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Archive 2016 · 5DIV - Weak Pre-Orders?

  
 
tonyhart
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · 5DIV - Weak Pre-Orders?


I had a conversation today with a Calumet agent regarding a test drive and possible purchase of a 5DIV. The way the conversation proceeded suggested to me that Canon do not have a hit on their hands. To quote from the email:

"The way things are going I will have stock for you to purchase way before October so I will not hold one for you but once my rental stocks come in I will get the deposit etc sorted for that"

Sounds to me like they're not exactly selling like hotcakes. Am I misreading this?




Sep 08, 2016 at 08:23 AM
M. Best
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · 5DIV - Weak Pre-Orders?


I think that with all the different bodies you can get for around that price point, they may have to come down a little. Then it should sell more. There's a big difference between what was out now vs 4 years ago with the 5D3.


Sep 08, 2016 at 08:27 AM
tonyhart
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · 5DIV - Weak Pre-Orders?


Agreed. I just think Canon's corporate approach of extreme conservatism (aka too little too late) is beginning to catch up with them. I think this cycle will hit them HARD due to their unwillingness to bring aggressive products/pricing to market.


Sep 08, 2016 at 08:31 AM
jcolwell
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · 5DIV - Weak Pre-Orders?


You might be right, but I think it's far too soon to make this call.

Regardless, I don't think the 5D IV will be a total-fail by any stretch, even if it sells fewer units than the 5D III.



Sep 08, 2016 at 08:42 AM
tonyhart
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · 5DIV - Weak Pre-Orders?


jcolwell wrote:
You might be right, but I think it's far too soon to make this call.

Regardless, I don't think the 5D IV will be a total-fail by any stretch, even if it sells fewer units than the 5D III.


Agreed. It'll do ok in terms of sales, but I think it might represent a watershed moment.



Sep 08, 2016 at 08:55 AM
Paul Mo
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · 5DIV - Weak Pre-Orders?


I think when real world images come out in great number and people see a perceptible difference in dynamic range - possibly finally taming the high whites - then desire will only grow and people will take a long hard at their 5D3s.


Sep 08, 2016 at 09:03 AM
tonyhart
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · 5DIV - Weak Pre-Orders?


Paul Mo wrote:
I think when real world images come out in great number and people see a perceptible difference in dynamic range - possibly finally taming the high whites - then desire will only grow and people will take a long hard at their 5D3s.


I think that people are getting tired of being customers of the largest camera company in the world which is offering products that are less compelling and more expensive than the competition.

I am a Canon user, always have been, and I'd LOVE to remain a Canon shooter. It's becoming a harder and harder sell though.

The 5DIV is going to be a GREAT camera. No doubt. It'll take great pictures and any half decent photographer will be able to use it to create wonderful work. However it won't match certain other competitors models which came out some time ago, it's stupendously pricey and it all feels 'a bit rich'.

Sure, they'll sell a bunch, but I feel like this is the turning point for Canon as a provider to professional event photographers.



Sep 08, 2016 at 09:13 AM
Robin Smith
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · 5DIV - Weak Pre-Orders?


Well, I wouldn't expect this to rush off the shelves like the 5DII or even the 5DIII did. If you have a 5DIII the need to upgrade is not very compellling. This is not saying it's not a good camera (I'm getting one) but it's not like it's a startling improvement. Who needs to buy a new camera every 3-5 years nowadays? What practical difference is it really going to make? Having said this, just because some guy at Calumet said this means very little. Didn't Calumet go bust?


Sep 08, 2016 at 09:28 AM
Imagemaster
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · 5DIV - Weak Pre-Orders?


I'm sure Canon and many Canon shooters don't much care if you think the 5D4 is not great enough for you. Many are quite happy with the Canon gear they already own and don't NEED anything the competitors' models have.

It is always amusing to hear someone complain about a new camera that they have not even used. I hardly think that one new camera model that is not up to your expectations is a turning point for Canon.



Edited on Sep 08, 2016 at 09:39 AM · View previous versions



Sep 08, 2016 at 09:38 AM
tonyhart
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · 5DIV - Weak Pre-Orders?


I'm in the UK where Calumet still operate. Most people don't need new cameras every few years but lots of wedding photographers, I for one, push their cameras hard and although a camera won't improve the photographer it may increase hit rates, ease editing or allow access to extremes of imaging otherwise inaccessible.


Sep 08, 2016 at 09:39 AM
ggreene
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · 5DIV - Weak Pre-Orders?


5D4 currently at #1 on Amazon's top selling DSLR list. We'll have to see how the sales hold up over time. 5D3 sits at #10. Canon has 11 of the top spots. Doesn't look like a gloom and doom watershed moment to me.


Sep 08, 2016 at 09:43 AM
EvilZardoz
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · 5DIV - Weak Pre-Orders?


I could walk in off the street and buy a 5D III the day it was launched. It was a bit harder with the 5D IV but I did the same today. It's a bit more incremental, but a very large amount of the features in that camera will see use on a frequent basis.

The price is a big hurdle, even moreso for Australian customers who are suffering from a bad exchange rate this time (Camera cost me $4950 this time vs. $3600 for the mark III). I would have loved some more low light sensitivity for the price, but it's still going to be a beautiful way to record history and make images that my friends and clients will love for a lifetime.



