Home · Register · Join Upload & Sell

Moderated by: Fred Miranda
Username  

  New fredmiranda.com Mobile Site
  New Feature: SMS Notification alert
  New Feature: Buy & Sell Watchlist
  

FM Forums | People Photography | Join Upload & Sell

1
       2       end
  

Archive 2016 · Working on some new techniques. W/Laura

  
 
gregfixit
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Working on some new techniques. W/Laura


I recently helped my lovely bride Diane (DianeinCR) with a goddess shoot for Laura. Goddess Laura
I had a couple of ideas for doing a composite that I thought may fit the theme. It ended up being an exercise in working a heavily back-lit shot. I thought I would share 3 versions of this shot in hopes that I can get some comments on my work. As a composite it is a little over the top but it is a fantasy-based portrait.
So how does the composite look?
How does the cropped and reworked version look?
I thought I would include the original so you could get a better idea of what I started with, I put her in front of the octobox in hopes of getting something I could use.

Any feedback would be appreciated.
Greg



© gdgood photography 2016


#1 Final composite





© gdgood photography 2016


#2 reworked portrait





© gdgood photography 2016


#3 original SOOC




Jun 29, 2016 at 05:03 PM
ben egbert
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Working on some new techniques. W/Laura


Just the impressions of a not very imaginative guy, 2 works best for me. Something about the moon is not working.


Jun 29, 2016 at 09:07 PM
jzzhu1989
Offline

Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Working on some new techniques. W/Laura


I feel a big disconnection where those light beam ends. Its too uniform.

The lighting doesn't feel right for me at all, because of the pitch black edges around the moon light it sort of emphasis the point there is only one light source, from behind, leaves the front illumination seem really fake, combined with low contrast.

Maybe a silhouette may work better here, with a white reflector facing forward for the dimmest of illumination and have the light wrap around here with that large octa.

Or even have the light beams running all the way to the edge and see if that works better?

My inexperienced 2c!




Jun 29, 2016 at 11:17 PM
Paul_K
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Working on some new techniques. W/Laura


Don't know much (better: anything) on composites, but do have a few question marks as far as the 'portrait' photography aspect (which after all lies at the foundation of this picture to begin with)

I think you made life a lot harder for yourself to begin with by taking the starting picture of the model already with the (what eventually was to become the 'moon') big light at the back.

It now seems to have distracted you from what the frontal (and spill) light does to your model, especially as far as creating certain shapes and shadows is concerned, like e.g. the light that spills over her shoulders now hit the side of her chin.

She already is standing in a quite disadvantaged position (kind of hunched over, full frontal as if it's for a mugshot) and the spill that hits the side of her cheeks/chin makes it thinner, and pointy, overall creating a big head/small chin image (dare I say, a bit like an alien from area 51 )

Since the front light is/seems kind of diffused (only a reflection screen?) and under exposed, it now mainly creates a shiny nose and apple cheeks, but also not very flattering creases/shadows besides the nose, corners of her mouth, and point of her chin (which as already pointed out above is being made maybe a bit too pointy/sharp by the spill light coming from behind)

I personally would have started to make a picture of the model in the style of the 1930/40 Hollywood portraits: with a direct frontal diffused light (creating a less face with less creases/shadows, even if the latter may become somewhat harder) and effect/hair lights from behind as e.g. in this picture by
George Hurell of of Jean Harlow http://www.arraf.com/PhotoArchives/AssortedPhotos/HurrellPhotos/Harlow.jpg (sorry, tried just getting in the link, but instead it directly shows the image)
or, to keep the playfield kind of level/better balanced with regards to personal experience, an attempt by me http://www.pbase.com/paul_k/image/162193925 .

That in my experience would better help create the (intended?) 'aura' around the hair and antlers, and spill over the shoulders, although as far as the latter is concerned side without the highlights that are now shaping the chin/making now make the chin so pointy.
Since it's a composite, it IMO should be no problem with photo shopping in the 'moon'
in a later stadium.

As far as the actual picture of the model is concerned, I would shoot from a higher point of view, and ask the model to stand more straight up/taller (or as I always say to my models during my fashion shoots : Chin up, chest forward, shoulders to the back).
After all, she's to portray a goddess, not someone caught for DUI.

This change in the pose would also counter the present impression that the antlers are weighing her head down, rather then crown her as a goddess a bit like this http://www.pbase.com/paul_k/image/156109860

And I would use a longer focal length, 70mm IMO really is quite near the limit for the shortest focal length possible when shooting this kind of portrait without optical deformation (you're using a 70-200, so just zoom in and take a few steps back).

