Home · Register · Join Upload & Sell

Moderated by: Fred Miranda
Username  

  New fredmiranda.com Mobile Site
  New Feature: SMS Notification alert
  New Feature: Buy & Sell Watchlist
  

FM Forums | Leica & Alternative Gear | Join Upload & Sell

1      
2
       3       4       end
  

Archive 2016 · DSLR switch to mirrorless for pros?

  
 
RustyBug
Offline
• • • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.2 #1 · p.2 #1 · DSLR switch to mirrorless for pros?


Beg, borrow, steal (not really ) or ... rent one.

They psyche or stigma of "pro" associated to mirrorless vs. DSLR, well, pro is about how you are able to deliver the goods with the tools of your choosing.

While I'm not a fan of mirrorless bodies for myself, I do recognize their attributes both @ pro / con, so it'll be up to you to learn how those things affect you. The one thing that I might take into a bit more consideration than gets discussed much is the flash system if you plan to use flash with any significant degree. I have no experience with the Sony flash system, so I'm no help there, but it might be something to dig a little deeper into in case the Sony flash system is restrictive to your needs.

Size / weight ... it's no different than a knife, pool cue, gun, hammer, pen, phone, laptop, saw, bowling ball, golf club, tennis racquet, etc. If it fits you well such that you can have good command & control of your tool, then it's the right size / weight for you. Smaller isn't always a better fit, neither is larger. Size & weight are not the sole attributes to what constitutes a good fit. That one is 100% up to you to figure out for yourself @ what you like / don't like.



Jun 28, 2016 at 10:23 PM
JaKo
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #2 · p.2 #2 · DSLR switch to mirrorless for pros?


I really don't get this ‘Sony UI’ difficulties many poster express. I know it’s a personal experience with adopting to new things, but don’t we all get new mobile phones or computers/software once in a while, all which requires re-learning or re-adjusting?

Now, hold on before you tell me that Leica has the best, simplest interface that allows for the best, and only photographic experience {Puts}<<< Many film cameras have nearly or identical, minimalistic interfaces/buttons and for years I programmed my DSLR and mirrorless gear to minimal functions settings to mimic film cameras operational experience.

Actually, Sony A7x series allows end users to program all the functions; buttons, UI, mapping, the way THEY want, if they only pass their rigid ‘I got used to Leica’ approach, which clearly sets them apart from objective reviewers. I did use friends’ Leica M9/240 on few occasions and their IU programming functions are just not there, so kudos to Sony for providing at least some options. Many other brands provide UI programming functionality so I won’t make it L vs. S issue here.

So, back to Sony UI; I got what I wanted, and I ma happy with it. Sony FM forum is full of great images unaffected by UI operational delays.
Again, what are we talking about? How do you set up your next new mobile phone without global complaining?

Perhaps Sony experience is just not for you!



Jun 28, 2016 at 10:35 PM
Frogfish
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #3 · p.2 #3 · DSLR switch to mirrorless for pros?


Another post re. Sony UI. Can't say I love it but I have programmed the functions I use most often to buttons and most other important functions are instantly available via the rotary dial. Simple. It really shouldn't be an issue to anyone except those not happy unless it mimics their CaNikon.

The OP might want to read this too :
http://hamburg-hochzeitsfotografen.de/the-sony-a6300-for-wedding-photography/

Edited on Jun 29, 2016 at 04:16 AM · View previous versions



Jun 29, 2016 at 01:00 AM
Sorbet
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #4 · p.2 #4 · DSLR switch to mirrorless for pros?


chez wrote:
Ummm...sort of, but I just finished a 3 week trip to the SE Asia with a very compact full frame system based on a couple compact primes and a nice zoom. My DSLR outfit would have been unmanageable for 3 weeks in the heat and humidity. I cannot fathom trying to carry a 5d3 with the 24-70 2.8 lens around my neck or wrist for 3 weeks...I don't believe you would enjoy that as well. So you would be likely leaving your camera behind because it's to heavy and bulky to carry with you everywhere you go.


