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Archive 2016 · Newspaper uses images without permission

  
 
Ralph Thompson
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Newspaper uses images without permission


Back in June, I was contacted by MLB for images of a first round draft prospect. I sent them (Licensed to MLB and the team that picked him) a couple images were used by both MLB and the team that drafted him. Both photos were imbedded in an "art banner". A couple days later, the small town paper runs a heavily cropped version of my image on social media, and their on-line edition. I don't know, they may have run it in their print edition too, but I didn't see it. No photo credit was given.

I sent an email to the publisher, no reply. I followed up with a call to the editor. He said they took the image down from social media and were removing it from their on-line edition. When I asked how they got the image he forward my call to the reporter. The reporter stated the family gave him a screen shot of the photo and he ran it. I asked the reporter (who has several decades of experience) how he was granted license to run a screen shot? He hung up on me... I called the family, they didn't recall giving an image to the paper.

Today I googled the player and found the image on Townnews.com (a content sharing service) as well as the archive photo on the paper's site.

Circulation is around 8,500. Is this worth going after? It really pisses me off for the reporter to be this bold to steal the image and list it on a content sharing site attributed to his publication...

Your thoughts?

Ralph




Aug 30, 2016 at 11:36 PM
glort
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Newspaper uses images without permission


Ralph Thompson wrote:
Circulation is around 8,500. Is this worth going after?


Probably not.

That said, I have seen mention here of some service that peruses claims on the photographers behalf. I understand they don't require payment, they take a ( large) percentage of anything they get.
I'm sure someone will give you the details.

It really pisses me off for the reporter to be this bold to steal the image and list it on a content sharing site attributed to his publication...
Your thoughts?



Yeah, I'd be pissed too.
I'd also be giving the matter to the people that collect these sort of things even If I got nothing out of it. To me it would be worth it to teach the arrogant arses that belligerently stealing material is NOT acceptable no matter how common practice their lack of ethics and morals make it these days.

Wonder how these tools would be if they gave you a 50 to get their lunch and you didn't give them the change? I'll bet they would think it crime of the century yet when they steal from you and a lot more.... That's OK and they will do it again as soon as it's convenient.
-Maybe- if you can pursue it they will think a bit more carefully next time. I'm sure financial penalty is the only way they will learn to do what they should have the common decency to do in the first place.

Good luck with it and let us know how it turns out.



Aug 31, 2016 at 01:09 AM
Robby1969
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Newspaper uses images without permission


Good luck if you do try to do anything.our small town 3 days a week paper will find pictures and do a screen shot all the time.when asked people have been told we will give you credit for it. lol


Aug 31, 2016 at 08:41 PM
rw11
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Newspaper uses images without permission


what exactly did the license say?


Aug 31, 2016 at 09:06 PM
Frank Lauri
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Newspaper uses images without permission


Ralph it may be a worthwhile venture for you to contact a lawyer just to inquire if you have any options to pursue this legally...especially since they are being so arrogant about it.

Good Luck
Frank



Sep 01, 2016 at 08:17 AM
schlotz
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Newspaper uses images without permission


Slightly similar issue here last year. However in my case the head of the paper recognized their transgression, corrected all social media and ran the photo the next day (same size) providing me full credit. Additionally I was paid their standard stringer fee for the photo. Interesting part was the first lower level contact tried a similar excuse indicating the coach had provided them the photo which I immediately pointed out that it did not absolve them of their responsibility to acquire permission for use. Basically possession of stolen goods and utilizing the thief as their authorization.

Personally, I would pursue it a bit more and talk to higher level management. People should be held accountable for their actions. JMTC

Matt



Sep 01, 2016 at 10:13 AM
JMDobson
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Newspaper uses images without permission


I work for a small daily paper, and I'd like to chime in. I often process submitted photos from all sorts of people, and organizations. We do not have a formal policy for handling a photo that was stolen, but what I normally do is ask the submitter where they got the photo. If they say screenshot or something similar, I try to get the photographer's information. I call them up if possible and ask If I can just give credit. I understand everyone wants to get paid, but I don't have authority to do that. If they say no, I'm instructed to find another photo of them with someone who is willing to work with me.
My advice is to call the editor back, let them know that what they did is wrong, and use this as a polite teaching moment. Explain that photos cost money, and that you'd love to let them publish with their standard freelancer rate. If they just pass the blame... just move on. Small papers like this are not worth the hassle most of the time.



