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Archive 2016 · Landscape photography or Tourist photography?

  
 
lionking
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Landscape photography or Tourist photography?


Out of curiosity, some people really lost their way, i assume they dont know the difference?
I have nothing against those, but considering all the talent and minds we have here, i was thinking maybe it would be wiser and more appropriate to create a place for people to share their mid day snaps with their families and other friends in the frame? (i would say there a lot of already established places) but if they must use FM,
Would it be a better use of resources.
Just leave Landscape photographer section for those who make an effort? At least a small one, like waking early or catching a sunset, or going for the nigh, trying to improve...

Any thoughts?






Aug 29, 2016 at 09:50 AM
camboman
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Landscape photography or Tourist photography?


Let's ban everyone who doesn't add at least +30 saturation to the reds and greens. I mean, if they can't make the effort ...

This is a joke thread, right? You don't really want to remove beginners and amateurs from posting here do you? This is also a place for newer photographers seeking feedback and encouragement, surely we can give them that in a positive atmosphere.




Aug 29, 2016 at 10:57 AM
ckcarr
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Landscape photography or Tourist photography?


camboman wrote:
Let's ban everyone who doesn't add at least +30 saturation to the reds and greens. I mean, if they can't make the effort ...

This is a joke thread, right? You don't really want to remove beginners and amateurs from posting here do you? This is also a place for newer photographers seeking feedback and encouragement, surely we can give them that in a positive atmosphere.



Seems you are trying to shut down a legitimate discussion? He didn't say one thing that you are implying. You just put a bunch of words into his mouth. Seems the joke was your flippant response.

I personally think Andre has a good point. Often, this board becomes the "catch all" where people don't know where or what to post. There are people that are legitimately trying to study and learn landscape photography (which it sounds like Andre is one), and others that just post any old picture. Some don't even know other boards exist, or that there are different genres of photography.




Aug 29, 2016 at 11:39 AM
kevindar
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Landscape photography or Tourist photography?


lets look at practicality. How do you place requirements on the landscape board?
It has to be only shot during the golden hour light or night time? obviously way too restrictive. a lot of wonderful images are taking at other times, and then there are many stream and water fall pictures, etc.

You have to put real effort in to it? I have taken many pictures, with lots of effort, which I would qualify as crap.

It has to be good?
It has to not include you or your family in it? I have seen a few with people that I have loved.
Playing a bit of devil's advocate, but it is hard to restrict with good guidlines.

I also think you may get tired of looking at sunrise and sunset pictures all day. I am more intrigued these days by those images that defy the "Formula".



Aug 29, 2016 at 11:57 AM
JohnC
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Landscape photography or Tourist photography?


On the other hand I have seen remarkable images presented here where the photographers clearly left the marked trail and tramped around to get that unique angle. What gives a talented photographer any more right than the average selfie taking tourist to trample off trail? There are now way more people who have the time and wherewithal who want to visit these iconic locations and I applaud those who are willing to go to remote locations and willing to be there when the light is special. But I don't appreciate those who scoff at the rules about where you can or cannot hike because once you post that shot everybody that visits that place will want to do the same thing.



Aug 29, 2016 at 12:21 PM
przero
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Landscape photography or Tourist photography?


What I would really like to see is that every thread have a photograph in it.....


Aug 29, 2016 at 01:54 PM
dswiger
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Landscape photography or Tourist photography?


I've found myself coming down on both sides of this. I've benefited & enjoyed the critique of my work & others. I've also seen some "newbie" stuff that while not great, the person seemed interested in learning. Hard to fault that.

But I think we've entered a new era where the cell phone AND the cheap DSLR are ubiquitous and everybody feels compelled or inspired to snap away and post with their new toy. We are just another place to post, along with FB. The selfie thing is part of the cultural shift, maybe even a bit narcissistic..

I think we can continue to offer polite & constructive critique and "try" to channel them to more suitable venues, but I don't think tighter rules would work. Jim's critiques are about the best you can do, balancing structure, standards and politeness.

I don't know, perhaps a beginner's forum.....

