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Archive 2016 · 5DsR+1Dx or 5DsR+1Dx2 for my shooting?

  
 
rabbitmountain
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · 5DsR+1Dx or 5DsR+1Dx2 for my shooting?


Hello all,

Am I overthinking this?

I have a 5DsR and a 5D2. I do portraits and events mostly (and use 2 FF bodies simultaneously) so I want to stick with 2 FF bodies. I wish to do more sports shooting.

I want to sell the 5D2 (* reasons see below) and get a high fps FF body so I can
- still have two FF bodies for weddings and events
- have a better AF system when I need more instant AF lock on and better tracking (wildlife / sports / brides walking down aisles)
- better build for events in rainy conditions
- shoot sports

Sell the 5D2 and get a 1Dx or 1Dx2 is the obvious choice. Before the 1Dx2 arrived the 1Dx received lots of praise. These are the only FF options to meet the above requirements. I don't care much for 4K (5D2 video quality still exceeds my own abilities) so I'm inclined to get a good deal on a used 1Dx. The question is will I regret not getting the 2. Obviously it's better but the premium is considerable (about €3000 now). To break it down in pieces:
1 high ISO noise: not much difference, if any
2 DR at low ISO: my 5DsR does very well already
3 DR at ISO 800 and up: not much difference between 1Dx and 1Dx2 according to dxo so I don't expect to benefit much from the new sensor advancements
4 anti flicker: I could use that as I intend to shoot inside gym sports
5 14 fps vs 12 fps: not extremely relevant for my work I think
6 AF? That is a big ? for me.

I will (also) be using the 1Dx in less than ideal light conditions. Think:
o gym sports, outside in mornings, evenings,
o rainy conditions. But also:
o hot mid day field sports like soccer and hockey. And:
o using 50/1.2 and 85/1.2 lenses wide open to weddings and events

How much AF improvement really is there?

I can free up the funds for a 1Dx2 but my resources certainly are limited and it could be nice to save some €€€ for travel or a new washing machine.

I hope some fresh 1Dx2 owners can judge from the above if it's worth - for my needs - to explore the 1Dx2 path. If not, I won't bother as I'm not into spending huge amounts of time testing gear - I know I could rent and see for myself but I much rather use my time to actually shoot.

[Edit: just wanted to add that I had the 1Dx for a week and wasn't overly impressed with the AF accuracy in dark gyms (think 1/1000 f/2.8 ISO 12800) but that may have been lack of user experience]

Thanks a bunch,
Ralph



* Reasons to sell 5D2:
The 5D2 sensor is still very capable and I've managed to run a business for years shooting weddings and events with a 5D and 5D2. However, now that I have the 5DsR my 5D2 AF seems very slow, I can't reliably use the outer points and the operation/buttons are quite different and still confuse me even after months of using them together. I once tried a 1Dx for a week and as it's so different in shooting operation (drive and mode buttons) and so much more similar to the 5D3/5DsR in menu / playback operation, I felt more at home with 5DsR / 1Dx combo within two days than I've ever been with the 5DsR / 5D2 combo.



Jul 19, 2016 at 08:52 AM
Danpbphoto
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · 5DsR+1Dx or 5DsR+1Dx2 for my shooting?


I can only speak from my personal situations. I have a 1Dx and a 5D3.....If you are satisfied with 5DSR sell the 5D2 and get a 1Dx. The 1 Dx is just a pure pleasure to shoot with. I shoot all primes except for 70-200 II f/2.8 and 24-70 II and there is NO MA needed on any lens, hi iso is wonderful...just a pleasure!
Dan



Jul 19, 2016 at 09:19 AM
gdanmitchell
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · 5DsR+1Dx or 5DsR+1Dx2 for my shooting?


Wait for the 5DIV.


Jul 19, 2016 at 09:39 AM
dhphoto
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · 5DsR+1Dx or 5DsR+1Dx2 for my shooting?


The 1DX didn't become obsolete overnight, I'd get one of those unless you can stretch to the newer model


Jul 19, 2016 at 09:51 AM
jcolwell
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · 5DsR+1Dx or 5DsR+1Dx2 for my shooting?


I'd get the 1DX.


Jul 19, 2016 at 09:55 AM
mb126
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · 5DsR+1Dx or 5DsR+1Dx2 for my shooting?


Maybe 5D Mark IV? Either way, the 1DX is still a really, really, really good camera that becomes a better value every day.


Jul 19, 2016 at 09:55 AM
KKFung
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · 5DsR+1Dx or 5DsR+1Dx2 for my shooting?


>>> using 50/1.2 and 85/1.2 lenses wide open to weddings and events<<<

The fast response of the live view touch DPAF on 1Dx2 may give you a new idea of shooting



Jul 19, 2016 at 10:20 AM
mikeinctown
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · 5DsR+1Dx or 5DsR+1Dx2 for my shooting?


