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Archive 2016 · image quality difference in several generation old crop body vs newer fu...

  
 
silvermesa1
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · image quality difference in several generation old crop body vs newer full frame


Can a person see a real world difference in image quality from a crop body Nikon that is several generations old to a new full frame body for portraits in studio vs outdoors? Should I stay put with my current gear or upgrade to a late full frame body like D750 or D810 or compromise for a newer crop body D7200? I would purchase all gear preowned.

A body that focuses well is important.

Background: This fall I have the opportunity to photograph some family members maybe for the last time and want my photos to be as good as I can make them. These will mainly be shot out doors at different times of the day but golden hour should be the prevalent time frame. I recently purchased my first off camera strobe (Cheetah Cl-600x) and a large octabox. I don't anticipate printing large, 11x14 or smaller most likely.

Camera Gear: Nikon D300
Nikon 85mm 1.4D
Nikon 10-24 AFS 3.5


Thank You!





Jul 25, 2016 at 09:01 AM
JimFox
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · image quality difference in several generation old crop body vs newer full frame


There has always been an IQ difference between Crop and Full Frame bodies, even between same generation models. So to try to compare an old Crop body to a new Full Frame body? There would be a huge, huge difference.

Now it depends on what you are doing with the final results as to how noticeable the difference is. Crop bodies for years have put out presentable work. One of my favorite prints to this day is one of my D70 shots from the beach blown up to 16x24 and it has great quality.

So Yes, there is a difference. But No, that doesn't mean that a Crop body is no good. You will have to be the one to decide just how much IQ you need.

If your whole goal is to shoot family portraits, then I don't know why your current D300 would not fit the bill. Back when the D300 was new, I shot weddings with mine. I know others who still use or have used the D300 till recently.

Why do you feel the D300 is not going to work for you?

Jim



Jul 25, 2016 at 10:37 AM
Dudewithoutape
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · image quality difference in several generation old crop body vs newer full frame


I second what Jim says.

For your print size and shooting during the day, you may not notice a whole lot of difference. I recommend getting a different lens (rent?) for nicer bokeh, etc.



Jul 25, 2016 at 11:03 AM
CanadaMark
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · image quality difference in several generation old crop body vs newer full frame


It depends what the final usage of the image will be (i.e. huge print or just Facebook sharing) and if you will be doing much post processing to them. If you will be doing minimal PP and aren't going to be printing huge, you aren't likely to notice much of a difference in a controlled shoot. The more variables you are able to control, generally the less you will notice the difference.

12MP at 11X14 is about 260ppi which is great, so I think you will be OK on that front.

If you need to adjust the image heavily in PP, shoot at high ISO, or print large you will notice an enormous difference between a D300 and a current FF body.

A FF body is going to give you shallower DOF and better backgrounds with your 85/1.4.

I really don't think you are going to see a big enough difference in a controlled shoot to warrant getting a new camera body. If you are happy with the way your D300 focuses now, and you trust it, you will be fine. Nailing focus at F1.4 can be challenging with any body though.

The other thing you can do is rent a D750 or D810 for a day or two (either for the shoot itself, or beforehand to see if you think it's worth a purchase), but just fair warning, you are going to want one



Jul 25, 2016 at 11:16 AM
Andrew Pece Photography
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · image quality difference in several generation old crop body vs newer full frame


I agree it depeneds on final usage, but I totally disagree with what has been said above.

Nobody, not even photographers unless they sort of pixel peep, are going to be able to tell the difference. Clients are what matters, and believe me they are really.... REALLY not going to be seeing any differences, at all! Not even close. Crop and full frame are just absolutely comparable. There's no denying it I don't understand why people think there are these huge differences. I think it is because of the price differences.

Now of course the focusing and all that can be better, so you're more apt to get more usable shots, but I took your question to be different from that.



Jul 25, 2016 at 12:04 PM
Steve Perry
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · image quality difference in several generation old crop body vs newer full frame


Like Jim says, it's a huge difference between a current FX and a D300.