Dan



Aug 29, 2016 at 01:55 PM
camboman
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Landscape photography or Tourist photography?


ckcarr - I'm not implying anything, and I put no words into his mouth. I am asking if he is serious. I am hoping he's joking. I guess you don't get smilies, I'm not surprised at that.


Kevindar, I agree, the most interesting images on this forum (to me at least) are the ones that break from the mold and show us something different (places and techniques). These make me think of new possibilities for my own work.







Aug 29, 2016 at 03:41 PM
lionking
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Landscape photography or Tourist photography?


Hypocrisy and big mouth may help in some cases, look how far Trump got with he's speeches.

But realistically speaking, why dont you guys scroll back few pages and look over topics with no comments or 1-2 comments, ding ding ding, i cant see any of you commenting about your joy and happiness about the great new angle, the new creative approach you discovered and how proud and better it made you?

I think i've made my point, and now its clear...



Aug 29, 2016 at 04:09 PM
claudefiddler
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Landscape photography or Tourist photography?


This is pretty interesting. I come from large format, film, tripods, no internet, good luck getting into a gallery, book publishers, scans, what are those, a computer, what's THAT!, build a darkroom, print color, you're kidding!, it costs five dollars to take a picture.

Talk about effort. And that does not include study and really thinking about making a picture and not a capture of a place. I see lots of photos on the forum. I don't see lots of pictures. And boy is that a subjective statement.

I don't know if this is possible but I think that the comments if the bend is to be toward a more "artistic" endeavor need to guide the photographer if possible. This gets tough with so many submissions and to cover the ground to make a meaningful critique. A critique that goes well beyond 'that's awesome" or "open up the shadows". We don't know what the experience of the photographer is, how educated they are about the art form, where they intend to go with their pictures. If the purpose is to take the people out of the photos then start a spot for figures in the landscape. But then is a climber on the west ridge of Mount Everest a people, action, or landscape picture.

We used to have these discussions but back then it was six people having cocktails and showing prints.



Aug 29, 2016 at 04:22 PM
DaleBerlin
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Landscape photography or Tourist photography?


That reminds me, it's martini time, but I will throw in my 2 cents worth. To me, a landscape photograph has no people, no buildings, no sign of people other than global warming.


Aug 29, 2016 at 04:41 PM
OregonSun
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Landscape photography or Tourist photography?


Tourist photos? You mean like from locations that you can drive right up to that have hordes of people at them all the time? You'd have to ban a sizeable number of the shots on here .

Seriously, do we really want to be an exclusive club with strict(er) rules for participation? I for one would prefer to err on the side of inclusion. The moderators seem to be doing fine steering the direction of the forum.

Heron



Aug 29, 2016 at 06:58 PM
Monika C
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Landscape photography or Tourist photography?


OK, I admit, I just joined, but I've lurked occasionally over the years. Since joining, I've been struck by the numbers of vacation posts. How about a forum dedicated to such? Then people can post their P&S, phone, etc shots there, get C&C from those who are interested in helping them.


Aug 29, 2016 at 07:42 PM
JimFox
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Landscape photography or Tourist photography?


Monika C wrote:
OK, I admit, I just joined, but I've lurked occasionally over the years. Since joining, I've been struck by the numbers of vacation posts. How about a forum dedicated to such? Then people can post their P&S, phone, etc shots there, get C&C from those who are interested in helping them.


Hi Monika,

Thanks for joining in this conversation, and I think you simplified it as much as possible.


Now my 2 or 3 cents to everyone else:

This idea that Andrey brought up is nothing new. Many of us have had this discussion many times over the years.

The issue that makes it hard as brought up by some is how and where you draw the line?

Like others, I prefer my landscapes to not have people or buildings in them. Heck, when my kids were young I had gotten complaints that I never took photos of my kids in the outdoors, so I finally started to make sure I got one or two shots with them standing on a rock or a log, etc.... So that's my bent. But clearly there are others who do like people in their landscape shots. Now often that can make those shots to be more Adventure or Sports photography, maybe even simply People Photography. But to make forums for every sub grouping of Landscapes probably isn't the answer, as they wouldn't end up getting much traffic overall, and would probably die from not enough use. So we will see photos posted in here included objects that wouldn't fit my more narrow view, but I (we) recognize that for others, they are of interest, and they enjoy them. Hence the threads do stay in the forum and don't get moved.