Sep 01, 2016 at 10:41 AM
glort
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Newspaper uses images without permission




Maybe not but someone does. Wether they choose to or not is a different matter.

If they say no, I'm instructed to find another photo of them with someone who is willing to work with me.


Translated:

"If they say no, I'm instructed to keep looking and find someone who will give their work or Iphone snaps away for free which we will profit out of. "

Sound's like the paper you work for is exactly the type of organisation that is killing the industry for so many shooters and have no regard for quality of work but every regard for getting whatever they want for nothing.



Sep 01, 2016 at 12:45 PM
nolaguy
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Newspaper uses images without permission


JMDobson wrote:
I work for a small daily paper, and I'd like to chime in. I often process submitted photos from all sorts of people, and organizations.


Here it comes.


JMDobson wrote:
We do not have a formal policy for handling a photo that was stolen,


Why in the world not? This is your business, right?


JMDobson wrote:
...but what I normally do is ask the submitter where they got the photo. If they say screenshot or something similar, I try to get the photographer's information. I call them up if possible and ask If I can just give credit.


"try"

"if possible"

Seriously... that's what you're going with?... and you're posting this voluntarily?


JMDobson wrote:
I understand everyone wants to get paid, but I don't have authority to do that.


I would assume you like to be paid too?

Do you have the authority to publish if you can't reach the photographer or verify rights?


JMDobson wrote:
If they say no, I'm instructed to find another photo of them with someone who is willing to work with me.


This is better. That's a policy.

What's the policy if you can't reach the photographer?

Do you get written releases when you do reach the photographer or are you comfortable with a phone call with someone claiming to have rights to the image saying sure, print it.


JMDobson wrote:
My advice is to call the editor back, let them know that what they did is wrong, and use this as a polite teaching moment.


How likely is it that an editor of even a tiny publication isn't well aware of the criminal aspects under discussion?


JMDobson wrote:
Explain that photos cost money, and that you'd love to let them publish with their standard freelancer rate. If they just pass the blame... just move on.


Nah - they already know photos and content in general costs money. I would say explain to them they're jerks but they also already know that.


JMDobson wrote:
Small papers like this are not worth the hassle most of the time.


Very true. And they so count on that.


glort wrote:
Sound's like the paper you work for is exactly the type of organisation that is killing the industry for so many shooters and have no regard for quality of work but every regard for getting whatever they want for nothing.


Translated, they can't or won't afford the legitimate costs of doing business nor are they overly concerned with stealing.

Amateurs and thieves are like that.



Sep 01, 2016 at 01:26 PM
nolaguy
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Newspaper uses images without permission


glort wrote:
I'd also be giving the matter to the people that collect these sort of things even If I got nothing out of it.


All

day

long




Sep 01, 2016 at 01:33 PM
nolaguy
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Newspaper uses images without permission


I've been a little strong in my comments herein. Here's the funny part. As a photographer, I don't entirely mind when I'm mildly violated this way. I tend to shrug a lot.

My zeal for the topic comes from the fact that I've declined or decided against a number of "publishing" business opportunities over the years because I knew I/we could not afford proper, legally-obtained content.

I empathize, JM. I just chose not to do it.


By the way, I'm a terrible person in many other regards. I'm more babbling than judging.




Sep 01, 2016 at 01:39 PM
JMDobson
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Newspaper uses images without permission


nolaguy wrote:
My zeal for the topic comes from the fact that I've declined or decided against a number of "publishing" business opportunities over the years because I knew I/we could not afford proper, legally-obtained content.

I empathize, JM. I just chose not to do it..



I get it man, and as a photographer, I'm with you. If I wasn't a staffer, I'd be fighting to get paid for every one of my photos used in places. I just wanted to be a voice here that might show some of the reasoning from the paper's side. I don't like that the place I work for operates this way, but I hoped that my previous statement would let people know what a bind that we (poor chap placing the photo on the page) are in.




Sep 01, 2016 at 04:22 PM
nolaguy
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Newspaper uses images without permission


JMDobson wrote:
I get it man...


Me too. Sincerely. In so many ways that has to be a very difficult position to be in - if for no other reason, deadlines. Doesn't change the truth, but I do empathize. And like I said, as a camera guy most of the time I just shrug. I just keep a small number of soapboxes around in case I ever need the exercise. Today I pulled one out.



Thanks for your steady reply, James. I hope we're good.


Regards,

Chuck



Sep 01, 2016 at 04:51 PM
glort
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Newspaper uses images without permission


nolaguy wrote:
I've been a little strong in my comments herein.


