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Archive 2016 · LM Mount 35mm

  
 
retrofocus
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p.2 #1 · p.2 #1 · LM Mount 35mm


sebboh wrote:
cool, i'd love to hear if it has decent corners on the a7m. what aperture does it become useable for landscape, if ever?


Agreed that the optics in the latest ASPH version likely did not change at all. In this case, you can try to use the lens at all aperture stops - the corners will always look unsharp no matter what and there will be severe focus shift even in the center. LeicaBoss had once a great website describing the issue of the 35/2 ASPH lens on Sony A7 sensors (the site is removed since a while unfortunately). IMO the only feasible Leica 35/2 mm solution on a Sony FF camera is with the lens version IV as latest version (earlier ones likely work well, too).



Sep 11, 2016 at 07:28 PM
sebboh
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p.2 #2 · p.2 #2 · LM Mount 35mm




retrofocus wrote:
Agreed that the optics in the latest ASPH version likely did not change at all. In this case, you can try to use the lens at all aperture stops - the corners will always look unsharp no matter what and there will be severe focus shift even in the center. LeicaBoss had once a great website describing the issue of the 35/2 ASPH lens on Sony A7 sensors (the site is removed since a while unfortunately). IMO the only feasible Leica 35/2 mm solution on a Sony FF camera is with the lens version IV as latest version (earlier ones
...Show more

we were talking about the summarit not the summicron ASPH. fwiw, all the luxes are pretty good, though not as good as on an m. midzone can be more of a problem than corners for some.



Sep 11, 2016 at 08:30 PM
retrofocus
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p.2 #3 · p.2 #3 · LM Mount 35mm


sebboh wrote:
we were talking about the summarit not the summicron ASPH. fwiw, all the luxes are pretty good, though not as good as on an m. midzone can be more of a problem than corners for some.


The 35/2.5 and the 35/1.4 M versions should all be good. I checked out once the Leica 35/1.4 Summilux on my A7R, and it did very well.



Sep 12, 2016 at 09:17 AM
uhoh7
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p.2 #4 · p.2 #4 · LM Mount 35mm


jhinkey wrote:
Yeah, the 35/2.8 Sony is a great all-arounder lens perfect for travel, but it's a compromise lens in just about all aspects.


There is no compromise in size, and sharpness from 2.8 to at least 5.6 is unequaled by any 35 on the stock cameras from what I have seen (assuming it's a good copy). Yes, build is meh, and OOF is a bit meh, but the ZM 35/1.4 is no bokeh king either

I'm not surprised the 35 cron does not work on the stock cameras. Again I think the sleeper is the CV 35/1.4, cheap, tiny, fast and usable even for landscape. It's the best really small M I've seen for the thick covered Sonys.

Derek, maybe your pre-asph is just as good?

Here on the stock A7r:

cv 35/1.4 by unoh7, WO


cv 35 1.4 by unoh7, F/8

A close look at the last will show the contortions of the lens and the body do not match exactly

Look good on the camera though:

DSC05768 by unoh7, on Flickr


It was quite a treat to see this lens and the CV 35/2.5 on the M9, once I bought one, but some real peeping made clear that landscape performance was not optimal in either case. At f8 the 1.4 was actually a bit better than the 2.5 to my surprise.


L1016991 by unoh7, f/8 on M9

There is the considerable distortion to deal with, however. But for the OP using a techart, without mod, the lens is very fast, 400USD, and I don't see the ZM 35/1.4 doing all that much better if it does as well.

Edited on Sep 12, 2016 at 12:51 PM · View previous versions



Sep 12, 2016 at 12:25 PM
retrofocus
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p.2 #5 · p.2 #5 · LM Mount 35mm


uhoh7 wrote:
I'm not surprised the 35 cron does not work on the stock cameras. Again I think the sleeper is the CV 35/1.4, cheap, tiny, fast and usable even for landscape. It's the best really small M I've seen for the thick covered Sonys.



The older 35 crons work very well on the Sony A7 series without issue as I pointed out above. I read reviews online that the CV 35/1.4 is not doing too well on Sony A7 series. It was the main reason why I went with the well working CV 35/1.2 II instead (more bulky but optically the better performer on Sony's sensor stack).



Sep 12, 2016 at 12:49 PM
uhoh7
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p.2 #6 · p.2 #6 · LM Mount 35mm


I'd love to see a landscape with old cron on A7

40/2 is kind of usable, so maybe they really are OK. But it will be news to me.