Canon makes some very nice compact primes too. No need for the 24-70 2.8.



Jun 29, 2016 at 02:22 AM
Sorbet
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #5 · p.2 #5 · DSLR switch to mirrorless for pros?


JaKo wrote:
I really don't get this ‘Sony UI’ difficulties many poster express. I know it’s a personal experience with adopting to new things, but don’t we all get new mobile phones or computers/software once in a while, all which requires re-learning or re-adjusting?

Now, hold on before you tell me that Leica has the best, simplest interface that allows for the best, and only photographic experience {Puts}<<< Many film cameras have nearly or identical, minimalistic interfaces/buttons and for years I programmed my DSLR and mirrorless gear to minimal functions settings to mimic film cameras operational experience.

Actually, Sony A7x series allows end users
...Show more

I can say firmly that the Sony experience is just not for me. I spent way too much time setting up the A72. By comparison, any new Canon is a model of logic and simplicity, programmed and doing what I need in much less time. Now that's partly due to my long-term familiarity with Canon, but partly due to their design choices.

Olympus is my worst UI experience. After my extensive programming, the factory service center reset everything back to defaults. Olympus menus also open with a nearly useless default screen, not the last screen you were on.



Jun 29, 2016 at 02:47 AM
justruss
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #6 · p.2 #6 · DSLR switch to mirrorless for pros?


There is no right answer, so keep in mind we can all only give your own perspectives on the matter.

I'm a 5D2 to A7rII shooter-- for professional (feature photojournalism/reportage/travel) work. I'm also a prime shooter. I also mainly shoot ~35mm and ~UWA. I don't shoot field sports. I don't shoot flying wildlife. I do shoot science, adventure, travel, culture, landscape, people. I have ZERO regrets about the switch; the quality of my work as improved as the ease of doing my work has also improved. My kit is smaller, less bulky, lighter.

OK.


But, don't take our word for it. You really need to rent, or own side-by-side. I know that it takes me months to adjust to a new camera in terms of: ergonomics, workflow, processing, color, the camera fading into the background. It was no different from Canon to Sony as it was Canon to Fuji, or film to digital. For me. Similar to staying with the same camera but switching to new processing software.

As happy as I am with the switch, plenty of others haven't been (Sorbet, for one). I'd never, ever recommend a wholesale change without a ton of research (what lens + flash systems do you anticipate using, specifically, with the new system, and how does their weight/advantages/disadvantages/size/cost work out for you), and as much hands-on as you can get.

In all my transitions, I've owned my cameras side-by-side for months. I'm not putting my clients through an abrupt switch during which I don't know if I'm going to go all the way, and I'm not getting the best out of the new gear. I'm going to smoothly transition until I'm certain-- and my output and reliability is as good or better than what it was with the old kit.

I think if you have to ask the forum IF you should switch rather than what to expect-- you shouldn't switch! You should continue investigating, and aim to get firsthand experience with the potential new system and the files it produces.



Jun 29, 2016 at 04:26 AM
gdanmitchell
Offline
• • • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #7 · p.2 #7 · DSLR switch to mirrorless for pros?


^^^ The flash issue may be the most critical one, at least with Fujifilm.

Also, while I think asking a forum for thoughts on the pluses and minuses of a switch (or augmentation?) is worthwhile, eventually one simply has to try it. Going into a camera store and playing with the camera isn't enough — you need to use it in real world photography enough to start to train your instincts for the different camera and get to know its ins and outs.

For most folks who are wondering (and who don't have tons of money to throw at the question by just purchasing a full second system), it can be useful to start small. Get an inexpensive mirrorless camera – perhaps a model from year or two ago — and one or two lenses and shoot the darned thing.

Good luck,

Dan



Jun 29, 2016 at 07:54 AM
CMcG01
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #8 · p.2 #8 · DSLR switch to mirrorless for pros?


gdanmitchell wrote:
Options: Don't post. Use a pseudonym and post thoughtlessly. Use your real name and post responsibly, speaking in ways that won't embarrass you. :-)

Dan


This is another option many prefer:
Use a pseudonym and post responsibly, speaking in ways that won't embarrass you.