Just got rid of a 5D2 and got a 1Dx myself. I have no regrets. I would say though that if you are using the body to make money, go with the best you can afford. Images in the photo thread at 12,800 with the II are pretty amazing, and when you compare side by side, you can tell there is a difference. If your shooting only a couple times a year for $$, then the extra 3k price tag may be too steep a climb.


Jul 19, 2016 at 11:54 AM
rabbitmountain
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · 5DsR+1Dx or 5DsR+1Dx2 for my shooting?


@ Danpb: good to hear you are so pleased

@ GDan/mb126: waiting for the 5DIV did cross my mind, but as canon will maintain the target groups per camera line (tough build, weather sealing, 10+ fps) I don't suppose it will do exactly what I want. I may be wrong so I might hold off my decision a bit. Good advice.

@ dhphoto: I could stretch for the 1Dx2. Hence this topic. Trying to find out here if I should invest time to check one out. If a fresh 1Dx2 owner should advise me - based on my specific needs - to get the 1Dx that would be very convincing ...

@ Jim: that makes sense after reading your contributions to the 1Dx2 upgrade or not discussions

@ KKFung: could you elaborate? Is there a good reason to take my eye away from the viewfinder and use liveview for weddings? Is it because it will automatically track the bride while she walks?

Thanks all.
Kind regards, Ralph



Jul 19, 2016 at 11:58 AM
gdanmitchell
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · 5DsR+1Dx or 5DsR+1Dx2 for my shooting?


rabbitmountain wrote:
@ GDan/mb126: waiting for the 5DIV did cross my mind, but as canon will maintain the target groups per camera line (tough build, weather sealing, 10+ fps) I don't suppose it will do exactly what I want. I may be wrong so I might hold off my decision a bit. Good advice.


To expand on my thinking just a bit... you are apparently fine with the build of the 5DsR. (I am, too.) You would likely be happy with (and perhaps more than happy with) the functional capabilities of the earlier 1Dx. There is a pretty good chance that the 5DIV will be functionally very close to and in some ways equal to the first 1Dx model, but at a much lower cost, and with the same build quality that works for you on the 5DsR.

And it also sounds like you are in a position to wait a bit if you choose to.

Good luck with your decisions.

Dan



Jul 19, 2016 at 12:11 PM
rabbitmountain
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · 5DsR+1Dx or 5DsR+1Dx2 for my shooting?


Hi Dan, close, but not quite. I am very happy with the 5DsR sensor and I think I did well trading my brand new 5D3 for it. The build quality seems similar to the 5D3 and quite a lot better than my 5D2. But when shooting in harsh conditions (a little rain, dust) I am hesitant to expose it for longer periods of time. I own the 70-/00/2.8ii and that is probably the most robust lens I have ever owned. No problem at all shooting it wherever. But I like the thought of having a body that I can use anywhere without having to worry about it all the time.
Also, the high fps feature appeals to me. The 5D4 is likely to have a very good AF system, maybe the same base system as the 1Dx2 but again a little crippled here and there.
A low mileage used 1Dx will certainly be more affordable than a new 5D4.

And yes I can wait a little more. I'd like to have my camera before the start of the new gym season in October. But I'd also prefer to sell my 5D2 before the 5D4 specs come out. Let's see what happens in the next few weeks. I'm on holiday now so I can't buy new gear until mid August anyway.

Thanks again for your input, always a pleasure



Jul 19, 2016 at 12:50 PM
Scott Stoness
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · 5DsR+1Dx or 5DsR+1Dx2 for my shooting?


I have 5dsr, 5d3, 5d2, 7d2 - I usually pass my stuff on to family rather than selling it.

My observation/bias is that the 5dsr is the best camera available for portaits and events and still wildlife. And the 5d2 is pretty good too.

I don't think you need to buy anything new at all. The 5d2 is a good backup.

Since I bought the 5dsr I rarely use my 7d2 because a crop of 5dsr is better than the 7d2 uncropped plus more dynamic range. The only thing the 1dx2 or 1dx does better is fps and above 6400 ISO for portraits /events.

Better to have one favorite camera than two because there are nuances/differences between them that could trip you up in a crtical time at an event.

If you were shooting bif, I would have a different opinion.

Stand pat - you have nothing to gain in upgrading now.

Edited on Jul 19, 2016 at 01:09 PM · View previous versions



Jul 19, 2016 at 12:59 PM
rabbitmountain
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · 5DsR+1Dx or 5DsR+1Dx2 for my shooting?


Scott Stoness wrote:
I don't think you need to buy anything new at all. The 5d2 is a good backup.


Thanks for your input and I understand what you say, but you see my 5D2 isn't a backup, I mostly use a two camera setup while shooting events. One body with a 70-/00ii, the other with a 35L or 50L. Or a 35l / 85L setup. So I mix things up now while shooting. When I still had my 5D / 5D2 combo all was well.

The 5D2 has to go no matter what, even if I'd eventually skip the entire sports shooting I'd still get at least a used 5D3.



