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Zeiss 35mm 1.4 ZM Tests
  
 
j.liam
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p.44 #1 · p.44 #1 · Zeiss 35mm 1.4 ZM Tests


DavidBM wrote:
Yep before my 2.8/35 FE mysteriously acquired significant tilt, it outperformed my Loxia up until f7.2 and the Lox was only better in resolution terms f8-9. What made me keep the Lox was its performance against the light - the FE has dull sunstars, and also although it doesn't flare much, and doesn't have the dramatic loss of contrast some lenses have against the light, there was an overall slight dulling with the sun in the frame that the lox (and the ZM by all accounts) doesn't have. But gosh it is impressive wide open, with really fine bokeh.

And it's
...Show more

By tilt, you mean de-centering?



Mar 19, 2017 at 11:07 PM
DavidBM
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p.44 #2 · p.44 #2 · Zeiss 35mm 1.4 ZM Tests


j.liam wrote:
By tilt, you mean de-centering?


No; tilt is another equally common problem - it's where some component of the optical system is tilted so that one side is sharper than the other at a given focus position. Tilt is compatible with perfect centering of all the elements. Typical decentering tests will pick it up though: for example if both left corners are the same, but much worse than both right corners, one possibility is that there is tilt along the vertical axis. After my copy acquired tilt most of the left side was much worse when focused centrally. Tilt actually seems more common than decentering in many Sony lenses. But mine acquired it at some point; presumably some impact but I don't recall one....



Mar 20, 2017 at 02:07 AM
sebboh
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p.44 #3 · p.44 #3 · Zeiss 35mm 1.4 ZM Tests


Fred Miranda wrote:
I think you would be surprised that the FE 35/2.8 bokeh is actually pretty smooth. This lens got a bad rep for no reason.
Some call it clinical but I think it's due to the amazing resolution across the field wide open. (So not much fall-off from center)

Of course there will be less blur at f/2.8, but when comparing with the ZM at same aperture, bokeh is actually similar if not a little harsher at mid-distance for the ZM.


i would not rate any of these lenses except maybe the cv as having good bokeh. i'd say mediocre at best for the zm and FLE. i have no experience with the ZA 35/1.4, but from what i've seen i imagine it would look better in a scene like this as would the RX1. at f/2.8 i think the FE 35/2.8 would probably be pretty similar to these lenses with a bit more bright lining.



Mar 20, 2017 at 03:08 AM
Fred Miranda
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p.44 #4 · p.44 #4 · Zeiss 35mm 1.4 ZM Tests


sebboh wrote:
i would not rate any of these lenses except maybe the cv as having good bokeh. i'd say mediocre at best for the zm and FLE. i have no experience with the ZA 35/1.4, but from what i've seen i imagine it would look better in a scene like this as would the RX1. at f/2.8 i think the FE 35/2.8 would probably be pretty similar to these lenses with a bit more bright lining.


From the images I've seen from the 35/1.4 ZA, it has lovely bokeh, comparable to RX1.
The ZM high micro-contrast contaminates the OOF background rendering but I like it for some scenes.



Mar 20, 2017 at 03:26 AM
ecarlino
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p.44 #5 · p.44 #5 · Zeiss 35mm 1.4 ZM Tests


Fred Miranda wrote:
I think you would be surprised that the FE 35/2.8 bokeh is actually pretty smooth. This lens got a bad rep for no reason.
Some call it clinical but I think it's due to the amazing resolution across the field wide open. (So not much fall-off from center)

Of course there will be less blur at f/2.8, but when comparing with the ZM at same aperture, bokeh is actually similar if not a little harsher at mid-distance for the ZM.


Having owned the lens for over a year (it was my first FE lens) nothing would be surprise me about it and i can still remember scenes that would be so nervous, eg almost half the shots from a family vaca to the SanDiego area. When the background was smooth I loved that lens,



Mar 20, 2017 at 03:56 AM
sebboh
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p.44 #6 · p.44 #6 · Zeiss 35mm 1.4 ZM Tests


Fred Miranda wrote:
From the images I've seen from the 35/1.4 ZA, it has lovely bokeh, comparable to RX1.
The ZM high micro-contrast contaminates the OOF background rendering but I like it for some scenes.


agreed, i quite like it's rendering when there is a solid distance between subject and background, but much less so when i can see the transition oof or if there is anything just a little out of focus in the corners.

a less tough comparison scene (no tripod here though so positioning isn't perfect), zm vs cv:








Mar 20, 2017 at 07:14 AM
Fred Miranda
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p.44 #7 · p.44 #7 · Zeiss 35mm 1.4 ZM Tests


It could be a combination of straight aperture blades and high micro-contrast that causes the unpleasant transition zone in some scenes. Just something to keep in mind when composing our images.

