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Archive 2016 · Remind me again how I can get burned??

  
 
cohenfive
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Remind me again how I can get burned??


So I posted on the buy/sell board that I'm looking for a lens, and I'm in touch with one regular seller here, and then I got a pm from a new member on fm. Just joined, first message was likely to me. He has the lens, or at least he sent me pics of the lens that look perfect. He's asking a very low price for the lens, clearly below market price. I've asked him to send me a picture with a piece of paper with the date on it and the s/n of the lens visible so I can see the s/n of the actual lens either on the lens or the nikon yellow warranty paperwork.

So while I'm always tempted on stuff like this and have bought a couple of things below market on cl transactions, it has never happened here since there is so much price discovery on the site. But, if he gets me that picture so I can confirm he really has the lens, and if I pay via paypal regular payment with buyer protection, is there any way I can still get scammed?? I know I should probably run away, but I'm tempted to play this one out to see what happens.



Aug 29, 2016 at 08:04 PM
Fred Amico
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Remind me again how I can get burned??


Run, don't walk, far, far away! To me, not worth the hassle,even with PP buyer protection.


Aug 29, 2016 at 10:16 PM
nolaguy
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Remind me again how I can get burned??


A) Nah, it'll be fine. With 12 years here, 4000 posts and 100 transactions, you've got this. Go for it.

B) WTF are you thinking?




Please select the answer you prefer. If A, let us know how it goes. If B, high five.



Aug 29, 2016 at 11:06 PM
cohenfive
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Remind me again how I can get burned??


I'm sure there is something wrong (well pretty sure), I'm just stumped as to what it is and how I can get burned. The curiosity is killing me trying to figure out how I can get scammed as the buyer using paypal...but life's short, it probably isn't worth the hassle. I asked him for the 'live' picture of the lens with date and s/n, don't expect to see it. If I hadn't been able to get a couple of really killer deals before I wouldn't even bother going this far...but every once in a blue moon a below market deal does show up. I've been lucky to get a few!


Aug 30, 2016 at 12:21 AM
mitesh
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Remind me again how I can get burned??



cohenfive wrote:
...every once in a blue moon a below market deal does show up. I've been lucky to get a few!


Quit while you're ahead.

You know this one has all the warning signs, so don't tempt fate by ignoring them. You may be feeling curious as to how this could be a scam, but at the most basic level, any scammer is really appealing to a sense of greed. Many of us have had the same experience as you're describing — I know I have. I would rather do a web search of scams to try to satisfy my curiosity and figure out what this guy's angle is than be a guinea pig.

If you get a reply — picture or no picture — I suggest you delete it without further thought.



Aug 30, 2016 at 04:27 AM
nolaguy
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Remind me again how I can get burned??


cohenfive wrote:
I'm sure there is something wrong (well pretty sure), I'm just stumped as to what it is and how I can get burned. The curiosity is killing me trying to figure out how I can get scammed as the buyer using paypal...but life's short, it probably isn't worth the hassle. I asked him for the 'live' picture of the lens with date and s/n, don't expect to see it. If I hadn't been able to get a couple of really killer deals before I wouldn't even bother going this far...but every once in a blue moon a below market deal
...Show more

Actually, and while I was playfully sarcastic in my previous post, I mean this in all sincerity - if you can afford the gamble and the pursuit of the bargain really appeals to you - go for it and enjoy. Whatever entertains you buddy. I didn't consider that point of view initially but it's legitimate. We all have our stuff that's maybe not so prudent but we simply have fun with it even knowing it could result in a net loss - or at least hassle.

As to how you could get burned - the time consumed if things don't go well; any problems with PayPal backing you in the event of dispute - but it's probably more likely PayPal would eat it if the Seller takes "your" money and closes their PP account or is running an even more sophisticated scam that outsmarts the PP safeguards - unlikely but I suppose possible.

