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Archive 2016 · What I want from Canon: More TS-E

  
 
splathrop
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · What I want from Canon: More TS-E


I often shoot seascapes, using the 5DS R. I strive for a razor-sharp-everywhere look (from foreground corners to the horizon), beautiful light, and a large print.

Using live view, that camera body is spectacularly well-suited to the task. My favorite lens is the venerable 90mm TS-E. I like it especially because the image quality at F/5.6 is quite good, and because its field of view is sufficiently restricted to (often) fill the frame with the best light available. That match-the-lens-field-to-the-good-light ability is critical if you shoot toward the light, as I usually do. (It matters less if the light source is behind the camera.) Also, the improved f/stop flexibility (because tilt delivers depth of field at any f/stop) TS-E lenses can deliver is a great feature when shooting moving water, because it lets me choose a shutter speed to get the right look from moving waves and spray, in a broad range of conditions. So when nature delivers the right light, distributed optimally to match the field of the old 90mm TS-E, that camera body and lens combination is near-perfect.

Unfortunately, the 90 TS-E is no match for the more-recent wide TS-Es in terms of flexibility and ergonomics. The tilt control-knob in particular is too small for easy precision adjustment. And you have to choose to lock the shift capability either in line with the tilt, or perpendicular to it, with no freedom during a shoot (as on the newer TS-E lenses) to choose for both functions which orientations to use together.

It strikes me that Canon has an under-used market segment opportunity (for work like I do), which it could exploit using the 5DS R, its existing great live view technology, and tilt-shift lenses. It already leads the market in all those features. Why not expand, by adding new, updated TS-E lenses?

If Canon made them, I would buy updated TS-E lenses, with features and controls to match the 24mm TS-E, and image quality to match (or better) the 90mm TS-E, in the following focal lengths:

45mm;

65mm;

90mm;

120 mm;

160 mm.

That would give me a bag full of lenses to usefully match with a TS-E lens most light distributions which conditions present. That capability does not now exist anywhere. Canon seems to have all the technology in place now to deliver it. So that's what I want. If it would help keep the prices reasonable (the 24mm TS-E seems quite reasonable), I would be content with f/4 for all of them. If Canon could make an f/2.8 TS-E lens which delivered extreme sharpness and great contrast right into foreground corners, and all the way to the horizon, then so much the better. I would pay plenty for that, because many of my best opportunities are low-light.



Jun 09, 2016 at 03:36 AM
melcat
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · What I want from Canon: More TS-E


I've been wondering for years why the 90 TS-E hasn't been updated.

But I have to say as an owner of the 24 TS-E Mk II that actually I am less than impressed with its ergonomics. It may be that they've been brainstorming various improved designs and that's the reason for the delay.

Or it's simply that the market is too small. Probably only a small minority of photographers even understand the purpose of camera/lens movements, and that's only going to get worse now that large format is no longer common.

I'd also like to see weather sealing. If Honda can weather seal a CV joint screaming down the motorway, Canon should be able to manage it for the TS lenses.





Jun 09, 2016 at 06:09 AM
jcolwell
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · What I want from Canon: More TS-E


You should get a Mirex T-S adapter and browse the excellent Mamiya 645 and Pentax 645 lenses that are available. I use Canon TS-E 17/4L and 24/3.5L II, as well as a Mirex adapter with Mamiya 645 C 55/2.8 N, C 80/2.8 N, and A 150/2.8 lenses. The TS-E 24/3.5L II + 1.4x III is better than the Mamiya 645 C 35/3.5 N, and so I'm selling that one. At infinity focus and f/8, the M645 55/2.8 N, 80/2.8 N, and A 150/2.8 are as good as or better than any of "the best" lenses in their focal lengths, including; Zeiss 50/2 ZE, EF 24-70/2.8L II, and EF 70-200/2.8L IS II.

Here's a recent thread with tons of Mirex links,

Tilt shift for landscapes, essential? https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1393526/0#13252324



Jun 09, 2016 at 06:16 AM
FLSTCSAM
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · What I want from Canon: More TS-E


jcolwell wrote:
You should get a Mirex T-S adapter and browse the excellent Mamiya 645 and Pentax 645 lenses that are available. I use Canon TS-E 17/4L and 24/3.5L II, as well as a Mirex adapter with Mamiya 645 C 55/2.8 N, C 80/2.8 N, and A 150/2.8 lenses. The TS-E 24/3.5L II + 1.4x III is better than the Mamiya 645 C 35/3.5 N, and so I'm selling that one. At infinity focus and f/8, the M645 55/2.8 N, 80/2.8 N, and A 150/2.8 are as good as or better than any of "the best" lenses in their focal lengths, including;
...Show more

Can you confirm the 1.4x III is compatible with the TS-E 24mm 3.5 II?