And how serious someone is about their landscape photography can be hard to judge, though at times it's very obvious the person was just snapping snapshots on their P&S through a bus window.

So the frustration for those who take their landscape photography serious, and make efforts to learn and to grow whether by teaching themselves through books or online, or perhaps taking classes at a local college, is to then see the forum watered down by those who are not putting any effort into their landscape shots, with no care or concern for some of the simple things like exposure, focus or composition. These people simply were outdoors and grabbed some photos, no different then if they had been in Disneyland and grabbed some snaps of the family or the rides.

In the realm of todays Social Media, whether it be FaceBook or Instagram, many seem to just simply use posting photos as a means of social interaction. So they come to the Landscape forum here and post their photos with no intention of learning or growing in their photography, but simply it's another means of social interaction for them.

Now bear in mind, I am not trying to pigeon hole anyone, and in conversations like these, many generalizations have to be made in order to have a reply no turn into a 20,000 word thesis.

Suffice to say, the Landscape Forum doesn't exist in the same likeness of social interaction as FB or IG. The point of the forum is for people who are interested in Landscape Photography to post their photos to share and also to learn and to grow. If someone simply wants a place to post a snapshot, then it should be on FB or IG with their friends who then their snapshots will mean something to.

Now also, in terms of people who do post here who are desiring to learn and to grow. Obviously they will come in all forms and shapes and sizes in terms of their experience and expertise in photography. So even someone who is new, and posted some shots that were overexposed, or perhaps the composition included elements that made it weaker, but if they are here with the intent to grow, they will listen, and it will be obvious by their responses that they do desire to learn more, and that the photos they posted were not just some snaps from a vacation that they thought the world would be interested in seeing.

So perhaps a Vacation Snapshot Forum is the answer? I am not totally sure.

Hopefully everyone realizes we are not trying to create some elitist club. Everyone has a right to take photos of whatever they want, the question as you look at the 20 or so forums we have here on FM, is to post those photos in the proper forum.

Again, lot's of gray areas in this, but it's healthy to have a discussion once in a while. But it's important not to call people names, or insult others. There are many sides to this coin, and where we can grow is in trying to see someone else's position or viewpoint. And Andrey brought up a valid point. One that might strike a nerve with some, as it can be easy to get feelings hurt when someone says that your work, your photography may be better suited to be posted somewhere else.

I don't believe the intent is to create some narrow view of what is a Landscape Photograph, but the idea is to have the Landscape Forum have people posting in it who are serious about Landscape photography (obviously varying degrees of seriousness exist). The best way to define if someone is serious, is simply, do they want to learn and get better with their landscape photography? Or is this simply a social interaction for them, and nothing more.

I better stop before I get to 20,000 words.

Hopefully I haven't offended anyone.

Jim



Aug 29, 2016 at 08:21 PM
Timmeh
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Landscape photography or Tourist photography?


It’s true that cream doesn’t already always rise to the top. Some photos get more comments than others, and it doesn’t always have much to do with artistic merit. Making a group exclusive rarely improves said group. There are some people who want to learn, those who are already have an air of expertise, and those who just post for whatever reason. I tend to give newcomers the benefit of the doubt, and will often try to give constructive feedback since I was once in their position. As a teacher I've found that most people want to learn, though I must admit some posts don't merit spending my free time. I’ve been shooting landscape photography as my central hobby that takes up most of my free time for about six years, and I think I’ve grown a lot while on this forum and because of this forum. Some people feel comfortable jumping right in to the forum either because they have experience or have a forward personality. Others lurk for months or years and figure out the tone of the forum before they say anything (that’s what I did). It's up to you to determine what isn't worth your time, and Jim and Fred are pretty good at banning serial abusers of time.

I have a pretty good idea what most of the regular posters on this forum are like. I feel comfortable with some users and I avoid others. I recently posted on a thread, said what I felt, and that person’s reply was that I was reading too far into their photo. That fundamentally doesn’t mesh with my own feelings about landscape photography as a means of visual storytelling. If I’m reading deeper than a person intended their photo to be, then I'm not going to waste my time in the future.

