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Archive 2016 · Fast normal MF lens question

  
 
coase
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Fast normal MF lens question


Hello. i'm new to the mirrorless world and only acquired an A7 a couple months ago. But I've been obsessively buying old MF lenses to complement the FDs and AIs I already own from decades past and having a blast. I prefer to buy 12 decent old 50/55s over one perfect AF fast 50 for the same price.

However, now that I've started comparing lenses I want to ask a basic question: Since I mostly use normal lenses at their widest for portraits (bokeh) or in low light shooting, I'm not sure I see much value in corner to corner sharpness at f2 or f1.4. Either the depth of field is very thin or I don't want the corners to be sharp anyway or both. I can see how super sharpness at all apertures would matter for a wide or super wide when shooting landscapes in lower light conditions, but a 50? Or 90? I guess I don't see how ulitmate sharpness outside the center is worth spending big money on.

Perhaps a naive comment but hoping to learn.



Aug 11, 2016 at 05:37 AM
Jonas B
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Fast normal MF lens question


Hi,
...and welcome.

As you say; "portraits or in low light" - well, what if somebody uses their lens in low light but still want a sharp image? I know, it doesn't happen every day but every now and then.
What if the important detail isn't in the geometrical center of the image? That happens to me, often. I still want the interesting subject sharp.
We are all different, no?



Aug 11, 2016 at 05:56 AM
jcolwell
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Fast normal MF lens question


Welcome to FM.

coase wrote:
... Since I mostly use normal lenses at their widest for portraits (bokeh) or in low light shooting, I'm not sure I see much value in corner to corner sharpness at f2 or f1.4. ...

I guess I don't see how ulitmate sharpness outside the center is worth spending big money on..


I use different lenses for different subjects. For portraits at large apertures, I don't care how sharp the edges and corners are, in fact I hope they're smoothly out of focus. I generally use the Canon EF 50/1.2L for this (at 50mm). The best f/1.2 manual focus normal lens that I've used is the Olympus 50/1.2 OM. I also like the Contax 50/1.4 MM and Leica-R 50/2 E55.

When I'm shooting scenic images where I want sharp edges and corners, I use different lenses at smaller apertures, typically f/8 or f/11, and/or tilt-shift lenses. I generally use the Zeiss 50/2 ZE or Mamiya C 55/2.8 N on Mirex T-S adapter for this.

Edited on Aug 11, 2016 at 06:48 AM · View previous versions



Aug 11, 2016 at 06:43 AM
TheEmrys
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Fast normal MF lens question


Thhere are three to splurge on:
Minolta MC Rokkor 58/1.2 PG
Contax Zeiss 50/1.4
Leica/Leitz 50mm Summicron-R

3 very different looks, all look amazing for different reasons.



Aug 11, 2016 at 06:48 AM
justruss
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Fast normal MF lens question


Focal length is important-- at times primary. The difference between a portrait at 50mm, 85mm, and 135mm (not to mention 100-400mm even!) can be significant.

If you're looking at normals, a good copy of the FL 55mm f/1.2 is right up there with the Rokkor 58mm f/1.2, and has some overlap in look. In general, the Rokkor may have more character, but the Canon is sharper. Both, to me, have a sweet spot of around f/2 when it comes to bokeh (wider is a little harsher). I tend to want to stop down a little more though for the best quality portraits (and prefer a long FL).

