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Archive 2016 · Canon colors and "look"

  
 
haleheartless
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Canon colors and "look"


I posted on the Nikon forum asking this same question, now I would like this forum's opinion!
I shot a Nikon D7000 for two years and was not entirely pleased with the camera. I had no problems with the megapixel count, nor noise, nor dynamic range. I've never shot a camera - Nikon, Canon, Sony, whatever, where those things bothered me.
What did bother me was the color reproduction. Color was bad and it causes me frustration all these years later.
In the Nikon forum, the comments were, "color doesn't matter if you're shooting RAW," which I guess is completely true. You can manipulate colors to your liking.
However, I feel like Canon files respond better in RAW processors and they often have a better starting point. Nikon is too... accurate and boring. Canon is often way off but very pleasing. Nice color casts and pink tones in the skin.
I've also shot the 6D and loved the colors off of it. Disappointed with the focusing system, but otherwise I loved it. (Also I think it had better low light performance than the equivalent Nikon, opinions on this would be appreciated).
I've been recently watching videos on the 5DsR. Jared Polin's sample images were GORGEOUS. Some of the best photos he's taken. Jeremy Smith noted the 5DsR's RAW files started off more contrasty with better color.
Now, the Nikon D750 and D810 have better color response and accuracy so I've heard.
The Nikon D500 also exhibits pretty good color. But I still really like the Canon look better than any brand. And I'm not skilled enough at post-processing to match it.
Anyone here switched to Canon just for the "look" and color? Did you find what you were looking for?
Would it be a mistake to switch to Canon solely for the colors?
Thanks!



Jul 24, 2016 at 08:28 PM
RustyBug
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Canon colors and "look"


Unless you are switching to a CCD for "the colors" ... I think that it is just a matter of dialing in your processing parameters to your taste. There are those who feel Canon does better at skin tones, etc.

But, the gamut of what one person finds to be "good color" (not always the same as accurate color), lends itself to profiling. Really, though ... way back when (i.e. film days) we clamored for the ability to develop our own profiles. Fast forward, and here we are with the ability to do just that very thing ... and yet, now we often times want it already done for us the way we expect it to be done.

Canon vs. Nikon @ colors ... diff, sure, but I wouldn't let that be my primary consideration for switching since you can pretty much profile anything to anything with a little time and effort.



Jul 24, 2016 at 08:40 PM
gdanmitchell
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Canon colors and "look"


As a user of more than one brand, I'm a big skeptic about the effects of so-called color differences. I don't doubt that they exist, but they disappear once you learn the ideal post-processing workflow for your camera.

If you look around you'll see a couple of telling things. First, great photographers use all different brands of camera, and they all produce excellent work. Secondly, you cannot tell who is using which camera by looking at the photographs, even when they are presented as large, high quality prints.

In general, switching more often than not does not produce the level of change that folks expect, and it quite a few cases the photographer actually goes back to what he or she was previously using. (There are exceptions, but they are most often about thins other than colors.)

Good luck on your quest.

Dan



Jul 24, 2016 at 08:41 PM
robsuh
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Canon colors and "look"


I've always shot Canon, but have owned a D700 and own a A6000. I think one gets used to a look and that look becomes "right." That being said, I really dislike A6000 skin tones, especially indoors. That is jpegs and lightroom raw. I understand other raw programs might do better, but I couldn't get used to phase capture one.

So, if you like Canon colors, it is a good reason to go with Canon. Fuji colors look really good to me to.

Canon seems to have punchier reds. Nikon seems more pastel like to me, but that was a long time ago and I might not be remembering right.





Jul 24, 2016 at 08:44 PM
Josef Isayo
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Canon colors and "look"


Canon in my opinion has the best skin tones of any 35mm based DSLR. My favorite skin tones from cameras I've owned through the years are the following.
1-Hasselblad, CCD or CMOS, 2- Fuji, 3- Canon.



Jul 24, 2016 at 08:58 PM
haleheartless
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Canon colors and "look"


RustyBug wrote:
Unless you are switching to a CCD for "the colors" ... I think that it is just a matter of dialing in your processing parameters to your taste. There are those who feel Canon does better at skin tones, etc.