Jun 29, 2016 at 10:20 AM
chez
Offline
• • • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #9 · p.2 #9 · DSLR switch to mirrorless for pros?


CMcG01 wrote:
This is another option many prefer:
Use a pseudonym and post responsibly, speaking in ways that won't embarrass you.


Yes...I've seen plenty posts by people who use their real name and still embarrass themselves to the point they need to delete their post.



Jun 29, 2016 at 10:34 AM
gdanmitchell
Offline
• • • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #10 · p.2 #10 · DSLR switch to mirrorless for pros?


CMcG01 wrote:
This is another option many prefer:
Use a pseudonym and post responsibly, speaking in ways that won't embarrass you.


Ha!

If one posts responsibly, one should take full credit. On the other hand, if one too often posts stuff that tries to insult others, one may need to use a cheesy pseudonym so that friends and relatives don't get embarrassed! :-)



Jun 29, 2016 at 11:04 PM
CMcG01
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #11 · p.2 #11 · DSLR switch to mirrorless for pros?


This is so OT that I don't want to get to far into it, but it's a topic that comes up here and other forums with an implication that if you don't use your real name you are inherently irresponsible or something.

I do agree that if everybody acted online as they would in person, it would be a better place, but you can do that with a pseudonym, too.😁



Jun 30, 2016 at 09:00 AM
gdanmitchell
Offline
• • • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #12 · p.2 #12 · DSLR switch to mirrorless for pros?


I would not say that using pseudonyms makes all people irresponsible. However, it tends to encourage those who are inclined toward irresponsible and inflammatory posts to loosen their boundaries in ways that are not very good and which have been know to poison entire discussions.

(I saw an analogous statement on another topic today. It had to do with the old maxim about power corrupting. The suggestion was that power itself doesn't automatically makes people bad, but that people who are corruptible are attracted to power. There is a similar meme going around in the UK right now. It suggests that not all Leave supporters are racists, but that the passage of Leave has given those who are racists permission to do and say things they've otherwise kept in check.)

Anyway, I don't have any illusions that we'll do away with pseudonymous postings any time soon... And you are right, it is OT. ;-)

Take care,

Dan



Jun 30, 2016 at 10:59 AM
chez
Offline
• • • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #13 · p.2 #13 · DSLR switch to mirrorless for pros?


And now back to the actual topic of this thread...try to get it back on track.

It's obvious any camera can be uses by a professional. But, some cameras are better suited for certain types of photography so I think it's very misleading telling someone a certain camera can be used to shoot weddings when it might not be the best choice. I think it is responsible to point out some pitfalls using certain cameras and not sight a couple Internet blogs that use said camera.

Sure I can shoot BIF with my A7R...and by chance I can get a good shot and post it here claiming the A7R is capable of shooting BIF...but doing so would be very misleading, especially for people new to the camera.



Jun 30, 2016 at 11:26 AM
BSPhotog
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.2 #14 · p.2 #14 · DSLR switch to mirrorless for pros?


This thread is interesting, but seems to be deviating from the point. The OP is satisfied with her 5DII performance-wise, but is just flirting with the idea of a lighter system, while also being concerned about not looking the part of a professional without a huge camera.

My thoughts:
1) Lenses are the bulkier part of a camera system. Many are as big or bigger than the body and you probably have more lenses than cameras. Lens size is the same between mirrorless and DSLR cameras (less a negligible bit for the flange distance). What does determine lens size is sensor size. Want a smaller/lighter system? Get a smaller sensor.

2) 5DII is full frame, but quite old (8 years!). If the OP doesn't want to shoot everything with a paper thin DOF, then most of the APS-C & M43 mirrorless options will be the same or better on ISO performance and probably similar on IQ (lots of variables, but speaking generally).