The 35/1.4ZA and RX1 series have superb bokeh and it's hard to compare anything to them. The former is not a perfect lens though with high LoCA, onion ring pattern and softer corners. (Not to count size and QC)

Zeiss should release a Batis 35/2 based on the RX1 rendering. They would sell so many of these!



Mar 20, 2017 at 06:29 PM
Makten
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p.44 #8 · p.44 #8 · Zeiss 35mm 1.4 ZM Tests


Fred Miranda wrote:
Zeiss should release a Batis 35/2 based on the RX1 rendering.


I think that's impossible for a lens that isn't fixed to the camera. The RX1 Sonnar has a very unique design that features lens elements nearly touching the sensor. The Fuji X100 23/2 seems to be similar.

Also, the RX1 doesn't have a focal plane shutter. That makes it even harder to do something similar for the a7 cameras.



Mar 20, 2017 at 07:15 PM
Fred Miranda
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p.44 #9 · p.44 #9 · Zeiss 35mm 1.4 ZM Tests


Makten wrote:
I think that's impossible for a lens that isn't fixed to the camera. The RX1 Sonnar has a very unique design that features lens elements nearly touching the sensor. The Fuji X100 23/2 seems to be similar.

Also, the RX1 doesn't have a focal plane shutter. That makes it even harder to do something similar for the a7 cameras.


It would not be possible to use the same optical design for the reasons you mentioned but it's possible to have similar rendering just like what they accomplished with the 35/1.4 ZA.



Mar 20, 2017 at 07:31 PM
darbo
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p.44 #10 · p.44 #10 · Zeiss 35mm 1.4 ZM Tests


Fred Miranda wrote:
Zeiss should release a Batis 35/2 based on the RX1 rendering. They would sell so many of these!


Amen! Love the Batis formula of high optical performance in a lightweight AF package and would dearly love a Batis 35mm 1.8 or 2.

Regarding 35mm, I've become so exasperated by the unfortunate current native choices that I'm considering falling back on the superb (but massive) Canon 35L II. I want a 35mm that has very good wide-open performance with near subjects and excels at infinity. Haven't tried anything that's overall better (optically) than the Canon, which has quite good bokeh, brilliant sharpness, and minimized CA.

The Zeiss 35mm 1.4 ZM is an compelling consideration, but I just don't have the stomach for front filters and shimmed adapter hacks in order to eek out the full performance of the lens. Of course the lens doesn't need that to perform well above 5.6, but it would drive me crazy knowing that the image quality is degraded at faster apertures without the hacks.



Mar 20, 2017 at 07:56 PM
 

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DavidBM
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p.44 #11 · p.44 #11 · Zeiss 35mm 1.4 ZM Tests


Fred Miranda wrote:
It could be a combination of straight aperture blades and high micro-contrast that causes the unpleasant transition zone in some scenes. Just something to keep in mind when composing our images.

The 35/1.4ZA and RX1 series have superb bokeh and it's hard to compare anything to them. The former is not a perfect lens though with high LoCA, onion ring pattern and softer corners. (Not to count size and QC)

Zeiss should release a Batis 35/2 based on the RX1 rendering. They would sell so many of these!


I'm a fan of the 1.4/ZA for its delicious bokeh.
Yes onion rings in some circs, yes LoCA (though it's clean and predictable LoCA which means the manual LoCA tool in Lightroom does a good job getting rid of it, which is not true of all lenses.

But I wonder if soft corners is a QA issue? My copy passed with flying colours (to my surprise) corner sharpness tests when I got it (mirror aligned chart at 4m was what I was doing then, not infinity which I now do largely because it's easier, but I've yet to see a wide good at 4m but not infinity.

But given the QA dramas with this lens, I guess this may be rare (although Rishi at DPR, when he was comparing the Sigma and the ZA1.4, preferred the Sigma over the ZA because the Sigma was centrally sharper wide open, even though his ZA was better and even into the corners. I agree that the Sig is a touch contrastier wide and central, but prefer the ZA bokeh..)




Mar 20, 2017 at 08:07 PM
Makten
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p.44 #12 · p.44 #12 · Zeiss 35mm 1.4 ZM Tests


Fred Miranda wrote:
It would not be possible to use the same optical design for the reasons you mentioned but it's possible to have similar rendering just like what they accomplished with the 35/1.4 ZA.


True of course, but it would probably be a hefty lens then.