But, the gamut of what one person finds to be "good color" (not always the same as accurate color), lends itself to profiling. Really, though ... way back when (i.e. film days) we clamored for the ability to develop our own profiles. Fast forward, and here we are with the ability to do just that very thing ... and yet, now
...Show more

I can understand from your words and perspective that you have a toooon of more experience than I do. Thanks for explaining.



Jul 24, 2016 at 09:03 PM
haleheartless
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Canon colors and "look"


gdanmitchell wrote:
As a user of more than one brand, I'm a big skeptic about the effects of so-called color differences. I don't doubt that they exist, but they disappear once you learn the ideal post-processing workflow for your camera.

If you look around you'll see a couple of telling things. First, great photographers use all different brands of camera, and they all produce excellent work. Secondly, you cannot tell who is using which camera by looking at the photographs, even when they are presented as large, high quality prints.

In general, switching more often than not does not produce the level of change
...Show more

Thank you Dan!



Jul 24, 2016 at 09:04 PM
RUATurtle
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Canon colors and "look"


Is this off color a white balance issue?
I sometime will shoot a photo usually indoors, where I just can't get a good color rendition with out putting a black, white and gray card in the scene. I then can set the points in curves or levels and get it back to what I saw. I'm real happy with the 7D-II. There are a few ways in Photoshop to correct color casts after the fact.



Jul 24, 2016 at 09:08 PM
melcat
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Canon colors and "look"


haleheartless wrote:
Jeremy Smith noted the 5DsR's RAW files started off more contrasty...


This is a well-known problem with Lightroom and Camera Raw:

http://forums.adobe.com/message/7837369#7837369

I believe this has been fixed in a recent release. Regardless, contrast is only a property of the raw converter, not the camera.

Now, the Nikon D750 and D810 have better color response and accuracy so I've heard.

Accuracy is not relevant, since that's a property of the raw converter and not the camera. However different cameras do have different precision for colours. The only publicly available measurements I know of are at DxO, and they do show most Nikons better than most Canons, with the Canon 6D one of the worst cameras. This does not mean that the 6D is not more precise for skin tones (just less precise in general).

Would it be a mistake to switch to Canon solely for the colors?

I personally would sort out my postprocessing instead, but if you prefer to just change the cameras, why not? All that matters is the results.



Jul 25, 2016 at 04:30 AM
Monito
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Canon colors and "look"


haleheartless wrote:
Would it be a mistake to switch to Canon solely for the colors?


Yes.

There are many reasons to switch to Canon, but if the colours are the only thing then there needs to be more thinking.

Either colours are super-super important to your work, crucial / make-or-break, and the Canon colours are just right for your work (in which case switch solely for the colours)

... or ...

colours are non make-or-break (in which case consider all the other factors including post-processing).

The 5Ds is a fabulous all-round camera. I'm so glad I got mine. But Nikon cameras are not too shabby.



Jul 25, 2016 at 04:37 AM
Access
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Canon colors and "look"


Doesn't Canon still make their own sensors? And presumably the Bayer arrays too? So presumably there could be technical differences, in terms of the accuracy. Though admittedly, they are likely to be very minor.

Also, perception of color can vary from one person to another, beyond the obvious cases such as outright colorblindness. Probably more than between one camera and the next.

While I've heard it cited before, I think the switching because of color rendition is mostly rationalization (some may simply want to switch, so they find a reason to justify it in the end).



Jul 25, 2016 at 05:19 AM
ggreene
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Canon colors and "look"


Josef Isayo wrote:
Canon in my opinion has the best skin tones of any 35mm based DSLR. My favorite skin tones from cameras I've owned through the years are the following.
1-Hasselblad, CCD or CMOS, 2- Fuji, 3- Canon.


I'm not sure Canon has the best skin tones now. The 1DX2 looks way too yellow for my taste. Not sure why they changed that.



Jul 25, 2016 at 06:21 AM
hotdog12
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Canon colors and "look"


I've been in the business for 35 years. For some reason, Nikon's colors have always been a bit cooler/neutral compared to Canon's slightly warmer rendition. I've spoken to pro Nikon shooters who noticed it as well as Canon folks.

