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Archive 2016 · Where are Canon's 50 1.4 and 85 1.8 replacement?

  
 
justruss
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p.3 #1 · p.3 #1 · Where are Canon's 50 1.4 and 85 1.8 replacement?


RSHPhotography wrote:
I would jump all over for a $400 50 1.4 IS and $500 for 85mm 1.8 IS.
I shoot crop on Canon so these would come in super handy in low light for weddings.


I would too...

I think you'd be looking at more like $700-$800 street/used price.

The 35 f/2 MSRP nearly doubled in price when it picked up IS and better optical quality. The 24mm went from $380 to $600. The 28mm went from $375 to $550.

The 50 f/1.4 MSRP is $520. Make a new one around $1K, subtract $200 for street/used after 12-18 months... and you're looking at $800 best case scenario. Keep in mind even the latest Samyang 50mm f/1.4 (no IS, but with AF) is being priced at $699...

The 85mm f/1.8 MSRP is $430. Make a new one $800, subtract $100 for street/used after 12-18 months... and you're looking at $700 best case scenario.

That said, I think there's real room to update the 50 f/1.4 in particular. Let it grow a bit in girth and get better optics and a more robust AF system (one that doesn't break)... and even if it is priced at $800 or more MSRP it will be a good buy compared to some of the competition, like Sony!



Aug 06, 2016 at 04:47 AM
RSHPhotography
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p.3 #2 · p.3 #2 · Where are Canon's 50 1.4 and 85 1.8 replacement?


The weird thing that has to be bothering Canon is that the 50 1.4 is not Canon's top 50mm lens. The 50L is. But the 1.4 is the top lens from every other lens maker. So Canon cannot and should not try to match optics with them.

Eg. The Sigma 50 1.4 is in a totally different class than the Canon 50 1.4.

Because of the 1.2 glass, Canon's 1.4 non L series lineup is the same class as Nikon's G lenses.



Aug 06, 2016 at 08:24 AM
chez
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p.3 #3 · p.3 #3 · Where are Canon's 50 1.4 and 85 1.8 replacement?


RSHPhotography wrote:
The weird thing that has to be bothering Canon is that the 50 1.4 is not Canon's top 50mm lens. The 50L is. But the 1.4 is the top lens from every other lens maker. So Canon cannot and should not try to match optics with them.

Eg. The Sigma 50 1.4 is in a totally different class than the Canon 50 1.4.

Because of the 1.2 glass, Canon's 1.4 non L series lineup is the same class as Nikon's G lenses.


But many people do not need a big slow focusing 1.2 lens but would rather have a great fast 1.4 lens. I don't understand your view on class.



Aug 06, 2016 at 08:40 AM
jcolwell
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p.3 #4 · p.3 #4 · Where are Canon's 50 1.4 and 85 1.8 replacement?


I use both the 50/1.2L and 50/1.4. I don't think that "class" comes into it, other than they're both fast lenses, and they're both "small format" lenses. Different lenses have different image quality, AF performance, and build quality, which are usually related to price.

P.S. the 50/1.2L is not particularly slow to focus.



Aug 06, 2016 at 08:49 AM
Chrissearle
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p.3 #5 · p.3 #5 · Where are Canon's 50 1.4 and 85 1.8 replacement?


The 35/2 IS dropped in price quite a bit after initial introduction and when I purchased one mainly due to being attracted to the relatively low price and interesting spec I was amazed by the IQ, focus speed and IS and it quickly became my favourite lens. If canon made an 85mm "equivalent" I would be extremely happy and would 100% purchase one once the price stabilised.


Aug 11, 2016 at 07:35 AM
retrofocus
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p.3 #6 · p.3 #6 · Where are Canon's 50 1.4 and 85 1.8 replacement?


jcolwell wrote:
I use both the 50/1.2L and 50/1.4. I don't think that "class" comes into it, other than they're both fast lenses, and they're both "small format" lenses. Different lenses have different image quality, AF performance, and build quality, which are usually related to price.

P.S. the 50/1.2L is not particularly slow to focus.


Regarding the new price for the Canon 50/1.4 which is about $350 you should at least expect a much more decent mechanical reliability. Myself and two Canon shooters I know have experienced that the AF simply stops working with this lens. It is known that this is caused by poor mechanical built with the AF system inside the lens (there are several online tutorials online where people show to fix it since Canon charges another $200 to do it...). AF performance overall was not very good with this lens either. The good side of this lens is its optical performance - I was always satisfied here.



Aug 11, 2016 at 10:12 AM
OntheRez
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p.3 #7 · p.3 #7 · Where are Canon's 50 1.4 and 85 1.8 replacement?