Jul 19, 2016 at 01:09 PM
Scott Stoness
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · 5DsR+1Dx or 5DsR+1Dx2 for my shooting?


rabbitmountain wrote:
Thanks for your input and I understand what you say, but you see my 5D2 isn't a backup, I mostly use a two camera setup while shooting events. One body with a 70-/00ii, the other with a 35L or 50L. Or a 35l / 85L setup. So I mix things up now while shooting. When I still had my 5D / 5D2 combo all was well.

The 5D2 has to go no matter what, even if I'd eventually skip the entire sports shooting I'd still get at least a used 5D3.


I agree that if you are using the 5d2 it is a little dated for fast focus, fps...

The 5d3 is a terrific camera - fast histrogram, fast focus - aside from 50mpx its better than the 5dsr. Only you can decide whether the 1dx or 1dx2 is worth the extra. It is not for me because the 5dsr is better for my needs (landscape, wildlife because of croppability).but I guess is price was no object and I was going to use it the 1dx2 is better as a 2nd camera than 5d3. But 5d3 is closer in features/batteries/feel in the dark. I am a fan of having a body that I can operate with my eyes closed - maybe a 2nd 5dsr unless you need the fps.




Jul 19, 2016 at 01:12 PM
ggreene
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · 5DsR+1Dx or 5DsR+1Dx2 for my shooting?


If you are going to be doing a lot of very fast sports/action that will require the extra 2 FPS and/or shoot a lot at low ISO then the 1DX2 may be worth it over the 1DX. Otherwise 1DX will probably more then meet your needs. Canon typically keeps the 1D bodies in support for quite some time so you still have plenty of usable value with them.


Jul 19, 2016 at 02:11 PM
RobertLynn
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · 5DsR+1Dx or 5DsR+1Dx2 for my shooting?


I still use a pair of 1dx. The x is goodie goodie gum drops


Jul 19, 2016 at 07:01 PM
Dpedraza
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · 5DsR+1Dx or 5DsR+1Dx2 for my shooting?


1dx and add another lens or just pocket the savings


Jul 19, 2016 at 07:40 PM
KKFung
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · 5DsR+1Dx or 5DsR+1Dx2 for my shooting?


rabbitmountain wrote:
@ KKFung: could you elaborate? Is there a good reason to take my eye away from the viewfinder and use liveview for weddings? Is it because it will automatically track the bride while she walks?

Thanks all.
Kind regards, Ralph


Ralph, this is what I thought and the DPAF can fix some operational issue when AF on the area outside the center area when using those super fast lens



Jul 19, 2016 at 07:46 PM
rabbitmountain
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · 5DsR+1Dx or 5DsR+1Dx2 for my shooting?


KKFung wrote:
Ralph, this is what I thought and the DPAF can fix some operational issue when AF on the area outside the center area when using those super fast lens


Hi KKFung,
Thanks for explaining. The thing is that I've never really learned to like ,LV in fast paced shooting as my eyes need strong reading glasses so gong from the scene to the LCD and back is troublesome. I think I wish to stick with the viewfinder. Maybe for video the DPAF is a nice solution?
Kind regards, Ralph



Jul 20, 2016 at 10:23 AM
wallstreetonei
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · 5DsR+1Dx or 5DsR+1Dx2 for my shooting?


we are in a very similar boat - so I will tell you what i did

- few years ago i was a 2 x 5D3 shooter with 24-70 & 70-200
- added a 7D2, then played with various combinations of using 2 or 3 cameras with the 7D2 there for fast FPS or just to have a fast prime on that camera to add to my 2 camera setup
- the advantage was it is identical in setup to the 5D3
- traded a 5D3 for a 5DSR - then fell in love with the 5DSR
- traded the 2nd 5D3 for another 5DSR
- now was a 2 5DSR shooter but also had the 7D2 for fast FPS and 3rd lens - and all identical setups
- traded the 7D2 and 1 5DSR for a 1Dx_II
- this allowed me to have 1 main body with 24-70 for 70% of the pictures at 20 megapixels and the 2nd camera is a 5DSR with either the 70-200 or the new Tamron 85 1.8 VC for high megapixel bridal and family portraits

I like this setup, but I also think that a 5D4 + 1DX_II or 5DSR + 1DX_II or 2x5D4 would work as well

The key will be if the 5D4 is close to 30 megapixels - at that point and the far better ISO 100 DR will make this camera really shine and result in a huge upgrade cycle from the 5D3

What the 7D2 started, what the 5DSR continued, was furthered in the new 80D and now finally with the 1Dx_II is that fixing the crappy noise in the shadows together with another stop of low ISO DR has made these new cameras, that will culminate with the 5D4, as basically giving Canon users almost a Sony type sensor - and this will be good enough for a mass upgrade.

Because of this, I wouldn't buy any old Canon sensor as I think they are all going to depreciate very quickly - they don't have 4K, the noise in the blacks is not good - so wait and buy a camera with a new sensor when you are able to is my recommendation - either 1DX_II or 5D4 - the 5DSR is a great camera but I would push you to the new 1DX_II or maybe better for you the new 5D4.



Jul 20, 2016 at 11:02 AM
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