3) Build. The 5D is a solid camera designed for professional use. This is not the case for many mirrorless cameras. Olympus OM-D E-M1, Fuji XT-1 & X-Pro2, Panasonic GH4 are the only ones that I can think of that might be considered of even close to the same build quality.

4) Function. Specifically, does the body have AF performance to match your use? How are the ergonomics and controls? Does the camera have dual card slots (a necessity for me if shooting weddings)? What is the lens lineup like? How does the camera interact with existing lighting gear or other accessories?

There have been a few replies mentioning the Sony A7xxx cameras. IMO, Sony is a tech company, not a camera company. They make beautiful image sensors and consumer electronics (along with some kooky proprietary stuff that never catches on), but that is no replacement for the R&D and experience that dedicated camera companies have from their decades of work in the industry. The A7 cameras have great sensors, but simply aren't going to give the OP the thing she is looking for: A lighter camera system. The lenses will be as big or in some cases bigger (Sony G lenses). The body would shave about a 1/3 of it's weight (640g vs 950g), but the OP would loose weather sealing & build quality, a change in ergonomics, battery life, and dual card slots. Yes, there would be a gain in IQ and resolution (assuming an A7RI/II), but that isn't her stated objective.

To the final point of the OP, will she still look like a professional? Sure. If you are confident in what you're doing and making good images, that's what matters. Your images and demeanor say a lot more about your professionalism than the size of the camera you're holding.

A good read from the wedding forum here: https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1437415



Jun 30, 2016 at 12:49 PM
gdanmitchell
Offline
• • • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #15 · p.2 #15 · DSLR switch to mirrorless for pros?


I'm largely with you when it comes to the things that you recommend our OP (and others considering the same question) should look at. Things I agree with:

1. The point about lens size and bulk. If one wants a significant weight/bulk reduction, it probably needs to go beyond the smaller change brought about by the smaller and lighter body alone. And this leads to some questions about what sort of lenses one plans to use.

2. While I like full frame (and DSLR) for similar work, I agree that the best of the smaller-sensor cameras today can produce excellent quality — more than enough for many wedding photography needs. (There are outliers at both ends of the spectrum, given that wedding photography covers a fair amount of stylistic ground. I recently saw excellent work done by one photographer whose "thing" is to shoot entire weddings with a single prime lens. I've also seen others who use multiple photographers, a wide range of equipment, and more.)

3. I'm only partially in agreement with you on the build issue. I agree the the cameras you list are sufficiently solid cameras for such work, but I certainly wouldn't rule out a number of others — and I would not rule out the Sony A7rii-type cameras either. (That said, your point about lenses and the goal of reducing system size and weight is important — unless the photographer wants to go retro and work with small, manual lenses.)

4. Your points about functionality are critical. For example, with the Fujifilm (a system I like a lot) photographers who rely on various types of electronic flash had better check ahead of time to see how they'll replicate that. The AF question is also one to think through carefully. Some mirrorless systems are now sufficiently accurate and fast with AF for such work, though DSLR systems still are better as a breed — so it becomes a question of which compromises play out best for the individual photographer.

Dan

BSPhotog wrote:
This thread is interesting, but seems to be deviating from the point. The OP is satisfied with her 5DII performance-wise, but is just flirting with the idea of a lighter system, while also being concerned about not looking the part of a professional without a huge camera.

My thoughts:
1) Lenses are the bulkier part of a camera system. Many are as big or bigger than the body and you probably have more lenses than cameras. Lens size is the same between mirrorless and DSLR cameras (less a negligible bit for the flange distance). What does determine lens size is
...Show more



Jun 30, 2016 at 01:17 PM
Frogfish
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #16 · p.2 #16 · DSLR switch to mirrorless for pros?


chez wrote:
And now back to the actual topic of this thread...try to get it back on track.

It's obvious any camera can be uses by a professional. But, some cameras are better suited for certain types of photography so I think it's very misleading telling someone a certain camera can be used to shoot weddings when it might not be the best choice. I think it is responsible to point out some pitfalls using certain cameras and not sight a couple Internet blogs that use said camera.

