe it's just that its a lower contrast lens than many sharp ones, so it looks a bit flat until you boost contrast? But other "too clinical" lenses look different....



Sep 12, 2017 at 11:29 AM
jlehet
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p.45 #8 · p.45 #8 · Official: Voigtlander 65mm f/2 Macro Apo-Lanthar for $999


Are you a meditator gengi? I have been for many years (Dzogchen + Vipassana these days), and it is an essence of my photography in ways I try less and less to articulate. I've rewritten a lot of my artist's statements over the years, and I'm almost giving up trying to talk about that in them. I think many people can appreciate real zen art, but it takes a high level practitioner to make it. I'm not making real zen art, but practice is an influence.

I guess maybe when people say a lens is "too clinical" it's a shorthand for saying "the lens is accurate and has few flaws but I personally find the rendering un-pleasing." It is in a way trying to make a personal impression sound more objective.

And maybe "transparency" is simlar: saying, "this lens is accurate and with few flaws, but I find it pleasing."

When choosing lenses for my bag depending on my mood, the subject, where I'm planning to be, the light, I'll pick between lenses that are sharp and accurate vs lenses with character -- some wildness, dreaminess, also often full of flaws. This lens isn't wild, but it can be a bit dreamy -- less so than many. But at this point it's hard to imagine it not making the cut to go into the bag no matter what my mood or destination, unless I need to cut weight. I think if I had to write a full review of this lens I would be hard pressed to describe what it has that is "extra," beyond transparency.

My CV 35 1.7 is something like this too, and it goes in the bag whether I'm feeling zeissy or dreamy. When reviewing images and tagging the lenses, or looking through images, I can fairly reliably tell when it's the CV 35 1.7 by looking at a set of exposures made with through it. Like this 65, its main flaws are cats' eyes. Its bokeh is far less identifiable than this lens with its dodecahedrons. Stopped down, it is sharp and "transparent." But it has a character even without being a character lens.

Cosina Voigtlander has got something down with these lenses.






Sep 12, 2017 at 12:05 PM
jlehet
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p.45 #9 · p.45 #9 · Official: Voigtlander 65mm f/2 Macro Apo-Lanthar for $999


F 2.2








Sep 12, 2017 at 04:12 PM
jlehet
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p.45 #10 · p.45 #10 · Official: Voigtlander 65mm f/2 Macro Apo-Lanthar for $999


There is a horizontal line in the bottom bokeh area. It shows up in a few of these vertical bokeh series, but the horizontal ones don't seem to have it. This was 1/60 sec and I think with silent shutter. Just barely visible at this resolution, but quite clear at 1:1.


Sep 12, 2017 at 04:29 PM
 

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Fred Miranda
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p.45 #11 · p.45 #11 · Official: Voigtlander 65mm f/2 Macro Apo-Lanthar for $999


jlehet wrote:
There is a horizontal line in the bottom bokeh area. It shows up in a few of these vertical bokeh series, but the horizontal ones don't seem to have it. This was 1/60 sec and I think with silent shutter. Just barely visible at this resolution, but quite clear at 1:1.


I see the line but don't think it's the lens. It's probably caused by the silent shutter.



Sep 12, 2017 at 04:38 PM
DavidBM
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p.45 #12 · p.45 #12 · Official: Voigtlander 65mm f/2 Macro Apo-Lanthar for $999


Thought that an important comparison for the 2/65 is the Leica 2.5/75 (the 2.4/75 is optically the same with the aperture blades adjusted mechanically)

The Leica is as sharp, I think. And it's much smaller. It doesn't have much LoCA in the strict sense.
But it has much more spherochromatism!

Here are two images of Annie, taken a long time apart (it seems her expression when concentrating on the ball is always the same)

And check the crops of the nose: that spehrochromatism in the OOF areas is super hard to correct, and it's almost completely absent in the CV 65. This is an amazing lens.

Having said that, at the whole image level it's not too disturbing on the Leica image, and it is small and sharp and lovely in many ways....

(oh and before someone points out the eye is just marginally sharper in the Leica image, this is not something I've been able to reproduce - they are equivalently sharp - it's just small difference in vibration or focus in this image)





Annie; whole image







Annie whole Leica image







nose crop from CV







nose crop from Leica




Sep 13, 2017 at 12:33 AM
Phillip Reeve
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p.45 #13 · p.45 #13 · Official: Voigtlander 65mm f/2 Macro Apo-Lanthar for $999


I shot aSony FE 55 vs CV65 comparison.