This was true back in the film era, so I suspect it might have something to do with the lens multicoating--you can kinda see the difference when you see light reflecting off the lens surfaces. These days the manufacturers may also be tweaking their firmware differently. It's neither good nor bad, just a bit different.

Of course you can correct in PP, especially with raw. But I thought I would just throw this observation out there.



Jul 25, 2016 at 09:09 AM
15Bit
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Canon colors and "look"


I've always wondered how folk can talk about a manufacturer "look" without also mentioning the RAW converter used, given how different the various converters are.


Jul 25, 2016 at 09:47 AM
Thorsten
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Canon colors and "look"


I've shot Nikon and Sony in the past, but in my view, Canon has the best colors, especially for skin tones. This is a big reason why I use Canon now. Practically everything comes out looking right, no need to manipulate any colors in post. Nikon's colors used to be pretty good, but they have deteriorated once they moved to Sony sensors with the D800 generation. Now the skin tones are too yellow/green. Nikon's landscape colors are still good. Sony is worse in every aspect. I found skin tones too brown, and landscapes just don't look right to me. It may be subjective of course, but that's how I decided it for me.


Jul 25, 2016 at 10:13 AM
gdanmitchell
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Canon colors and "look"


15Bit wrote:
I've always wondered how folk can talk about a manufacturer "look" without also mentioning the RAW converter used, given how different the various converters are.


It isn't so much how the converters are different — for the most part you can get the same results from any of them once you understand how to use the programs.



Jul 25, 2016 at 10:35 AM
Robin Smith
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Canon colors and "look"


As a user of more than one brand, I'm a big skeptic about the effects of so-called color differences. I don't doubt that they exist, but they disappear once you learn the ideal post-processing workflow for your camera.

I agree with Dan: for my purposes any half decent camera will make a suitably accurate/pleasant color that I will be happy with after suitable PP and I don't shoot JPEGs, which I think is what many people are talking about when they talk about different color rendition. Perhaps this means I am not so sensitive to color differences (a bit like the "rendering" of lenses), which may well be true, also I do not have to match fabric swatches etc (also true). Color rendition of sensors is just not something I worry about.



Jul 25, 2016 at 10:55 AM
gdanmitchell
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · Canon colors and "look"


I have found that every time I moved to a new camera, whether the same or different brands, I had to tweak my post processing default starting points. At first that seems like an interruption, but soon it simply becomes the norm and I move on.

Dan



Jul 25, 2016 at 12:02 PM
robsuh
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · Canon colors and "look"


LR has color profiles. If you use Adobe Standard, then Adobe is trying to match all cameras to that profile.

I use Adobe Standard for LR and instantly noticed the colors looked off when shooting Sony A6000 compared to all previous Canon bodies. So, saying this is jpeg only issue is incorrect.

It is most likely an Adobe recipe issue when some people (like myself) say colors look "different."

To me, LR5 was really bad for Sony raw handling. Really muddy colors on occasion and it was hard for me to fix to match the Sony jpegs (I shoot raw+jpeg and have resorted to using jpeg output for the most part.)




Jul 25, 2016 at 12:12 PM
Sorbet
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · Canon colors and "look"


haleheartless wrote:
I posted on the Nikon forum asking this same question, now I would like this forum's opinion!
I shot a Nikon D7000 for two years and was not entirely pleased with the camera. I had no problems with the megapixel count, nor noise, nor dynamic range. I've never shot a camera - Nikon, Canon, Sony, whatever, where those things bothered me.
What did bother me was the color reproduction. Color was bad and it causes me frustration all these years later.
In the Nikon forum, the comments were, "color doesn't matter if you're shooting RAW," which I guess is completely true. You can
...Show more

Some years back I bought two Nikon D7000 bodies and some Nikon lenses & flashes to explore a possible switch from Canon. It didn't work out! The main problem was the color. It was generally good enough, but I often felt that it was not AS GOOD as what I had been getting from Canon. So I sold all of my Nikon gear and kept everything Canon. Ergonomics was the other reason.

Those color differences are real and they don't disappear once you learn the "ideal workflow".

Edited on Jul 25, 2016 at 12:21 PM · View previous versions



Jul 25, 2016 at 12:17 PM
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