Canon does not list this lens as being compatible with the extender.

Thank,

Sam



Jun 09, 2016 at 11:07 AM
jcolwell
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · What I want from Canon: More TS-E


FLSTCSAM wrote:
Can you confirm the 1.4x III is compatible with the TS-E 24mm 3.5 II?

Canon does not list this lens as being compatible with the extender.

Thank,

Sam


Yes. It's compatible with both the TS-E 17/4 L and 24/3.5 L II.



Jun 09, 2016 at 11:15 AM
gdanmitchell
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · What I want from Canon: More TS-E


I'm betting that Canon simply cannot justify making so many variations on a type of lens that doesn't sell a ton of copies.

Dan



Jun 09, 2016 at 11:24 AM
jcolwell
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · What I want from Canon: More TS-E


I expect we'll see updates for the TS-E 45/2.8 and TS-E 90/2.8 within a couple of years. If they produce new L-series versions, I'd consider replacing some of my M645 lenses, assuming the new ones have uncoupled tilt and shift axes. The Mirex does not.


Jun 09, 2016 at 11:35 AM
Fast6
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · What I want from Canon: More TS-E


FLSTCSAM wrote:
Can you confirm the 1.4x III is compatible with the TS-E 24mm 3.5 II?

Canon does not list this lens as being compatible with the extender.

Thank,

Sam


Compatible, but increased distortion. Can be quite difficult to correct if used for architecture. Less of an issue for landscape.



Jun 09, 2016 at 01:28 PM
Peter Figen
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · What I want from Canon: More TS-E


The 90 t/s-e, while being a great lens, is really showing its age when shifted on a 5DSR. A full horizontal shift on a horizontal frame is pretty weak at the edges, but the center is fabulously sharp. I'd love to see what they do optically with an updated 90 and 45 with blue refractive optics as well. I'd also love to see them bring back the 35 t/s, updated of course. I've been using the Zeiss 35mm PC, which is very good, but shift only. The Zeiss is still good at a full 13mm of shift at f/11.


Jun 09, 2016 at 01:52 PM
ShutterbugJ
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · What I want from Canon: More TS-E


I loved my 90mm TS-E, but for the type of work I do there wasn't a lot of advantage to it over my Lensbaby Composer Pro with 80mm optic. It's the lens that I miss most, but cannot justify, as I only miss it when I think about it, and not while shooting. I hope that Canon releases an updated version, but don't see that happening as a for-sure thing.

The 24mm TS-E is a much more "important" focal length for the TS-E, as it's used for architecture (I use it a lot), whereas the 90 TS-E is much more of an "art" lens and used for very specific applications such as yours.



Jun 09, 2016 at 03:40 PM
EB-1
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · What I want from Canon: More TS-E


Peter Figen wrote:
The 90 t/s-e, while being a great lens, is really showing its age when shifted on a 5DSR. A full horizontal shift on a horizontal frame is pretty weak at the edges, but the center is fabulously sharp. I'd love to see what they do optically with an updated 90 and 45 with blue refractive optics as well. I'd also love to see them bring back the 35 t/s, updated of course. I've been using the Zeiss 35mm PC, which is very good, but shift only. The Zeiss is still good at a full 13mm of shift at f/11.
...Show more

I'd also like to see a 35 TSE for use on the 5DsR and beyond. I don't use my Zeiss 35 anymore.

EBH



Jun 10, 2016 at 07:37 PM
retrofocus
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · What I want from Canon: More TS-E


I have no intention to upgrade to a potential newer 90 TSE version. I upgraded from the 24/3.5 TSE version I to version II, and the newer version has much less vignetting when shifted. But I dislike the plastic knobs on the lens barrel and the huge lens size itself. The 90/2.8 TSE lens is just right in size, I like its built style with metal housing, too. I agree that the free rotation of the shift/tilt functions is advantageous in the version II of the 24/3.5 lens, but I rarely use this function. I have shift/tilt nearly always in line with each other. The original setting in version I TSE lenses is perpendicular, so I had to manually rotate part of the 90/2.8 TSE lens housing 90 degrees one time to have shift/tilt in line to each other.