Sep 08, 2016 at 09:45 AM
tonyhart
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · 5DIV - Weak Pre-Orders?


Imagemaster wrote:
I'm sure Canon and many Canon shooters don't much care if you think the 5D4 is great enough for you. Many are quite happy with the Canon gear they already own and don't NEED anything the competitors' models have.

It is always amusing to hear someone complain about a new camera that they have not even used. I hardly think that one new camera model that is not up to your expectations is a turning point for Canon.



There are some wonderfully florid misrepresentations of what I said in that post!

I may buy a 5D4, but then again I may not. I'm sure many Canon shooters are happy with the gear they own. The point I'm making is that the 5D line has been, in terms of sales, the dominant camera in it's segment. It may not entirely lose this dominance in one generation, but I wouldn't be surprised if it's dominance starts to weaken.

Nor am I basing this view on the idea on my view alone. Come and check out the wedding forum - where this is cross posted. Lots of Canon users for sure, but lots of people who have seen the benefits of Nikon cameras in particular and who have lamented the sensor inferiority that Canon have shown over the years. Sure the 5DIV represents a step forward but it remains a catch up game. I can think of a glut of serious shooters who have moved to Nikon and I can think of others, such as myself who have held on in the hope of something that will genuinely level the playing field. Many of those who have held on remain unconvinced. Of course it'll sell, but I think Canon are losing their chokehold on this segment.

Also, I may not have used the camera, but I've used every other model of 5D and I'm familiar with the AF system in the new model. I've not shot test images myself, but I've seen them, which amounts to much the same thing. Canon are welcome to ignore me, but I am free to complain. I've invested a lot of money in Canon and shot hundreds of thousands of images with them. Their unwillingness to develop the camera I and many others want is frustrating.




Sep 08, 2016 at 09:48 AM
tonyhart
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · 5DIV - Weak Pre-Orders?


Perhaps I am wrong folks. Perhaps I am wrong. I'm not touting this position as fact, just an opinion.

Reconvene in 4 yrs?



Sep 08, 2016 at 09:49 AM
ggreene
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · 5DIV - Weak Pre-Orders?


There are a ton of photographers out there taking outstanding photos without using the "dominant" camera in their segment. It's not a prereq for success.

It really doesn't matter how much you have invested in Canon if the experience of using it is frustrating to you. Maybe it's time to find a system that meets your needs? Canon is interested in spec'ing out gear that will sell to the larger market. They are never going to make a Tony Hart Special Edition.




Sep 08, 2016 at 10:00 AM
Mark_L
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · 5DIV - Weak Pre-Orders?


tonyhart wrote:
Agreed. I just think Canon's corporate approach of extreme conservatism (aka too little too late) is beginning to catch up with them. I think this cycle will hit them HARD due to their unwillingness to bring aggressive products/pricing to market.


I'd also call it arrogance. Like Nikon, they seem to think all they have to do is announce a new model and photogs will pre-order immediately failing to realise the digital gravy train is slowing as sensor tech advances slow and what we have is good enough.

I think lots of people need to see proof that this is a real step forward to part with their money.



Sep 08, 2016 at 10:06 AM
Scrumhalf
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · 5DIV - Weak Pre-Orders?


I'm rather surprised by your sentiments, Tony.

I'm not in the market for a 5D4 and I don't own a 5D3 either, so I have no skin in this game, but what I've ALWAYS heard is that the 5D3 is the ultimate versatile camera, almost perfect, except for banding in shadows that especially compromised wedding photographers because they had a hard time dealing with high DR subjects like the brides dress and the groom's tux in the same frame.

And along comes the 5D4 that seems to have taken all the goodness of the 5D3 and fixed the MAIN gripe that people had about the 5D3, namely banding noise in the shadows. The 5D4 also seems to have as good or better high ISO performance as the 6D. In other words, Canon has taken the "perfect" camera and made it better. How can a perfect-er camera all of a sudden be meh?

Edited on Sep 08, 2016 at 10:10 AM · View previous versions



Sep 08, 2016 at 10:09 AM
AvianScott
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · 5DIV - Weak Pre-Orders?


Judging by the sell-off of dozens and dozens of 5DIII on used camera sale groups on facebook, sales of the 5DIV will be just fine.


Sep 08, 2016 at 10:09 AM
dhphoto
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · 5DIV - Weak Pre-Orders?


I can't say I'm terribly surprised. If you are a dedicated Canon FF shooter you probably already have a 5D2, 5D3 or a 1-series. The 5D4 isn't a dramatic upgrade.

It's also not that long since you were offered a 5DS or 5DSR which may have stretched the finances.

Great camera though the 5D4 will probably be it may not be in the 'buying-cycle' for your average professional who already has gear good enough to do the job.

I might pick one up when the price has dropped to a sensible level in a year or so. Or maybe not.



Sep 08, 2016 at 10:11 AM
Robin Smith
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · 5DIV - Weak Pre-Orders?


I hate to state the obvious but Canon did quite a lot of research as to what people wanted in the mkIV...and this is what they came up with. Judging from past performance they do a good job and arguably better than anyone else in predicting this and benefiting from it in terms of resulting sales. Of course, past performance is no judge of future performance. The price is bad, but again, history has proved them right many times and their pricing has always been like this.


Sep 08, 2016 at 10:33 AM
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