Sort of on a tangent here, but how many of us (you) still actually use 50mm whatever f-stop? I haven't had one since my last 50mm f/1.4 blew up probably 8 years ago. I find the 24-70mm f/2.8L to meet all mid-range needs. The only possible problem has been in very dark situations, but I've found the 135mm f/2.0L, the 85mm f/1.8, and occasionally the 35mm f/1.4L to cover everything I need. In fact, I've used the 35mm so little I'm putting it up for sale.

So who's still using 50mm and for what?

Robert



Aug 12, 2016 at 09:39 AM
retrofocus
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p.3 #8 · p.3 #8 · Where are Canon's 50 1.4 and 85 1.8 replacement?


OntheRez wrote:
Sort of on a tangent here, but how many of us (you) still actually use 50mm whatever f-stop? I haven't had one since my last 50mm f/1.4 blew up probably 8 years ago. I find the 24-70mm f/2.8L to meet all mid-range needs. The only possible problem has been in very dark situations, but I've found the 135mm f/2.0L, the 85mm f/1.8, and occasionally the 35mm f/1.4L to cover everything I need. In fact, I've used the 35mm so little I'm putting it up for sale.

So who's still using 50mm and for what?

Robert


My second most often prime lens - followed after 35 mm FL. My 24-70/2.8 L hasn't been used for quite a while. I am using the 50 mm lens for portraits, still life, close up, sceneries, sometimes for landscapes. I currently have 5 different 50 mm lenses, tells you how much I use them. For an event/wedding shooter a zoom lens covering the 50 mm FL might be more convenient - but I am not in this category of shooters. I find primes in general much more convenient.



Aug 12, 2016 at 10:22 AM
OntheRez
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p.3 #9 · p.3 #9 · Where are Canon's 50 1.4 and 85 1.8 replacement?


retrofocus wrote:
My second most often prime lens - followed after 35 mm FL. My 24-70/2.8 L hasn't been used for quite a while. I am using the 50 mm lens for portraits, still life, close up, sceneries, sometimes for landscapes. I currently have 5 different 50 mm lenses, tells you how much I use them. For an event/wedding shooter a zoom lens covering the 50 mm FL might be more convenient - but I am not in this category of shooters. I find primes in general much more convenient.


Thanks for cluing me in. I don't do any portrait, wedding (shudder!), and take other approaches to close up. (My 135 is first choice there.) Guess there's a reason why it's called the "normal" lens.

Robert



Aug 12, 2016 at 01:36 PM
johnctharp
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p.3 #10 · p.3 #10 · Where are Canon's 50 1.4 and 85 1.8 replacement?


A 50mm is a universal lens- wide enough for most situations, narrow enough to keep perspective distortion from being a real problem. Add to that that the cheapest f/1.4 lenses were 50s (not so much with Sigma/Sony entering the fray with top quality choices) and were also compact (again with Sigma/Sony making complex well-corrected lenses).

Even after Canikon put out well-corrected 50/1.4 updates to match/exceed Sigma/Sony, there will still be a space for the classic 50!



Aug 12, 2016 at 09:57 PM
Robin Smith
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p.3 #11 · p.3 #11 · Where are Canon's 50 1.4 and 85 1.8 replacement?


I notice the Sigma 85/1.4 for EOS is now discontinued. I am still guessing a tarted-up version of the same optical formula for the ART version.


Aug 29, 2016 at 01:50 PM
garyvot
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p.3 #12 · p.3 #12 · Where are Canon's 50 1.4 and 85 1.8 replacement?


OntheRez wrote:
So who's still using 50mm and for what?

Robert


I love the 24-70; it's my workhorse along with the 70-200. But I find a 50 useful for more than low light. I still frequently grab a full frame body and a fast 50mm when shooting parties and social events. It's more spontaneous, almost like a sketchbook for me, and the fast aperture does lovely things with the rendering.

If you'll excuse the image spam (the unnamed 50 is the Sigma 1.4 classic, and the camera used with the Summilux is the Leica M9):



























Aug 29, 2016 at 04:02 PM
rscheffler
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p.3 #13 · p.3 #13 · Where are Canon's 50 1.4 and 85 1.8 replacement?


I'd rather see a 50/2L from Canon with similar overall technical and subjective performance of the Leica 50/2 APO ASPH... This is a lens that is insanely sharp, yet retains very pleasing rendering. Not easy to combine in one package... Add AF and a price point attainable by us mortals, and I would be happy. Of course, being f/2, it wouldn't be sexy enough for the bokeh fanboys, but I fear a faster Canon 50L in the ART/OTUS image class will be huge.

As ISO performance improves, I find less need for lenses faster than f/2, so would rather save on size and weight while giving up a slight amount of subject separation.