Here are a few at or new w/o:

http://photos.russjuskalian.com/2016/07/16/11.JPG

http://photos.russjuskalian.com/2016/07/16/8.JPG

http://photos.russjuskalian.com/2016/07/16/9.JPG

http://photos.russjuskalian.com/2016/07/16/29.JPG



Aug 11, 2016 at 07:02 AM
coase
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Fast normal MF lens question


I've thought about getting the Canon 1.2 as I have a few different 50/55/58mm 1.4s which I like for different reasons. Tried an old friend's CZ 50/1.4 once and wasn't that impressed especially for the price difference relative to the Canon FD or Minolta 1.4s. Since I have the FD 50/1.4, MD 50/1.4, MD 58/1.4, and Mamiya SX 55/1.4 for a grand total that's less than the Zeiss 50/1.4 typically costs, only a 1.2 might tempt me for the bokeh. But as was noted, focal length matters a lot and I often get nicer portraits with a 135/3.5 preset Takumar, the Nikon 75-150 Series E, or the Helios 44-2. I've used the latter to get nice portraits on a Micro four thirds Oly camera where it becomes a short telephoto.


Aug 11, 2016 at 08:15 AM
coase
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Fast normal MF lens question


And thanks Jonas B. Yes, I acknowledge that needs are different. I just try to understand.

Just like I "understand" why different people, especially pros, might want to pay Leica prices. But all my life, I've classified Leica product under the heading "poor value for money" in my scheme of priorities.



Aug 11, 2016 at 08:20 AM
TheEmrys
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Fast normal MF lens question


My Leitz (Leica) Summicron-R 3 cam 50mm was $300ish. It was amazing value for money. Was a great companion to my 55/1.8.


Aug 11, 2016 at 09:07 AM
artificialyello
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Fast normal MF lens question


One should remember that the orgional goal for fast 50s was to faciliate focusing. With filmcameras the lens was wide open during metering, though stoped down in the settings until the release. That's why some of them are a tad fussy at max aperature.


Aug 11, 2016 at 09:19 AM
coase
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Fast normal MF lens question


TheEmrys wrote:
My Leitz (Leica) Summicron-R 3 cam 50mm was $300ish. It was amazing value for money. Was a great companion to my 55/1.8.


I don't think I'm a good enough photographer to exploit those lenses. I don't even stretch the ones I have. So I think it will be a while before I even consider buying a 55/1.8 let alone a Summicron though I like the idea of autofocus in principle.

But if I upgrade and spend, I'm more likely to get a used A7ii in the future just for the IBIS.



Aug 11, 2016 at 09:50 AM
notherenow
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Fast normal MF lens question


I had an A7 for a year and used a number of normal lenses with it including an FD 50 1.2 L, a Pentax 50 1.2 K and various 50/55 1.7/1.8.f2 lenses.

Then I got the Sony Zeiss 55 1.8.

My A7 is sold now (kept the A7s but it still applies).

The FD L was excellent (sold it as I needed the money)
The Pentax K 50 1.2 was a workhorse for me for a long time but eventually got thrown out as it was used to death (and someone dropped it on me).

I still have a few though pretty much the only one I still might use is the Nikon AF 50 1.8 which is my current back up.

Seriously, see if you can at least TRY the Sony Zeiss 55 1.8, it might change your mind about things.

If not, many old 50s will vary greatly rom copy to copy as you don't know how hard their lives have been or even if they were good to begin with.

I think you may well be better getting a current Canon 50 STM and adapter (the combination would be quite cheap and the results would often be better than just about anything really old).
Old lenses can be fun and addictive though.

If you stick with FD's FD L primes are great and the prices have been coming down lately. 24 1.4 L, 50 1.2 L and 85 1.2 L make a nice 3 lens kit (I still have the 24 and 85). I did consider getting another 50 L but got the 55 1.8 FE instead and am very glad I did.



Aug 11, 2016 at 10:51 AM
jwpstl
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Fast normal MF lens question


My favorite is the Nikon 50 1.2. But I would look at sample images before buying one because you might not like the bokeh as much as I do.


Aug 12, 2016 at 01:03 PM
coase
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Fast normal MF lens question


I managed to get a Canon 55/1.2 in a great deal and I love the lens! But sharp from corner to corner at 1.2 it definitely is not! But I can see how the look of the lens when shooting people and for certain artistic effects is beyond compare at 1.2. Except probably by other great lenses at 1.2!


Aug 18, 2016 at 08:24 PM





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