The best M performance I ever saw on the stock cameras was Phillip's CV 35/1.7, which was not even centered



Sep 12, 2016 at 12:52 PM
Luvwine
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p.2 #7 · p.2 #7 · LM Mount 35mm


uhoh7 wrote:
There is no compromise in size, and sharpness from 2.8 to at least 5.6 is unequaled by any 35 on the stock cameras from what I have seen (assuming it's a good copy). Yes, build is meh, and OOF is a bit meh, but the ZM 35/1.4 is no bokeh king either

I'm not surprised the 35 cron does not work on the stock cameras. Again I think the sleeper is the CV 35/1.4, cheap, tiny, fast and usable even for landscape. It's the best really small M I've seen for the thick covered Sonys.

Derek, maybe your pre-asph is
...Show more

I disagree somewhat with the comment about sharpness of the FE 35/2.8. While on the periphery it is the best 35mm from F2.8-F. 4 and arguably 5.6, sharpness in the central region is bettered by some other lenses at all common apertures. While peripheral region sharpness is certainly a nice feature to have, for my purposes it is usually less important at large apertures. By F5.6 arguably or certainly F8 overall sharpness is exceeded by some other lenses. While the virtue of small size and light weight is undeniable, I have had to return the lens under warranty one time due to glue failure and then learned to crazy glue the lens, which I have had to do twice (two different parts) when glue failed. I personally am happy to trade some build quality for weight but everyone is different there. The FE 35/2.8 is a fine and useful lens for the A7x series and I can see why many would choose it as their overall favorite. However, if willing to accept and work around some limitations, there are other lenses that can provide somewhat better performance.



Sep 12, 2016 at 01:13 PM
sebboh
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p.2 #8 · p.2 #8 · LM Mount 35mm


uhoh wrote:
There is the considerable distortion to deal with, however. But for the OP using a techart, without mod, the lens is very fast, 400USD, and I don't see the ZM 35/1.4 doing all that much better if it does as well.


interesting, the lux pre-ASPH doesn't really have any distortion. you really should look at some full sized samples from the zm 35/1.4 on the a7rii, it does much better than cv 35/1.4 or any FE I've seen.



Sep 12, 2016 at 01:27 PM
retrofocus
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p.2 #9 · p.2 #9 · LM Mount 35mm


uhoh7 wrote:
I'd love to see a landscape with old cron on A7

40/2 is kind of usable, so maybe they really are OK. But it will be news to me.

The best M performance I ever saw on the stock cameras was Phillip's CV 35/1.7, which was not even centered


I am using the Summicron 35/2 version IV quite often for landscape photography on my A7R (with Fotasy M/NEX adapter). Here a few examples as requested - minimal post processing was done, no corner correction. First photo taken with tripod, the rest hand held.

http://martinbluhm.zenfolio.com/img/s1/v21/p2046963551-5.jpg


http://martinbluhm.zenfolio.com/img/s9/v88/p1949441341-5.jpg


http://martinbluhm.zenfolio.com/img/s/v-2/p1944765902-5.jpg


http://martinbluhm.zenfolio.com/img/s7/v152/p2115932271-5.jpg



Sep 12, 2016 at 09:33 PM
Luvwine
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p.2 #10 · p.2 #10 · LM Mount 35mm


retrofocus wrote:



I am using the Summicron 35/2 version IV quite often for landscape photography on my A7R (with Fotasy M/NEX adapter). Here a few examples as requested - minimal post processing was done, no corner correction. First photo taken with tripod, the rest hand held.

http://martinbluhm.zenfolio.com/img/s1/v21/p2046963551-5.jpg


http://martinbluhm.zenfolio.com/img/s9/v88/p1949441341-5.jpg


http://martinbluhm.zenfolio.com/img/s/v-2/p1944765902-5.jpg


http://martinbluhm.zenfolio.com/img/s7/v152/p2115932271-5.jpg


Nice pics. The first one almost has a "toy castle" look to it to me. Not sure if that is the subject or lens tho.



Sep 12, 2016 at 09:57 PM
retrofocus
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p.2 #11 · p.2 #11 · LM Mount 35mm


Luvwine wrote:
Nice pics. The first one almost has a "toy castle" look to it to me. Not sure if that is the subject or lens tho.


Thanks - the first one looks like it in reality - simply taken at f/11.



Sep 13, 2016 at 06:17 AM
freaklikeme
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p.2 #12 · p.2 #12 · LM Mount 35mm


sebboh wrote:
cool, i'd love to hear if it has decent corners on the a7m. what aperture does it become useable for landscape, if ever?


Okay, now that the lens has taken a trip with me, I can say that it's far better close up below f/5.6 on either the a7m or a7rII than it is at landscape distances, but there's not a lot of difference between the two cameras. You need f/8 to get the best out of the lens on either. The good news is the mid-zone dip isn't as pronounced as it is on the Summicron or Summilux ASPHs.

And now I'm selling it along with the FE 50 (which will hopefully be the last 50 I ever buy). I need to accept that a fast 35 + a 60ish + a 100ish is where I'm most comfortable.