Here are the more interesting pictures, all LR default settings:
Sony FE 1.8/55 | f/1.8 by Phillip Reeve Data, on Flickr

Voigtlander_65mmF2_APO_Macro-20 by Phillip Reeve Data, on Flickr

Voigtlander_65mmF2_APO_Macro-1 by Phillip Reeve Data, on Flickr

Voigtlander_65mmF2_APO_Macro-34 by Phillip Reeve Data, on Flickr

Voigtlander_65mmF2_APO_Macro-1 by Phillip Reeve Data, on Flickr

Voigtlander_65mmF2_APO_Macro-2 by Phillip Reeve Data, on Flickr

Voigtlander_65mmF2_APO_Macro-5 by Phillip Reeve Data, on Flickr

Voigtlander_65mmF2_APO_Macro-4 by Phillip Reeve Data, on Flickr

Voigtlander_65mmF2_APO_Macro-3 by Phillip Reeve Data, on Flickr

Voigtlander_65mmF2_APO_Macro-2 by Phillip Reeve Data, on Flickr

Voigtlander_65mmF2_APO_Macro-5 by Phillip Reeve Data, on Flickr

Voigtlander_65mmF2_APO_Macro-37 by Phillip Reeve Data, on Flickr

I also compared infinity sharpness but that comparison is boring since both perform on a very high level.











Edited on Sep 13, 2017 at 08:38 PM · View previous versions



Sep 13, 2017 at 08:33 PM
GMPhotography
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p.45 #14 · p.45 #14 · Official: Voigtlander 65mm f/2 Macro Apo-Lanthar for $999


Thanks Phillip. the VC has become a a cherished lens.. Just to add


Sep 13, 2017 at 08:37 PM
Fred Miranda
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p.45 #15 · p.45 #15 · Official: Voigtlander 65mm f/2 Macro Apo-Lanthar for $999


@Phillip Reeve, your 55/1.8ZA's sample with the golden lady statue (and last comparison) shows how the 'green fringing' high contrast area behind the focal plane, blends with the foliage and gives the impression of smoother rendering with lower contrast...so not all color aberration is bad...(Although I still hate it. )

The first comparison is a great torture test and shows how amazing the CV 65 APO really is.



Sep 13, 2017 at 08:42 PM
DannyBurkPhoto
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p.45 #16 · p.45 #16 · Official: Voigtlander 65mm f/2 Macro Apo-Lanthar for $999


genji wrote:
We frequently talk about the polarity between lenses that are "full of character" and lenses that are "too clinical". Somehow the CV65 manages to remove itself from that conversation all together, something I was trying to get at when I described the images it produces as transparent. At the risk of getting all metaphysical, when I wrote about its allowing the essence of the subject to be revealed, I had in mind

Perhaps, through some weird alchemy, Mr Kobayashi and his team have designed a tool that facilitates this process.


That's what is often said about Otus lenses (i.e. transparent), with which I agree - they don't really add or subtract anything from a scene, but present it as it really is. Remember when I said that the CV 65 is Otus-like? I still think it is, and your description of it being transparent falls in line nicely with this...



Sep 13, 2017 at 09:27 PM
Luvwine
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p.45 #17 · p.45 #17 · Official: Voigtlander 65mm f/2 Macro Apo-Lanthar for $999


Fred Miranda wrote:
@Phillip Reeve@, your 55/1.8ZA's sample with the golden lady statue (and last comparison) shows how the 'green fringing' high contrast area behind the focal plane, blends with the foliage and gives the impression of smoother rendering with lower contrast...so not all color aberration is bad...(Although I still hate it. )

The first comparison is a great torture test and shows how amazing the CV 65 APO really is.


Almost seems like the Voigtlander did not display all the magenta dye that must have been in that water fountain....😳



Sep 13, 2017 at 11:02 PM
Fred Miranda
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p.45 #18 · p.45 #18 · Official: Voigtlander 65mm f/2 Macro Apo-Lanthar for $999


Luvwine wrote:
Almost seems like the Voigtlander did not display all the magenta dye that must have been in that water fountain....😳


Now you know which lens to bring when fountain-shooting!



Sep 13, 2017 at 11:04 PM
GMPhotography
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p.45 #19 · p.45 #19 · Official: Voigtlander 65mm f/2 Macro Apo-Lanthar for $999


hey is that the fountain of youth or wealth. I could use both actually.


Sep 13, 2017 at 11:11 PM
GMPhotography
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p.45 #20 · p.45 #20 · Official: Voigtlander 65mm f/2 Macro Apo-Lanthar for $999


Look at the gold statue the VC is holding the specular highlights better in the upper chest area better.


Sep 13, 2017 at 11:23 PM
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