However, it's a difference that probably only matters to photographers.

I know a local guy here in town who does senior photos (really good too) and I think he still uses a D2x. The clients love the shots and they look great.

Edited on Jul 26, 2016 at 05:06 AM · View previous versions



Jul 25, 2016 at 12:15 PM
chuhsi1
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · image quality difference in several generation old crop body vs newer full frame


my take is that you could use an iphone and take excellent pictures if you know what you're doing. One of my favorite family pictures was with an iphone despite having thousands of dollars of fancy equipment. i wouldn't buy new gear just for one photoshoot.


Jul 25, 2016 at 01:26 PM
Weasel_Loader
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · image quality difference in several generation old crop body vs newer full frame


Steve Perry wrote:
I'm know a local guy here in town who does senior photos (really good too) and I think he still uses a D2x. The clients love the shots and they look great.


That simple statement goes a long way and often overlooked by many.



Jul 25, 2016 at 01:28 PM
LeifG
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · image quality difference in several generation old crop body vs newer full frame


Over 2 years ago I upgraded from a D200 to a D600 for nature and macro work, and there was a huge difference. It wasn't the sensor size, but the sensor technology. Whereas the D200 would tend to blow whites, the D600 (in DX mode), would preserve subtle shades of white. I imagine a wedding dress would make this quite obvious. I had gone from less than 8 stops of dynamic range to about 12. As to the difference between current generation DX and FX, I doubt there is much difference except as said earlier FX allows shallower DOF with fast lenses, and noise will be a bit better.


Jul 25, 2016 at 01:49 PM
rw11
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · image quality difference in several generation old crop body vs newer full frame


huge - not just res either - older bodies also had lower dynamic range and IIRC lower color depth

e.g. my D5100 looked "flat" and uninteresting EVEN if the highlights weren't blown - then I bought a D610 and revivified my interest in photography

my D80 looked worse than the D5100, BTW

AFAIK, those 3 things largely determine sensor performance - resolution, DR & color depth



Jul 25, 2016 at 02:10 PM
Two23
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · image quality difference in several generation old crop body vs newer full frame


Andrew Pece Photography wrote:
I agree it depeneds on final usage, but I totally disagree with what has been said above.

Nobody, not even photographers unless they sort of pixel peep, are going to be able to tell the difference. Clients are what matters, and believe me they are really.... REALLY not going to be seeing any differences, at all! Not even close. Crop and full frame are just absolutely comparable.




That has been my own experience as well. D7200 used plus better lenses, and a basic lighting system (2 flash, stands, modifiers) for what you want.


Kent in SD




Jul 25, 2016 at 07:00 PM
runamuck
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · image quality difference in several generation old crop body vs newer full frame


I am a member of a competition camera club. Many members do not have the latest greatest gazillion megapixel cameras. I have NEVER been able to tell the camera used. One member I know still uses a Nikon D40 and does great work. Another uses a Coolpix A and regularly finishes near or at the top.


Jul 25, 2016 at 07:26 PM
Smousefam5
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · image quality difference in several generation old crop body vs newer full frame


Dudewithoutape wrote:
I recommend getting a different lens (rent?) for nicer bokeh, etc.


Something not good about a Nikon 85mm 1.4's bokeh?



Jul 25, 2016 at 07:35 PM
Andrew Pece Photography
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · image quality difference in several generation old crop body vs newer full frame


With all respect of course, I guarantee, if you sent out the same portrait to 25 clients, one on a d300 and one on a d750, and asked "which one do you like better?", or "do they look the same?" You'd get the following response...

Of course it would be difficult to impossible to get the exact same portrait, but if you could and equivalent aperture etc were used, almost every single person would say they look the same. The other outliers would just guess at one. And, the reason is simple, they pretty much would be the same.

More resolution, or edge sharpness may be great for like a forensic photographer. I don't see many of those in these parts though.