As long as it's not a PP gift, I'm guessing you're probably covered other than your wasted time. But again, if you're having fun with it, enjoy.

C



Aug 30, 2016 at 07:10 AM
mitesh
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Remind me again how I can get burned??



nolaguy wrote:
Actually, and while I was playfully sarcastic in my previous post, I mean this in all sincerity - if you can afford the gamble and the pursuit of the bargain really appeals to you - go for it and enjoy. Whatever entertains you buddy. I didn't consider that point of view initially but it's legitimate. We all have our stuff that's maybe not so prudent but we simply have fun with it even knowing it could result in a net loss - or at least hassle.

As to how you could get burned - the time consumed if things don't go
...Show more

What if the seller is peddling stolen goods? Let's say you proceed with buying the lens thinking you have buyer protection and you've scored what you consider to be a killer deal. PayPal won't protect you from any consequences that arise out of owning stolen property.

If I've done my homework correctly, it seems like we are talking about the Nikon 70-200/4 VR lens which sells around here for about $800-$1000 used. What's this guy offering to sell at? $600, $700? I personally wouldn't consider saving $100 or $200 to be worth taking this risk. If the seller is asking for less than $600, then I would seriously doubt the legitimacy of the seller and item.



Aug 30, 2016 at 07:28 AM
anthonysemone
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Remind me again how I can get burned??


OP, how about this: seller "takes your money and runs." He has signed up here using a spoofed email; lies about place of residence, especially when creating his PP account. He has a "throwaway" bank account, not listed on PP, into which when your funds clear, he immediately transfers your money. He of course has delayed sending the item until all this $ transfer happens; erronesously (sic) is off by one digit on your zip code, etc., etc. and then never sends the item because he ripped off the pics and is astute enough w/ Photoshop that he places a the requisite information along with those ripped off pics, i.e., he never had it in the first place. Some of the above are examples of what scammers have done here on FM. However, if as Nolaguy has said, "you just wanna have fun," well, then go for it.


Aug 30, 2016 at 08:30 AM
Danpbphoto
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Remind me again how I can get burned??


cohenfive wrote:
I'm sure there is something wrong (well pretty sure), I'm just stumped as to what it is and how I can get burned. The curiosity is killing me trying to figure out how I can get scammed!


You have answered your question in your first sentence. Curosity killed the cat.....
Ask person to send/sell 1st..when you receive..you will send money...or ask him/you to create an "escrow" account to hold money until ok is given. I will be that impartial holder!
Dan



Aug 30, 2016 at 09:09 AM
cohenfive
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Remind me again how I can get burned??


Thanks gang. Yes, it is for a nikon 70-200vr f4 that I'm looking to buy (I think for the third time!). It may all be moot since he hasn't gotten me the picture of paper with the date, lens s/n and lens so I guess he ran. Assuming I don't hear from him soon I'm going to report him to the FM police.

So I guess I'm going back to finding real sellers..



Aug 30, 2016 at 09:48 AM
bluloo
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Remind me again how I can get burned??


Others already covered it well, but here's my $0.02:

It isn't tough to set up a bogus online identity/account - whether PP or a giant like Amazon, unfortunately.

Brief tale of woe:

I recently bought a 2.5k camera via Amazon's marketplace from a 3rd party seller. What could go wrong?

What I received, after tracking down my package at the PO, was an envelope with a blank thank you card inside.

Fake return address on the envelope, and the scammer scammed four others via Amazon, in the same week. All account and personal info was, apparently fraudulent.

Took two frustrating weeks to get a refund from Amazon.
Moving forward, unless they're a long-established seller with solid feedback, I avoid 3rd party stuff.

PP is far too easy to scam, via "guest accounts", and the potential profits from many forms of e-commerce still trump the added hoops from security checks that might put some potential sellers off.

These old adages still very much apply - "If it's too good to be true..." and "Buyer beware".