Also, but that admittedly really is a matter of personal taste, I think the sharpness of the moon, in particular the edges, vs that of the model, draws the attention away from the model.
No problem that it overpowers the model as far as light/dark is concerned, but I think the human eye is 'trained' to always first look at things in focus rather then at the ones out of focus

my 2 cents (without knowing anything relevant about composites )



Jun 30, 2016 at 03:27 AM
gregfixit
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Working on some new techniques. W/Laura


ben egbert wrote:
Just the impressions of a not very imaginative guy, 2 works best for me. Something about the moon is not working.


---------------------------------------------
Thank you Ben for taking the time to comment. Much appreciated.

---------------------------------------------

jzzhu1989 wrote:
I feel a big disconnection where those light beam ends. Its too uniform.



---------------------------------------------

Thanks zzhu1989 for your comments. You are correct, I need to make the light beams less uniform.

---------------------------------------------

Paul_K wrote:
Don't know much (better: anything) on composites, but do have a few question marks as far as the 'portrait' photography aspect (which after all lies at the foundation of this picture to begin with)

my 2 cents (without knowing anything relevant about composites )


---------------------------------------------

Thank you Paul_K for taking the time to comment. I appreciate it.




Jun 30, 2016 at 07:27 AM
jzzhu1989
Offline

Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Working on some new techniques. W/Laura


I remember a composition course that i watched,

she stated whilst a surreal composition will obviously be fake to the viewer, it is important that all element "within" that dimension should make sense. That way it invites the viewer to enter that dimension but yet their brain can still make logical connections to the reality they are used to. The key are, Depth of Field, Angle of Camera, Light Source (highlights and shadow),reflections and relative size.

She further went on to state that it is much easier to have the stock photo / background first and understand those points then shoot the subject with those restrictions in place for a easier and more seamless composition.



Jun 30, 2016 at 09:55 AM
gschlact
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Working on some new techniques. W/Laura


I like the moon composite.
Fwiw.... My critique that I think would makeall versions look better is about exposurE being too low across the board. Yes, keep the black point, but increase exposure to exposure her face properly. Then the hair/horns and moon will be higher key. Of this doesn't look good, then just fix her face exposure and leave the horns more normal than highlight. If you try any of this, please share.



Jun 30, 2016 at 10:39 AM
ben egbert
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Working on some new techniques. W/Laura


My problem with the moon is I think I want the halo behind it instead of in front. But I have changed my mind several times. Just adding another idea.


Jun 30, 2016 at 11:40 AM
gregfixit
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Working on some new techniques. W/Laura


jzzhu1989 wrote:
I remember a composition course that i watched,

she stated whilst a surreal composition will obviously be fake to the viewer, it is important that all element "within" that dimension should make sense. That way it invites the viewer to enter that dimension but yet their brain can still make logical connections to the reality they are used to. The key are, Depth of Field, Angle of Camera, Light Source (highlights and shadow),reflections and relative size.

She further went on to state that it is much easier to have the stock photo / background first and understand those points then
...Show more

---------------------------------------------

Great advice. I had a composite like this in mind when I set this up but I must admit, my brain is designed for engineering much more than art. Thanks bjzzhu1989 for the input.


---------------------------------------------

gschlact wrote:
I like the moon composite.
Fwiw.... My critique that I think would makeall versions look better is about exposurE being too low across the board. Yes, keep the black point, but increase exposure to exposure her face properly. Then the hair/horns and moon will be higher key. Of this doesn't look good, then just fix her face exposure and leave the horns more normal than highlight. If you try any of this, please share.


---------------------------------------------

Thank you gschlact for the advice. I have tried this and the result is placed below. The biggest problem for me is the coloring. I spent a great deal of time working the colors in and around the horns but that was after I added the contrast. I would love to know what you think of the rework.

---------------------------------------------

ben egbert wrote:
My problem with the moon is I think I want the halo behind it instead of in front. But I have changed my mind several times. Just adding another idea.



---------------------------------------------

Thanks for the input Ben. I tried putting the halo behind the moon and I didn't like it. I have compromised a bit by selectively blurring the moon to make it a bit more believable. What do you think?.





© gdgood photography 2016


Rework with random light beams and less contrast in horns and hair.




Jun 30, 2016 at 08:23 PM
gschlact
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Working on some new techniques. W/Laura


Greg,
My comments.
Again, fwiw.
The halo is different, but now instead of looking like it is emitting from the moon, it gives the impression that there is a light source behind the moon.I think I like it looking like it is coming out from the moon.

I don't like the lower contrast horns, they become distraction rather than feature.

The face now seems to have a bit of magenta tint,but not sure why?

I did a quick 30 second edit of the first version and can email it to you if you get me your email address.



Jun 30, 2016 at 08:44 PM
gregfixit
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Working on some new techniques. W/Laura


Go ahead and post it. I cross-posted this to People and Critique and it is quite common to share reworks in the critique forum.