I just honestly can't tell you how surprised I am that intelligent, knowledgeable photographers say they're "huge" differences between these sensors. It totally blows my mind. Pixel peeping means effectively nothing.

Another example, if a great photographer shot a group portrait tomorrow but switched to a d300 and say the new sigma 18-35, it would be absolutely, unequivocally ALL about the lighting, posing, expressions. Just like any great portrait or group portrait. I'm betting like .01 percent of the population would even know anything was different from the photographer's usual work, and that would be after pixel peeping, which is entirely and utterly useless.

If there is a difference that only matters to photographers between certain equipment, that is no difference at all. Of course we are taking this in the context of the ops question who is asking about how her equipment will hold up for her customers in her studio setup. If the question was about getting published in magazines or getting your landscapes into a prestegeous showing the discussion and answer may be quite different.

In short, many in this thread have advised there is a "huge" difference between these sensors. From her customers pov that it simply not true, and that was the question. This advice is stearing him or her into buying very expensive gear that will add absolutely nothing to what he or she offers, from the client's pov anyway. Bad advice, poor statements, bottom line. I think the op should get a d7000 series, since focus was mentioned. Go with sigmas new art line for lenses and at this point, believe me, nobody is going to see a difference at all and you just about halved the price you spent on body and lenses when compared to full frame systems.

Edited on Jul 26, 2016 at 01:35 AM · View previous versions



Jul 26, 2016 at 01:05 AM
Norm Shapiro
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · image quality difference in several generation old crop body vs newer full frame


Keep the gear you have and learn how to get the most out if that new light.


Jul 26, 2016 at 01:13 AM
Dudewithoutape
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · image quality difference in several generation old crop body vs newer full frame


Smousefam5 wrote:
Something not good about a Nikon 85mm 1.4's bokeh?


Nothing wrong at all, but why not the 58 since these will be once in a lifetime?



Jul 26, 2016 at 03:18 AM
NightOwl Cat
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · image quality difference in several generation old crop body vs newer full frame


If this family event is that important to you, you could always rent a full frame camera, getting it a week early to get familiar with it, and use both your D300 and the rental to shoot the photos, thereby settling the "if only I had" regrets


Jul 26, 2016 at 03:26 AM
dugaut
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · image quality difference in several generation old crop body vs newer full frame


Couple of random thoughts come to mind when these questions get asked.

In no particular order:
1. Amateurs in some cases have better equipment than the pros.
2. You will be in a controlled environment and are paying attention to lighting.
3. I read, on this sight I think, a "study" where people off the street, amateur photographers, and pro photographers were asked to view pictures. Each group took longer time and viewed more of the photo than the previous. I sometimes think when I'm sweating out the last detail in post that most of my audience won't notice.
4. You will be your own worst critic
5. Your execution and attention to the details will make more of a difference in this situation than the equipment.
6. The "relationship" you create with your family at the time you take the photo will make a significant difference.

I think you have what you need. Show your passion and they will respond favorably.



Jul 26, 2016 at 04:49 AM
pr4photos
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · image quality difference in several generation old crop body vs newer full frame


I had a D300 and now have a D750 and D800. There is a massive difference in image quality

But, at the size you are printing, you probably won't see those differences. Certainly not in resolution. However you might well see the differences in tonal quality

The best thing you could do is rent a current camera and compare the images from what you are getting from the D300. Only you can decide whats best for you



Jul 26, 2016 at 05:53 AM
amlsml
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · image quality difference in several generation old crop body vs newer full frame


Silvermesa1, Your gear is fine. I would hire a photographer for what you describe. I will often hire a colleague to shoot some of my important events, so I can be in them, and don't have to worry about fooling with my gear. In the past year, I have shot his sons communion and he shot a family reunion for me. Might be worth the thought instead of replacing what you have. Good luck with your shoot. Hope the weather cooperates .


Jul 26, 2016 at 07:42 AM
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