And honest and perceptive and factual and raised good points.
Nothing to apologise for. You made a lot of sense and applied a lot of logic.
If the outcome of that is less than glowing, then that's a problem caused by the situation not your comments...... Which were all spot on as usual.




Sep 01, 2016 at 05:34 PM
glort
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Newspaper uses images without permission


JMDobson wrote:
I just wanted to be a voice here that might show some of the reasoning from the paper's side.


I think you did that quite well and proved what most of us already knew. They don't give a rats arse about anyone but themselves.
I think most shooters who read boards and see the prevalence of this sort of thing get that already.

I'd like to hear the answer to chucks question: You don't have the Authority to pay but do you have the authority to publish without permission if you can't ascertain the owner of the pic?


I don't like that the place I work for operates this way, but I hoped that my previous statement would let people know what a bind that we (poor chap placing the photo on the page) are in.



Sorry, I'm not the forgiving and understanding type. I'm also not the high horse moralistic type but there are some places I draw the line and the foremost of those is where I stand on principals and beliefs I hold dear.

The "Poor chap" placing the ad and knowingly doing the wrong thing is no better than the owners of the paper. They are putting their own interests first over doing the right thing.

Yes, they are just the employee and doing what they are told but please don't try to tell me they are hard done by. If they truly had a problem with the issue, they wouldn't publish any picture they couldn't verify the owner of and get permission for.
IF that meant walking away from the Job, wouldn't be anything I haven't done for things I truly had an issue with nor any different to many others that hold their sense of right and wrong in high priority.

I'll bet my backside that these organisations wouldn't put a bit of music on their website without proper permission knowing the record company had the financial and legal clout to get all the monetary compensation they could.
The fact they are willing and repeatedly do screw over the little guy is the real tell in this hand of poker.

The " Poor Chap" has the the ability to send/ authorise a pic for publication or not. ANY they can't get proper permission for and run regardless is on THEIR head more than anyone else.
They have the choice to run or reject it and given that is their job, I'd say the majority of the time they could do that with no pressure from above or the superiors even knowing the non authorised pic existed in the first place.


We can all make a choice, end of story.



Sep 01, 2016 at 06:01 PM
gschlact
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Newspaper uses images without permission


I have done a ton of reading on Copyright. You asked for our opinions....
I am not sticking up for what the Paper did...
But, it is my understanding that under Copyright Fair Use, which includes any commentary / journalism /criticism or parody usage; the copyrighted material may be used without permission / licensing, or remuneration. It would be fair to assume a newspaper would claim journalistic commentary use. I am unsure whether there is any Attribution requirement to identify the copyright holder.

Copyright was created as a process to protect the Ip Owners, and help them monetize their creations. However, it was also created to ensure Fair Use for the good of the public and public 'conversation' based on its fair use.

So, yes it suuucks if was taken, but I don't see it as a copyright violation.

Google- fair use. There is lots of info out there.
Pretty short description: http://fairuse.stanford.edu/overview/fair-use/what-is-fair-use/
Also good- http://www.cjr.org/cloud_control/ona_copyright.php
Plenty more.

The paper used it for commentary / journalism, for the benefit of the local public, commentating on the local 'superstar', with limited run time duration.

I hope this help, but understand the disappointment.

Guy
gschlact



Sep 01, 2016 at 09:55 PM
nolaguy
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Newspaper uses images without permission


gschlact wrote:
I have done a ton of reading on Copyright. You asked for our opinions....
I am not sticking up for what the Paper did...
But, it is my understanding that under Copyright Fair Use, which includes any commentary / journalism /criticism or parody usage; the copyrighted material may be used without permission / licensing, or remuneration. It would be fair to assume a newspaper would claim journalistic commentary use. I am unsure whether there is any Attribution requirement to identify the copyright holder.

Copyright was created as a process to protect the Ip Owners, and help them monetize their creations.
...Show more

Guy,

Excellent call out and I should have thought to offer it. In general I think the responses herein (mine included) assumed copyright-protected circumstances in the OP's question and ensuing discussion but that's not always the case and frankly, for me that's a relief. No one likes being bent over or others unfairly profiting from our legitimate property (and/or diffusing the value of said property) without so much as a thank you but to have my work used in a legal fashion (with or without my permission) for the greater good is perfectly fine with me. Rewarding, even.

The laws have careful provisions for fair use and I'm all for it.

Again, good call out. Thanks for taking the time.