I don't see any drawbacks of the 90/2.8 TSE on my higher MP FF sensor in the A7R. Another big advantage of the current version is its great performance in infrared. Not sure how a newer version would turn out to perform in IR.



Jun 11, 2016 at 02:07 AM
Peter Figen
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · What I want from Canon: More TS-E


Aside from the much improved optics of the two newer series lenses, a hugely important feature is the lockout tab for the tilt/swing mechanism. The center detent on the older lenses just isn't precise enough for super accurate lens alignment on the newer high resolution cameras. Often just having that tab disengaged is enough to through one side out of focus. It's that critical. And as good as the 90 is, it's still in need of substantial improvement if you plan on using the full shift toward the edge of the image circle. I think the knobs on the older lenses are much worse, especially when you have to crank them down so tight to get them to truly lock. I will welcome the new lenses when they finally arrive, although I really don't want them both at the same time.

On a side note, the person I rent studio space from just sprang for the Schneider 28mm PC off eBay today. They can't have sold very many when it was originally priced at something like $8K. It was down to just over four grand, which is less that the $5K that Schneider USA was trying to off them for last year. I can't wait to try that out and see, not that I'd ever buy one, but I've never seen a meaningful review or even heard of anyone actually owning one.



Jun 11, 2016 at 04:30 AM
retrofocus
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · What I want from Canon: More TS-E


Peter Figen wrote:
Aside from the much improved optics of the two newer series lenses, a hugely important feature is the lockout tab for the tilt/swing mechanism. The center detent on the older lenses just isn't precise enough for super accurate lens alignment on the newer high resolution cameras. Often just having that tab disengaged is enough to through one side out of focus. It's that critical. And as good as the 90 is, it's still in need of substantial improvement if you plan on using the full shift toward the edge of the image circle. I think the knobs on the
...Show more

I am aware that preferences aren't the same for everyone, but since you mention the lockout tab, I find it a pain in the neck. I never had an issue with my old 24 TSE version I lens to have it accurately fixed in its zero position. Now with the new 24 TSE lens, it is always a try&error to put this plastic lockout button back in its lock position. I can see its advantage, but for me personally this button has no benefit. I agree with you that the newer TSE 24 mm lens has better optics, but the built style of the older lens barrels with the buttons was much better IMO.



Jun 11, 2016 at 06:40 AM
johnctharp
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · What I want from Canon: More TS-E


Honestly, I looked at Schneider's designs, and think Canon could learn a bit from them in getting their TS lenses closer to the flexibility of lenses on technical cameras.


Jun 11, 2016 at 07:35 AM
jcolwell
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · What I want from Canon: More TS-E


johnctharp wrote:
Honestly, I looked at Schneider's designs, and think Canon could learn a bit from them in getting their TS lenses closer to the flexibility of lenses on technical cameras.


Sure. OTOH, the prices for the Canon lenses would go up a lot if they were built to the Schneuder specs.



Jun 11, 2016 at 10:07 AM
Mike Tuomey
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · What I want from Canon: More TS-E


I'd be satisfied with an updated 45 TSE, which would round out my current 24 II and 90 setup. Modest request, I hope Canon agrees.


Jun 11, 2016 at 04:25 PM
Pixel Perfect
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · What I want from Canon: More TS-E


I'm waiting eagerly for the CR3 of the new Canon EF 24-85 f/3.5 TS-E 0.5:1 macro


Jun 11, 2016 at 04:53 PM
EB-1
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · What I want from Canon: More TS-E


jcolwell wrote:
Sure. OTOH, the prices for the Canon lenses would go up a lot if they were built to the Schneuder specs.


$10K for a 28mm? Do they make literally dozens of them per year?
That is not even dealing with the large lens size and weight. I'm already carrying a heavy enough load in the field.

EBH



Jun 11, 2016 at 04:58 PM
johnctharp
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · What I want from Canon: More TS-E


jcolwell wrote:
Sure. OTOH, the prices for the Canon lenses would go up a lot if they were built to the Schneuder specs.


EB-1 wrote:
$10K for a 28mm? Do they make literally dozens of them per year?
That is not even dealing with the large lens size and weight. I'm already carrying a heavy enough load in the field.

EBH


I wouldn't expect them to go as far as Schneider did; Canon could find ways to imitate, possibly improve, the independent tilt and shift functions while reducing size, weight, and likely cost.



Jun 11, 2016 at 10:18 PM
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