There are already good restrictions in place to limit overexposure (1 post per day, posts don’t bump if you’re responding to yourself, etc.) All you have to do is vote with your comments. When perusing the Landscape Board I usually click on links that have the fewest comments first. I personally find it frustrating when a post I make gets few or no comments, but lack of comments is a comment in and of itself. I try to draw attention to posts I feel deserve it. I don’t say a photo is simply fantastic unless it I have a visceral reaction to it. There tends to be enough pats on the back. I usually try to write something constructive, and if a user doesn’t appreciate my comment, I’m unlikely to comment on their future work.

Tim



Aug 29, 2016 at 08:21 PM
kevindar
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Landscape photography or Tourist photography?


lionking wrote:
Hypocrisy and big mouth may help in some cases, look how far Trump got with he's speeches.

But realistically speaking, why dont you guys scroll back few pages and look over topics with no comments or 1-2 comments, ding ding ding, i cant see any of you commenting about your joy and happiness about the great new angle, the new creative approach you discovered and how proud and better it made you?

I think i've made my point, and now its clear...


Not all that is different and does not follow the Formula is good Lionking. No one is saying that.
On the Flip side, there are a lot of images that get a lot of comment, b/c of who has posted them (lets face it, there is a lot of that going on), and many of those images I dont care about.

If the images which are getting no comments are so b/c they show no effort or are terrible, then thats the negative feeback the posters receive to discourage them from posting those images.

Additionally the moderates pick some of the images they like to be the featured images on the page banner.

I suppose you could only allow paying members to post images. Or you can have mods delete or move posts of images they consider not worthy. Beyond that, I dont know how you can set up en forcible rules.



Aug 29, 2016 at 09:55 PM
RobCD
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Landscape photography or Tourist photography?


kevindar wrote:
I also think you may get tired of looking at sunrise and sunset pictures all day. I am more intrigued these days by those images that defy the "Formula".


I agree with you. It would be sad to see the forum find more ways to reduce the variety and creativity here. Don't get me wrong, there are plenty of amazing and technically great images where someone hiked 25 miles in extreme weather to get the shot and I love viewing many of those images but crazy as it may seem they can become monotonous in their own way. I'd rather maintain some variety even if some of the images are technically poor as long as they belong in some way in the landscape forum and I think the mods do a fine job of making those judgement calls.



Aug 29, 2016 at 10:07 PM
dbehrens
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · Landscape photography or Tourist photography?


I think the landscape forum does a pretty good job of managing what's posted. We find out quickly who is seeking advice and wants to learn as opposed to others that turn a blind ear to any constructive criticism.

If I think I have something to contribute and I believe the OP is really seeking advice, opinions and options then I try to take the time to comment. I also have no problem giving a simple great shot response if I think the OP should be encouraged.

It may be helpful if there were more button options other than just a "Like" response. Maybe a 1-10 rating. . . or I could definitely find use for an over processed button!

Dave



Aug 30, 2016 at 12:03 AM
mitchel674
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · Landscape photography or Tourist photography?


Not interested in what you see? Don't comment and move along to the next thread.

Once active photography web sites like FM are dying all over the internet. I've moderated one (Nikon Cafe) and been very active in another (dgrin). Both of these have almost no activity. This forum has certainly decreased in the number of photographic posts. Why would anyone want to exclude potential new members?

This site has a a clubby/unfriendly vibe already. We should be much more welcoming and open minded about photography.

As far as someone having the hubris to define a landscape photo, I think that's absurd. It can't have people in the photo? My best selling landscape photo has a person in it. I believe it anchors the photo and adds scale.

Why not be more sensible and ban photos of people shining headlights at the milky way?



Aug 30, 2016 at 07:00 AM
DaleBerlin
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · Landscape photography or Tourist photography?


mitchel674 wrote:
As far as someone having the hubris to define a landscape photo, I think that's absurd. It can't have people in the photo?


I said, "To me, a landscape photograph has no people, no buildings, no sign of people other than global warming."

Let me emphasize the important part of my post
TO ME
TO ME
TO ME
TO ME


"hubris" my butt, my statement is no different than saying I prefer coffee with no cream.



Aug 30, 2016 at 08:07 AM
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