Chuck



Sep 02, 2016 at 12:42 AM
JMDobson
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · Newspaper uses images without permission


glort wrote:
I'd like to hear the answer to chucks question: You don't have the Authority to pay but do you have the authority to publish without permission if you can't ascertain the owner of the pic?



I believe you have misunderstood me, and that's probably because of my poor communication here. If I know that what is sent to be by, in this case, the player, was not his, and I couldn't find the photographer, I would not run the photo. Period. What I was trying to explain before was that although they don't give me a budget to buy photos, I also do not knowingly steal photographer's work.

If we couldn't use the supplied shot, we would call the school's athletic department and ask if there is a photo of him that they would allow us to use that they created. If they don't have any, I would call around the friends and family of this guy and see if anyone took a photo of him playing.

I hope this helps clear things up a bit. I never knowingly would allow copyrighted content in the paper I work for, but I recognize not all papers are the same. If a student supplies a photo and lies about where they got it, could you blame me for not running it? If I get an email from a photog saying that I wasn't allowed to run the photo I would apologize, and offer to take it down from all digital publication, since I cannot remove it from printed media, I would offer to make a statement in the next paper giving credit and explaining what happened.

Small towns like mine still run on people's word. If I call them up and they say it's fine to run, that's the end of it, because we work with each other almost every day on some story.

I understand why there is a lot of anger being shown about this topic, but I am surprised that so much of it has been aimed at me. I always think both sides of a discussion should be brought up, even when it seems one-sided.

TLDR; I try my best not to steal work. If it happens on accident best I can do is remove from digital or offer a credit byline.



Sep 02, 2016 at 07:42 AM
nolaguy
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · Newspaper uses images without permission


JMDobson wrote:
I understand why there is a lot of anger being shown about this topic, but I am surprised that so much of it has been aimed at me. I always think both sides of a discussion should be brought up, even when it seems one-sided.


James,

Thanks again for the PM dialogue. As discussed, for my part at least it's not anger directed at you, your comments simply provided interesting bullet points to reflect on the concept and issues in general. For me it was more debate with no huge personal stake in the outcome - but certainly a concern over what has become seemingly nonchalant practices in some circles. I know you're not loving when efforts to do the right thing fall short.

A worthwhile discussion, probably... hopefully.

C



Sep 02, 2016 at 09:20 AM
glort
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · Newspaper uses images without permission


JMDobson wrote:
I understand why there is a lot of anger being shown about this topic, but I am surprised that so much of it has been aimed at me.


From my own POV, exactly the reason you stated, You did not put your position clearly.
I apologise if my comments were mis directed but I would have stood by them had you not better clarified your position. Now you have, the situation can be seen as different to first understood.

If you do not run photos you can't get permission for then you have my respect and appreciation and that would go for every other shooter out there.
Likewise if you run a picture you were told was OK and it turns out different, then I do not think that is your fault.

I have a problem with conscious theft and disregard for other peoples property but it seems more clear now that you try hard to do the opposite and that is to be commended.


As for the copyright issue, I understand different laws apply in different jurisdictions but overall I think there are a couple of tells......

The publications are trying to get permission to use pics. If they didn't need to you can bet your backside they wouldn't be paying anyone to bother with it.
In the case the OP is discussing, I would suggest if they didn't need permission, they would have just said so rather than make up excuses and lies.

Also as there has been payments of compensation for pictures being run without approval documented in other threads I have seen, I would suggest that in some areas at least this would give creed to permission being needed.

I'm sure this is another legal minefield with endless variations and arguments but over all I would tend to believe that in more places than not, the fair use thing would not apply.

Best to see what the actual and factual laws and situation in each persons local area is.

A few years ago, a large Telco here ran an ad which was blocks of peoples faces. It was revealed they were all taken from social media profiles and used without permission. This made social media and the mainstream news headlines and some of the people featured in the ads were traced, contacted and not at all happy.

As a result of the outcry for action against the company, it was revealed that the gubbermint agencys here were powerless to do anything. All the pictures had been lifted from the profiles of overseas residents and as such, the gubbermint had no jurisdiction.

If anything, the premeditated underhandedness of the the company only soiled their reputation further and the billboards and other mediums were all gone in weeks.

They clearly knew what they were doing and purposefully flouted the law.
It's not uncommon now and companies are ding this more and more knowing that in the rare chance they do get caught and made to pay, on average they will be way ahead on doing the right thing.

Morals and respect has long gone in this world especially at a corporate level.



Sep 02, 2016 at 11:01 AM
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