Jun 30, 2016 at 08:49 PM
ben egbert
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Working on some new techniques. W/Laura


I prefer this moon. I get that the rays need to look like they are from the moon. I like the distinct rays rather than the halo look, maybe go back to in front but with rays that are very light when they are in front of the moon.




Jun 30, 2016 at 09:23 PM
gschlact
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Working on some new techniques. W/Laura


here is my quick rework.
https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-Lt8rXLW/0/O/i-Lt8rXLW.jpg

versus your original:
https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/ufiles/26/1319526.jpg



Jun 30, 2016 at 10:18 PM
jzzhu1989
Offline

Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Working on some new techniques. W/Laura


Hmmm, one quick trial if you don't mind. What if you enlarge the moon? to maybe take up nearly 3/4 of the entire photo, with the aura covering the rest of the 1/4, with the halo,that way the uniform beams edges are cropped out.

This will make your overall photo alot brighter, but i think it will lend well with the soft contrast of the model, and the extra light will make the photo not have such jarring effect (from black to soft white), but since the moon is soft in contrast, and the eyes are generally led to either the brightest or most contrasted parts it should still land back on the model.

Give it a shot, it should only be a quick change. Let me know how it looks, i love playing around with compositions! (If you are willing to supply the cropped model and the background stock/aura you want, i would love to have a shot at it and see how it turns out)

Edit* Noticed your original OOC image, try making the moon exact size of that but centered, that way you almost completely mimic reality.



Jun 30, 2016 at 10:50 PM
trevanian
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Working on some new techniques. W/Laura


One would really be sweet if she had an expression to highlight the mood. Just my 2 cents, maybe hand motion and an expression?


Jul 01, 2016 at 12:09 PM
gregfixit
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Working on some new techniques. W/Laura


gschlact wrote:
here is my quick rework.


---------------------------------------------

Thanks for the demo. It proves I can push it a bit more.

---------------------------------------------

jzzhu1989 wrote:
Hmmm, one quick trial if you don't mind. What if you enlarge the moon? to maybe take up nearly 3/4 of the entire photo, with the aura covering the rest of the 1/4, with the halo,that way the uniform beams edges are cropped out.

This will make your overall photo alot brighter, but i think it will lend well with the soft contrast of the model, and the extra light will make the photo not have such jarring effect (from black to soft white), but since the moon is soft in contrast, and the eyes are generally led to either the
...Show more

---------------------------------------------

Good Idea. See below

---------------------------------------------

trevanian wrote:
One would really be sweet if she had an expression to highlight the mood. Just my 2 cents, maybe hand motion and an expression?


---------------------------------------------

I guess I wanted a straight-on headshot but you are probably right. Thanks for the input.

---------------------------------------------




© gdgood photography 2016


Big moon rework.




Jul 01, 2016 at 08:03 PM
jzzhu1989
Offline

Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Working on some new techniques. W/Laura


Really liking the big moon, the lighting to me, makes a lot more sense.

If you layer the light beams on top of the moon, apply screen blending, colourize to the moon's colour and adjust opacity and i think that will finish the image.

For a final adjustment, i find applying a overall hue/saturation layer with a colour, re adjust opacity will make the photo very uniform.



Jul 01, 2016 at 08:55 PM
gregfixit
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · Working on some new techniques. W/Laura


jzzhu1989 wrote:
Really liking the big moon, the lighting to me, makes a lot more sense.

If you layer the light beams on top of the moon, apply screen blending, colourize to the moon's colour and adjust opacity and i think that will finish the image.

For a final adjustment, i find applying a overall hue/saturation layer with a colour, re adjust opacity will make the photo very uniform.


---------------------------------------------

I tried the remaining tips and I think I like this one quite a bit. Thank you jzzhu1989!

I want to say thanks to all who took the time to give me feedback on this post. I have enjoyed working on this composite and I have learned quite a bit. I think next time I have a chance to do something like this I will for sure give more thought to the planning beforehand and the posing while shooting.

Laura was a great sport for allowing me to take some shots of her after spending an hour in the woods working on Diane's shoot.

I'm really liking this last one and I doubt I will continue to rework this image. But if anyone has ideas and/or tips that change my mind I would love to hear them.



© gdgood photography 2016


Final ??? Rework.




Jul 01, 2016 at 09:43 PM
jzzhu1989
Offline

Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · Working on some new techniques. W/Laura


Love the final result! Its amazing what a final adjustment layer can do to make a picture look more uniform!


Jul 01, 2016 at 10:08 PM
ben egbert
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · Working on some new techniques. W/Laura


I also love the final result, good stuff. I like the larger moon and the better looking rays.


Jul 02, 2016 at 10:23 AM
1
       2       end




FM Forums | People Photography | Join Upload & Sell

1
       2       end
    
 

You are not logged in. Login or Register

Username       Or Reset password



This site is protected by reCAPTCHA and the Google Privacy Policy and Terms of Service apply.