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Archive 2016 · BIG image warning!Bokeh rendering sample of Tamron 85mm & 70-200mm F...

  
 
GabrielPhoto
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · BIG image warning!Bokeh rendering sample of Tamron 85mm & 70-200mm F2.8 usm ii..questions..


UPDATE:
Tamron has confirmed that this is normal for this lens!

"That actually does look pretty normal to me. I double checked with one of our technicians here and he agreed that this seems to be OK for this lens."


Hello!

So I received the Tamron 85mm SP and while it is very sharp wide open there is something on the Bokeh depending on what the background is, that I am not loving. I tested it against my 70-200mm F2.8 and that one renders much more like I like it.

I wonder that part of the design accounts for this. For example on the second photo on the lower left side those branches look harsh and kind of worm like vs the smooth blending rendition of the 70-200mm.

Is the EF 85mm 1.8 closer in Bokeh rendering to my 70-200mm F2.8 usm ii?

Next I will be testing the Sony 85mm GM and Batis.

Thanks!


Tamron are the first two photos from left to right. First at 1.8 then 2.8 then the ef 70-200 at 2.8 is the photo on the right.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/11789282/Tamron1.PNG
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/11789282/Tamron2.PNG

Edited on Jul 22, 2016 at 09:07 AM · View previous versions



Jul 16, 2016 at 09:17 AM
AJSJones
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · BIG image warning!Bokeh rendering sample of Tamron 85mm & 70-200mm F2.8 usm ii..questions..


Why so big?
Which is which?



Jul 16, 2016 at 09:51 AM
wallstreetonei
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · BIG image warning!Bokeh rendering sample of Tamron 85mm & 70-200mm F2.8 usm ii..questions..


- so Tamron 85 on the left and Canon 70-200 on the right?
- are they both at F2.8?



Jul 16, 2016 at 09:54 AM
Sharlin
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · BIG image warning!Bokeh rendering sample of Tamron 85mm & 70-200mm F2.8 usm ii..questions..


Uh, please label the images and the subimages inside them.


Jul 16, 2016 at 10:04 AM
GabrielPhoto
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · BIG image warning!Bokeh rendering sample of Tamron 85mm & 70-200mm F2.8 usm ii..questions..


Sorry forgot to add that. Tamron are the first two photos from left to right. First at 1.8 then 2.8 then 70-200 at 2.8 is the photo on the right.


Jul 16, 2016 at 10:05 AM
Sharlin
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · BIG image warning!Bokeh rendering sample of Tamron 85mm & 70-200mm F2.8 usm ii..questions..


I think you might have a bad (eg. decentered) copy. At least Dustin Abbott loves the bokeh of the 85/1.8 SP and claims it destroys the EF 85/1.8. His sample images speak for themselves. Quoting:

The 35/45 VC lenses suffer from somewhat busy bokeh highlights. “Bokeh balls” show concentric circles within, often referred to as “bokeh balls”. The overall look of the bokeh is actually very nice, without hard edges, but when there are bright highlights in the frame the “onion” look detracts somewhat. The 85 VC has no such issue. The bokeh highlights are very smooth without any distracting busyness, and the inner line around the circle is also nice and soft, which results in a smooth real world result that, because of the soft edges, means that bokeh is not harsh or distracting. This...Show more



Jul 16, 2016 at 10:24 AM
GabrielPhoto
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · BIG image warning!Bokeh rendering sample of Tamron 85mm & 70-200mm F2.8 usm ii..questions..


Shouldn't that be visible on a landscape shot? I have some and looks sharp across the frame. Also the issue happens with some elements on the background only.
For example i took some shots against the Sony GM where they look similar without those odd elements on my previous sample.

Sharlin wrote:
I think you might have a bad (eg. decentered) copy. At least Dustin Abbott loves the bokeh of the 85/1.8 SP and claims it destroys the EF 85/1.8. His sample images speak for themselves. Quoting:





Jul 16, 2016 at 01:48 PM
garyvot
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · BIG image warning!Bokeh rendering sample of Tamron 85mm & 70-200mm F2.8 usm ii..questions..