Nov 01, 2016 at 08:55 PM
uhoh7
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p.2 #13 · p.2 #13 · LM Mount 35mm


Well my suggestion to work with the Sony sonnar is roundly rejected

You guys have shot with it, and I just looked at samples.

So, in the fall of 2016 the best landscape 35 for the A7r2 is a ZM35/1.4?

Incredible

It almost seems like Sony's chickens are coming home to roost, with quite few moving to one Fuji or another.


3 by unoh7, on Flickr

I got to learn the XT2 recently Nice touches all over the place. But that smaller sensor and the guts would suggest a native lens set.

Complete deal breaker for me. My interest is in the glass, and the bodies should help them, not hinder. I use the Kolari A7 all the time, but from 18-35, the M9 is so nice, the Sony gets stuck with the longer lenses most of the time, if I have both bodies (often I do)

Except on halloween for fun I threw the CV 21/4 Skopar on the A7m:

DSC08884 by unoh7, on Flickr

Usable for me Obviously SEM21 is WAY better, but there is always room for the tiny Skopar, so I took it off my "sell it" list.

M/LTM, what a feast, and nowhere more than at 35mm......but with a stock Sony body, everything at 35 is a comprise, either on the original design, in the case of M lenses, or in results, like the Sony 35 (I guess), still. Yikes.



Broken record here

Here the CV 35/1.4 WO with A7m on Halloween also:

DSC08605 by unoh7, on Flickrr

Looking through the 8 or 10 shots I made with the CV 35/1.4, I must admit the ZM 35/1.4 is probably 10 times better WO even on the stock bodies

DSC08595-2 by unoh7, on Flickr

The little Nokton just has some crazy dips really obvious in the second shot, which may be 2.8. Why I did not just shoot it at f/8? Oh well And of all the lenses I used this day, the Nokton was most muted in color. (it's the MC version)

In truth, the best technical 35 I have for the A7m is an old PC-Nikkor 35/2.8, and for a shoot like this I should have used my FD 35/2 concave thorium, which is pretty sweet WO and has great character. Someday maybe I will get a FLE, that I bet will be great on both my bodies.



Nov 02, 2016 at 08:11 PM
gyoung143
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p.2 #14 · p.2 #14 · LM Mount 35mm


I have tried my PC Nikkor 35/2.8 on my stock A7, but its big! If you're going for F mount my 40/2 Ultron SLll is really good, and quite small/light. I use it with a cheapish G to E adapter and the short throw aperture control (which makes it useless for Nikon G lenses) makes an excellent pre-set diaphragm control on AiS, faster to use than Loxia ;-)

Gerry



Nov 03, 2016 at 04:28 AM
genji
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p.2 #15 · p.2 #15 · LM Mount 35mm


freaklikeme wrote:
Okay, now that the lens has taken a trip with me, I can say that it's far better close up below f/5.6 on either the a7m or a7rII than it is at landscape distances, but there's not a lot of difference between the two cameras. You need f/8 to get the best out of the lens on either. The good news is the mid-zone dip isn't as pronounced as it is on the Summicron or Summilux ASPHs.

And now I'm selling it along with the FE 50 (which will hopefully be the last 50 I ever buy). I need to accept
...Show more

Interesting. The 35/60/100 trio is an example of a (nearly) perfectly spaced lens set. Others that come to mind are 35/55/85 and 28/50/90. I'm curious about which 35, 60ish, and 100ish lenses you would choose. I'd probably go for the Distagon C/Y 35/1.4, the Makro-Elmarit-R 60/2.8 (or the Rokkor MC 58/1.2), and the Canon 100/2 LTM (or the Sonnar C/Y 100/3.5).



Nov 03, 2016 at 06:38 AM
freaklikeme
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p.2 #16 · p.2 #16 · LM Mount 35mm


genji wrote:
Interesting. The 35/60/100 trio is an example of a (nearly) perfectly spaced lens set. Others that come to mind are 35/55/85 and 28/50/90. I'm curious about which 35, 60ish, and 100ish lenses you would choose. I'd probably go for the Distagon C/Y 35/1.4, the Makro-Elmarit-R 60/2.8 (or the Rokkor MC 58/1.2), and the Canon 100/2 LTM (or the Sonnar C/Y 100/3.5).


Good options. Mine depends on where I'm going and what I'm shooting. For events/parties/portraits where people are the focus, I'd go with the very people-friendly pre-A Summilux-M 35/1.4, Rokkor 58/1.2, and pre-AA Summicron-M 90. For more object/building/landscape oriented shooting, it's now the ZM 35/1.4, Rodenstock HR 60/4, and APO-Elmarit-R 100/2.8.



Nov 03, 2016 at 05:39 PM
lenticular11
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p.2 #17 · p.2 #17 · LM Mount 35mm


I haven't got a lot to add, especially since I haven't recorded aperture data on any shots I took with either the CV35/1.4 MC or the Summicron 40 on my former unmodded A7R.