Mar 20, 2017 at 08:34 PM
robgo2
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p.44 #13 · p.44 #13 · Zeiss 35mm 1.4 ZM Tests


sebboh wrote:
agreed, i quite like it's rendering when there is a solid distance between subject and background, but much less so when i can see the transition oof or if there is anything just a little out of focus in the corners.

a less tough comparison scene (no tripod here though so positioning isn't perfect), zm vs cv:
http://c1.staticflickr.com/1/758/33333839431_b127f2dfc9_o.jpg


In Sebboh's comparison shots of the fire hydrant, other than shallower DOF in the image on the left, is there a reason why one might prefer one or the other? I'm trying to understand what people are seeing.

Rob



Mar 21, 2017 at 01:46 AM
sebboh
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p.44 #14 · p.44 #14 · Zeiss 35mm 1.4 ZM Tests


robgo2 wrote:
In Sebboh's comparison shots of the fire hydrant, other than shallower DOF in the image on the left, is there a reason why one might prefer one or the other? I'm trying to learn what people are seeing.

Rob


you can look at what ever you're interested in.

there's probably more information in the direct tripod based comparison i posted a few posts before that, which shows performance in very harsh conditions while the fire hydrant shot is taken in very soft light (it's actually raining as it is in most of my shots taken in the last 5 months).

what interests me more than distant background blur and amount of blur is what happens in the transition zone. this can be seen in the fire hydrant shots by following the moss/grass back from the bottom of the frame (where it's in focus) to the base of the tree and up the tree trunk. to me there seems to be a fair bit more business there on the left than on the right. you can also see differences in color between the two lenses (WB balance value is the same for both). the left has more yellow to the highlights and right leans a little bluer and seems to have brighter highlights.



Mar 21, 2017 at 04:35 AM
sebboh
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p.44 #15 · p.44 #15 · Zeiss 35mm 1.4 ZM Tests


Bespoked wrote:
Whatever lens is sed on the left seems to be significantly better, imo, than the optic used to create the image on the right.
More sharpness, more contrast, smoother bokeh (and more blur).

Assuming both shots were in perfect focus on the same point etc.


they are both in perfect focus on the same point, which is the lowest and largest fire hydrant spout. looking at them at 100% i don't see any differences in sharpness, but the one on the left definitely has more blur (particularly in the corners).




Mar 21, 2017 at 05:04 AM
Fred Miranda
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p.44 #16 · p.44 #16 · Zeiss 35mm 1.4 ZM Tests


sebboh wrote:
you can look at what ever you're interested in.

there's probably more information in the direct tripod based comparison i posted a few posts before that, which shows performance in very harsh conditions while the fire hydrant shot is taken in very soft light (it's actually raining as it is in most of my shots taken in the last 5 months).

what interests me more than distant background blur and amount of blur is what happens in the transition zone. this can be seen in the fire hydrant shots by following the moss/grass back from the bottom of the frame (where
...Show more

If you look at both images for a while and slightly cross eyes, right in the middle of the two, a third image will be created which is totally 3D! That's my favorite one!



Mar 21, 2017 at 05:16 AM
GMPhotography
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p.44 #17 · p.44 #17 · Zeiss 35mm 1.4 ZM Tests


Crap my eyes are stuck now. Lol


Mar 21, 2017 at 05:30 AM
sebboh
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p.44 #18 · p.44 #18 · Zeiss 35mm 1.4 ZM Tests


Fred Miranda wrote:
If you look at both images for a while and slightly cross eyes, right in the middle of the two, a third image will be created which is totally 3D! That's my favorite one!


most people need special glasses to see that one.



Mar 21, 2017 at 05:32 AM
BastianK
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p.44 #19 · p.44 #19 · Zeiss 35mm 1.4 ZM Tests


sebboh wrote:
you can look at what ever you're interested in.

there's probably more information in the direct tripod based comparison i posted a few posts before that, which shows performance in very harsh conditions while the fire hydrant shot is taken in very soft light (it's actually raining as it is in most of my shots taken in the last 5 months).

what interests me more than distant background blur and amount of blur is what happens in the transition zone. this can be seen in the fire hydrant shots by following the moss/grass back from the bottom of the frame (where
...Show more
It might have been worthwhile comparing the ZM @ f/1.8 (as you can't easily set f/1.7 unfortunately) vs. VM @ f/1.7.
To my experience the differences in the transition zone are much smaller then.



Mar 21, 2017 at 08:07 AM
nehemiahphoto
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p.44 #20 · p.44 #20 · Zeiss 35mm 1.4 ZM Tests


Anyone seen comparisons for rx1 and the FE 35 at WO till down a couple stops, and specially the transition zone?




Mar 21, 2017 at 08:51 AM
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