Same with an 85/1.8 replacement... Make it L series and top of image quality class. I'd rather give up the stop than continue lugging around the current 85L. Alternatively, give me an 85-135/2L IS. Would be great for weddings, though I'm sure it wouldn't be a light, compact package.

Never bought a 24-XX/ or 24-XXX zoom because they're all so big and IMO boring. However, I may break that trend for sheer convenience shooting some event type work if the new 24-105 II is a proven improvement over its predecessor.



Aug 29, 2016 at 04:19 PM
OntheRez
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p.3 #14 · p.3 #14 · Where are Canon's 50 1.4 and 85 1.8 replacement?


garyvot wrote:
I love the 24-70; it's my workhorse along with the 70-200. But I find a 50 useful for more than low light. I still frequently grab a full frame body and a fast 50mm when shooting parties and social events. It's more spontaneous, almost like a sketchbook for me, and the fast aperture does lovely things with the rendering.

If you'll excuse the image spam (the unnamed 50 is the Sigma 1.4 classic, and the camera used with the Summilux is the Leica M9):


Gary, looking at your work, I can see why/how the 50mm performs so well for you. Given the static (well relatively so) nature of your subjects, that paper thin DOF produces some lovely images. I can also see how much more intimate/non-intrusive it is.

I don't do portrait, party, quinceañeras, bar/bat mitzvahs, or weddings, (aaagh, he runs off screaming thus the value of the 50mm would be wasted on me. Still, your pix give me insight into why the 50mm is still around, and what it can do.

If I remember correctly, Cartier-Bresson only used a 50mm lens (on earlier Leicas). In the hands of a master a branch can become a tree.

Robert



Aug 29, 2016 at 04:35 PM
Sorbet
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p.3 #15 · p.3 #15 · Where are Canon's 50 1.4 and 85 1.8 replacement?


OntheRez wrote:
Sort of on a tangent here, but how many of us (you) still actually use 50mm whatever f-stop? I haven't had one since my last 50mm f/1.4 blew up probably 8 years ago. I find the 24-70mm f/2.8L to meet all mid-range needs. The only possible problem has been in very dark situations, but I've found the 135mm f/2.0L, the 85mm f/1.8, and occasionally the 35mm f/1.4L to cover everything I need. In fact, I've used the 35mm so little I'm putting it up for sale.

So who's still using 50mm and for what?

Robert


I love, love, love 50mm. The only focal length I love and use more is 35mm. I have both the 50L and the Sigma 50A. I use them for weddings & portraits and personal pics. I also love using the 24-20/2.8LII at around 50mm. The 50/1.4USM was excellent stopped down, but due to mechanical issues is not worth the purchase price. I sincerely hope that Canon replaces it with a much better 50/1.4. I'm sure they will as they seem to replace every lens eventually.



Aug 29, 2016 at 09:22 PM
Sorbet
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p.3 #16 · p.3 #16 · Where are Canon's 50 1.4 and 85 1.8 replacement?


OntheRez wrote:
Gary, looking at your work, I can see why/how the 50mm performs so well for you. Given the static (well relatively so) nature of your subjects, that paper thin DOF produces some lovely images. I can also see how much more intimate/non-intrusive it is.

I don't do portrait, party, quinceañeras, bar/bat mitzvahs, or weddings, (aaagh, he runs off screaming thus the value of the 50mm would be wasted on me. Still, your pix give me insight into why the 50mm is still around, and what it can do.

If I remember correctly, Cartier-Bresson only used a 50mm lens (on earlier Leicas).
...Show more

That's a bit of a myth about Cartier-Bresson. I believe he mainly used a 50, but not exclusively. I read somewhere that he often carried and sometimes used a 35mm and 90mm in addition to the 50mm. There's a first hand account online by a guy who worked with HCB for a few days late in his career and he reports that for 3 days HCB used a 35mm lens almost exclusively.

Here is HCB speaking about lenses in an interview published in the NY Times:

Q. "Why the 50-millimeter lens?"

A. "It corresponds to a certain vision and at the same time has enough depth of focus, a thing you don’t have in longer lenses. I worked with a 90. It cuts much of the foreground if you take a landscape, but if people are running at you, there is no depth of focus. The 35 is splendid when needed, but extremely difficult to use if you want precision in composition. There are too many elements, and something is always in the wrong place. It is a beautiful lens at times when needed by what you see. But very often it is used by people who want to shout. Because you have a distortion, you have somebody in the foreground and it gives an effect. But I don’t like effects. There is something aggressive, and I don’t like that. Because when you shout, it is usually because you are short of arguments."

Part 1: http://lens.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/06/20/henri-cartier-bresson-living-and-looking/
Part 2: http://lens.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/06/21/cartier-bresson-there-are-no-maybes/



Aug 29, 2016 at 09:34 PM
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