Some samples, for what it's worth:

Summicron 40 on A7R

Sydney Harbour bridge hidden by mist by David M, on Flickr
SmithsBeach, Phillip Island by David M, on Flickr


These next two look fairly wide-open

72_DSC5134-1400_Q95_10_0 by David M, on Flickr
Patterns in the sand - colour by David M, on Flickr


CV35/1.4 MC
This one says it was probably at f5.6

Lakeside jetty in winter - 2 by David M, on Flickr

Dropbox public link to a very large (72dpi) version of the last one



Nov 04, 2016 at 01:01 AM
uhoh7
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p.2 #18 · p.2 #18 · LM Mount 35mm


Well, after realizing I may not have a great technical 35 for even the modded Sony, since the ZM 35/2 is still not ideal, though certainly more usable, I dug out the CV 35/1.2.

Now, shooting this lens in daylight on the m9 I noted softening on the edges, but maybe that was calibration.....

Because on the Kolari, it does seem pretty strong:


DSC08979 by unoh7, f/5.6

one more:

DSC08976 by unoh7, 5.6 iso

this was much better than I expected, so I should try some faster now.

Of course, the lens is not a nice small 35

I do use it alot, but usually after dark.



Nov 04, 2016 at 09:57 AM
expwmbat
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p.2 #19 · p.2 #19 · LM Mount 35mm


Very interesting thread--thanks for the contributions and comparisons. It has all served to make me feel even better about my FD SSC 35/2 concave thoriated. It appears that even leaving aside the price/value part of the equation, the Canon competes head to head with the 35mm M glass on the Sony A7 series.

What difference, if any, does having the Kolari mod offer with regard to the wide Canon FD lenses?

Cheers,
Daniel



Nov 04, 2016 at 12:27 PM
uhoh7
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p.2 #20 · p.2 #20 · LM Mount 35mm


expwmbat wrote:
Very interesting thread--thanks for the contributions and comparisons. It has all served to make me feel even better about my FD SSC 35/2 concave thoriated. It appears that even leaving aside the price/value part of the equation, the Canon competes head to head with the 35mm M glass on the Sony A7 series.

What difference, if any, does having the Kolari mod offer with regard to the wide Canon FD lenses?

Cheers,
Daniel


I thought the FD 35/2 got quite a bit better, but I don't have the data to prove it, and many think I'm nuts on that. Possibly on the plain A7, I am seeing the removal of the AA filter and reading that change as related to the thickness.

Here it is on the Kolari:

FJ by unoh7, on Flickr

And here it was before the mod on the A7:

DSC00114-2 by unoh7, on Flickr


DSC00084-2 by unoh7, on Flickr

Very imperfect comparison, but I think you can see why I think it's improved. All these are at F/2

Also, today I tested the CV 35/1.2 more carfully at 4 apertures.

In that test I start at F/1.4, where there are actually some details on the edges, by F/4 the image is much improved (of course), but I would not shoot a normal landscape before 5.6, and at f/8 the lens seems very strong. In fact, though I did not include the shots, it was still good stopped past f/11.

I'm going to guess it beats my ZM 35/2 on this camera: the Kolari A7, which is news to me

But that point is totally moot: why would one want a LM 35 for A7? Compact performance. You can easily take 2 small LM mount lenses for the size and weight of either the 35/1.2 or adapted FD 35/2. The WO performance is somewhat academic for the landscapes, where 5.6 or F/8 or often F/11 (for DOF) are far more useful. The ZM 35/2 is a decent size (identical to SEM21) and here it is at 5.6 on the M9:

Wood River by unoh7, on Flickr

Now 5.6 or f/8 on the Kolari:

Foothills of Smoky Dome by unoh7, on Flickr
Another very imperfect comparison, A7m is at the disadvantage shooting right under the sun, but you get the point. They are really pretty close when you examine fine distant detail on the edge.

Since the ZM 35/2 is a real problem lens on the stock cameras, I think this implies the A7m is going to shoot basically all the LM 35s pretty well: asph cron included, which is probably the biggest punch in the smaller package of the class. But when I look very close, the M9 always brings the edges in several stops before the Kolari 35 and wider.

If you like RF glass, I don't think there is a more friendly digital than the M9, excepting of course the crop M8

Yes, it's better than 240, which cannot shoot the ZM 35/2 as well.....and actually will shift colors with that lens at times. Of course the 240 smokes with the modern Leica glass like the ASPH cron, where they have made a really good in-camera profile. But the overall draw does differ with various M lenses, like the 28 cron. Just does not appear to be the same lens. Sharp though They say the sensor cover is more thin on the M9, and thinnest on the M8.



Nov 04, 2016 at 10:36 PM
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