I've been using a Tamron SP 85mm f/1.8 for the past few days and I've definitely not noticed this kind of squirrely bokeh. In fact, it's quite smooth and creamy.

But this recalls an experience I once had with an early sample of a Canon 24-105 f/4L, in which the bokeh was very busy and unattractive. I (at the time) believed this to be a characteristic of the lens, and commented on several posts here about it. I later had a chance to use different copies of this lens and discovered that my original sample (which I had returned) was simply defective (probably decentered).

I'd consider exchanging the Tammy for another copy before you make your final determination.



Jul 19, 2016 at 03:43 PM
GabrielPhoto
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · BIG image warning!Bokeh rendering sample of Tamron 85mm & 70-200mm F2.8 usm ii..questions..


garyvot wrote:
I've been using a Tamron SP 85mm f/1.8 for the past few days and I've definitely not noticed this kind of squirrely bokeh. In fact, it's quite smooth and creamy.

But this recalls an experience I once had with an early sample of a Canon 24-105 f/4L, in which the bokeh was very busy and unattractive. I (at the time) believed this to be a characteristic of the lens, and commented on several posts here about it. I later had a chance to use different copies of this lens and discovered that my original sample (which I had returned) was simply
...Show more
It does not show on every shot, in fact in some shots it was very impressive and while not up to the Sony 85mm GM level, the difference was nowhere as big as the price difference so I was very happy with it until I took more shots and those things began to show.
Do you have similar samples that you can share?
This information is very interesting and now I am curious is mine is messed up indeed.
another example



Jul 19, 2016 at 04:00 PM
Pixel Perfect
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · BIG image warning!Bokeh rendering sample of Tamron 85mm & 70-200mm F2.8 usm ii..questions..


Well there are a lot of factors that could be at play here, but let me say I've seen examples of bad bokeh like this even in superteles wide open under certain conditions.

The 70-200 design might be such that the lens goes out of focus faster outside the region of DoF, something which superteles do incredibly fast which is why they can obliterate backgrounds. However, depending on things like subject to background distance you can get this horrible region where the lens hasn't defocused fully, very noticeable with these types of busy backgrounds with fine detail, that can render very harsh.

Try different backgrounds and subject to background distances as well.



Jul 19, 2016 at 07:30 PM
rscheffler
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · BIG image warning!Bokeh rendering sample of Tamron 85mm & 70-200mm F2.8 usm ii..questions..


This is part of the learning process for each lens. For example, I have the Leica 50/1.4 Summilux-M ASPH., which is considered one of the smoothest background rendering 50s available (Otus 55 is similar, as are a couple other lenses). That said, at certain camera to subject to background ratios, the background can rendering in a very jittery manner. It's possible you're landing in a similar suboptimal ratio with the 85/1.8 in these specific test images. It's a reason to test lenses and shoot with them in a variety of situations, to get a better feel of how they perform. It's also typical for very fast lenses to have nervous bokeh quality wide open with smoother performance often achieved 1-2 stops down.

Looking at the Tamron crops, I'd be inclined to say the rendering is due in part to significant divergence of sagittal and tangential performance, but Tamron's MTFs indicate sagittal and tangential performance should remain very close over much of the frame.... It makes me a bit suspicious about this particular copy and I would be inclined to try another one as a comparison.

What areas of the frame the two sets of crops are from? Center and a corner? Please confirm with perhaps a single uncropped frame (at a reasonable size) to give us an idea of the overall scene.

Also wondering what role Tamron's image stabilization system might play in this? Was it on or off? Tripod mounted camera? For example, Leica with their new SL camera recommend that for highest image quality with the 24-90 zoom, that IS be disabled. I don't think Canon typically recommends this for general photography, but it could be dependent on lens design, IS mechanism capability, etc...

The quality of the 85's bokeh in this example might just be the way it is... but its character also reminds me of my own examples shot with decentered lenses. For example the Leica 50/1.4 again... I've had some trouble with it 'loosening up' physically, which resulted in some play in the lens body that was enough to degrade image quality. Images shot wide open had non-normal wide open rendering but by f/2-2.8 the lens looked normal again...