Even if this seller replies with your requested info, I'd avoid them. It has all the hallmarks of fraud.




Aug 30, 2016 at 10:04 AM
cohenfive
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Remind me again how I can get burned??


I hear you, needed to be talked off the ledge, but I think I scared him off anyway by requiring the live picture with s/n, which as a scammer he'd be hard pressed to come up with. Oh well, guess I have to pay the market price for the lens!

Thanks all.



Aug 30, 2016 at 10:09 AM
DanBrown
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Remind me again how I can get burned??


Too Good to Be True?

I didn't originate these principles, but I think they offer good advice:

1) Trust nothing. If It's Too Good To Be True...It's not True.
You can't go wrong with this approach. And if you are wrong...well you have practiced a principle that will serve you well the next time ( and there will be a next time).

2) Take your time..... Guaranteed there is going to be a sense of urgency on the deal. You name it, they will try everything they can to pressure you into it. Or, you will put that false sense of urgency on yourself by not wanting to lose the deal. It is very tough to say ... >>>Slow Down<<<,
...Show more



Aug 30, 2016 at 02:01 PM
cohenfive
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Remind me again how I can get burned??


I already scared him off with the picture request, so I've moved on to 'real' sellers here on fm to actually get something done. May already have a deal locked up on the lens. As for the 'scammer', I reported the activity into Fred to take care of as he sees fit.


Aug 30, 2016 at 02:08 PM
K6AZ
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Remind me again how I can get burned??


When I post a WTB here I will only buy from established members with feedback and who have sell and upload on. WTB posts are the biggest targets of scammers and have been since the days of film (mid to late '90s this was going on with F4 and F5 bodies on usenet).


Aug 30, 2016 at 09:48 PM
PV Hiker
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Remind me again how I can get burned??


It is not worth your time and money involved to deal with a deal gone bad! Not to mention the stress and what other fun projects you could be doing instead. You gave this person a chance and they knew you were pressing them and they moved on to a easier target. Thanks for reminding us to be careful.


Aug 31, 2016 at 10:00 AM
CGrindahl
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Remind me again how I can get burned??


cohenfive wrote:
I'm sure there is something wrong (well pretty sure), I'm just stumped as to what it is and how I can get burned. The curiosity is killing me trying to figure out how I can get scammed as the buyer using paypal...but life's short, it probably isn't worth the hassle. I asked him for the 'live' picture of the lens with date and s/n, don't expect to see it. If I hadn't been able to get a couple of really killer deals before I wouldn't even bother going this far...but every once in a blue moon a below market deal
...Show more

There is a foolproof method for NOT getting scammed. Since you are the one with the documented evidence of trustworthiness, you can simply ask the seller to send the lens with a promise that you will pay once it has arrived and you've confirmed there is nothing wrong with the item. Yes, the conveys the risk to seller but why not? Hope that helps...




Aug 31, 2016 at 10:58 AM
cohenfive
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · Remind me again how I can get burned??


This all helps. If you read my comments, it's not that I was likely to go through with it, but was trying to figure out how I could get hurt...and the comments were helpful in figuring this out. I've already gone a different direction and as said, gave the guy up to Fred for him to deal with. Thanks again!


Aug 31, 2016 at 11:02 AM
TMaG82
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · Remind me again how I can get burned??


Yeah, WTB threads will get a ton of scam attempts. Even had them send me a picture of a driver's license even without me asking for it to try and 'prove' that they were a legit person.


Aug 31, 2016 at 01:55 PM
jancohen
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · Remind me again how I can get burned??


In the next episode of the Buylight Zone, William Shatner examines how CohenFive gets burned making a purchase using Paypal's Buyer's Protection Plan, after Paypal learns of the obviously risky nature of the purchase via this thread on FM Forums.

Kinda makes you wonder if companies like Paypal actually pay someone to search Google 40 hours a week for this kind of stuff.



Aug 31, 2016 at 04:07 PM
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