Sure I can shoot BIF with my A7R...and by chance I can get a good
...Show more
I think that's a little disingenuous Chez. I'm assuming you not only didn't read the full blog but didn't check out his website for samples of his excellent wedding shots (including some with obvious flash use).
The blog I linked to is for a wedding shooter who explains why he's now shooting with Sonys (6300) over his DSLRs and shows his full kit (including flash setup). He also explains what shots he's getting now that he couldn't before with his DSLR kit.

it's a counter argument to the DSLR one. It might not be what you or I would choose but it's wrong to invalidate his results in such an offhand manner. And the simile given of BIF is spurious to say the least.



Jun 30, 2016 at 06:32 PM
airfrogusmc
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #17 · p.2 #17 · DSLR switch to mirrorless for pros?


A little different but I switched from all Canon (sold everything, even the 200 2L) and went all Leica M. I picked up a Leica M Monochrom and a 35 1.4 Summilux FLE 3 1/2 years ago and really fell back in love with Leica M. So I picked up a new M 262 and a gently used M-E and have a 24 Elmarit, 35 Biogon C, 35 Summilux (already mentioned) a 75 Summarit and still have and love the M Monochrom.

I do not shoot weddings or family portraits. I do shoot commercial/advertising and a lot of my work is environmental and formal portraits, events, but mostly images used in advertising of all kinds.

I have absolutely no regrets. I was getting so tired of the direction the big two were continuing to move. I prefer less automation and rangefinders really work well with the way I see and work.



Jun 30, 2016 at 07:53 PM
JohnJ
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #18 · p.2 #18 · DSLR switch to mirrorless for pros?


The 5d2 is a nice camera but i prefer the image quality from an a7r2 and prefer to use the a7r2 for most photography. From a pro perspective dust is too big a problem with mirrorless bodies, especially when there are hundreds of images to post process, so i would always use a dslr in that case.


Jun 30, 2016 at 11:47 PM
Sorbet
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #19 · p.2 #19 · DSLR switch to mirrorless for pros?


airfrogusmc wrote:
A little different but I switched from all Canon (sold everything, even the 200 2L) and went all Leica M. I picked up a Leica M Monochrom and a 35 1.4 Summilux FLE 3 1/2 years ago and really fell back in love with Leica M. So I picked up a new M 262 and a gently used M-E and have a 24 Elmarit, 35 Biogon C, 35 Summilux (already mentioned) a 75 Summarit and still have and love the M Monochrom.

I do not shoot weddings or family portraits. I do shoot commercial/advertising and a lot of my work
...Show more

Leica is the only mirrorless I would switch to, but it's too much dinero even for a basic kit. And with their very lengthy service times, I'd need a minimum of 4 or 5 camera bodies and 7 or 8 lenses just to be sure I had enough in working order.



Jul 01, 2016 at 12:45 AM
Sorbet
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #20 · p.2 #20 · DSLR switch to mirrorless for pros?


Frogfish wrote:
Another post re. Sony UI. Can't say I love it but I have programmed the functions I use most often to buttons and most other important functions are instantly available via the rotary dial. Simple. It really shouldn't be an issue to anyone except those not happy unless it mimics their CaNikon.

The OP might want to read this too :
http://hamburg-hochzeitsfotografen.de/the-sony-a6300-for-wedding-photography/


They are excellent photographers, and that blog post has some good insights and comparisons. I just wish they showed more actual examples of the A6300 being so good for candid wedding photography. The exif on some of those pics shows A7 or A7S, not A6300. Now the A7 and A7S are mirrorless too. But the post is about the A6300 being "near perfect" for wedding photography.



Jul 01, 2016 at 12:57 AM
1      
2
       3       4       end




FM Forums | Leica & Alternative Gear | Join Upload & Sell

1      
2
       3       4       end
    
 

You are not logged in. Login or Register

Username       Or Reset password



This site is protected by reCAPTCHA and the Google Privacy Policy and Terms of Service apply.