Jul 20, 2016 at 12:07 PM
Sharlin
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · BIG image warning!Bokeh rendering sample of Tamron 85mm & 70-200mm F2.8 usm ii..questions..


shaolin95 wrote:
another example


That looks horrible. Seems as if it has a bad problem with spherical aberration correction - the foreground looks better as expected but there's something "off" about that as well.



Jul 20, 2016 at 12:21 PM
GabrielPhoto
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · BIG image warning!Bokeh rendering sample of Tamron 85mm & 70-200mm F2.8 usm ii..questions..


rscheffler wrote:
This is part of the learning process for each lens. For example, I have the Leica 50/1.4 Summilux-M ASPH., which is considered one of the smoothest background rendering 50s available (Otus 55 is similar, as are a couple other lenses). That said, at certain camera to subject to background ratios, the background can rendering in a very jittery manner. It's possible you're landing in a similar suboptimal ratio with the 85/1.8 in these specific test images. It's a reason to test lenses and shoot with them in a variety of situations, to get a better feel of how they perform.
...Show more
Did you check my other sample of the small house (pony express) and the foliage behind it?
That is centered and I dont like it.
this is the Sony A mount version so no IS from the lens, only my camera which is the same IBIS that is in use for all my other lenses.
Perhaps it is indeed a bad copy.



Jul 20, 2016 at 03:44 PM
Robin Smith
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · BIG image warning!Bokeh rendering sample of Tamron 85mm & 70-200mm F2.8 usm ii..questions..


I doubt there is anything wrong with it. I think you just happened to find a subject/background/distance combination that works less well for the Tamron. You have pretty well said this yourself: "t does not show on every shot, in fact in some shots it was very impressive". It's not unusual to sometimes find bokeh less attractive even for the most bokelicious lens.


Jul 20, 2016 at 03:53 PM
Sorbet
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · BIG image warning!Bokeh rendering sample of Tamron 85mm & 70-200mm F2.8 usm ii..questions..


shaolin95 wrote:
Sorry forgot to add that. Tamron are the first two photos from left to right. First at 1.8 then 2.8 then 70-200 at 2.8 is the photo on the right.


I still don't understand this. There are four photos. The Tamron are both on the left, or on left and right?



Jul 20, 2016 at 10:56 PM
rscheffler
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · BIG image warning!Bokeh rendering sample of Tamron 85mm & 70-200mm F2.8 usm ii..questions..



shaolin95 wrote:
Did you check my other sample of the small house (pony express) and the foliage behind it?
That is centered and I dont like it.
this is the Sony A mount version so no IS from the lens, only my camera which is the same IBIS that is in use for all my other lenses.
Perhaps it is indeed a bad copy.


Sorry, I missed that link but have now looked at the image. By decentered, I meant something in the lens's construction being decentered, not the subject/focus point.

The linked image is difficult to analyze the plane of focus because the area of the ground that should be in focus is obscured by foreground vegetation. The plane of focus across the frame would give some indication about the quality of sharpness across the frame and if there is a possible optical decentering problem. That said, I agree aspects of that image don't look great. Wondering if it was really warm that day because some areas look like they're affected by atmospheric disturbance due to heat radiation.

Also, with this being posted in the Canon forum, my expectation was you were using the Canon mount version, which has optical stabilization, on a Canon camera... looking at the screen grabs again and the DSC file name should have suggested a non-Canon camera.

If possible I would still try another copy to compare. Maybe rent one from Lens Rentals if they stock the Sony version. Renting from them would at minimum assure the lens has gone through their quality assurance process and therefore should be a fairly representative example of the lens.



Jul 21, 2016 at 07:38 PM
GabrielPhoto
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · BIG image warning!Bokeh rendering sample of Tamron 85mm & 70-200mm F2.8 usm ii..questions..


No more mystery...Tamron customer service replied about it after looking at the samples I provided:

"That actually does look pretty normal to me. I double checked with one of our technicians here and he agreed that this seems to be OK for this lens."



Jul 22, 2016 at 09:08 AM





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