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Archive 2016 · How do you feel about the durability/lifetime of your mirrorless kit

  
 
Sener
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · How do you feel about the durability/lifetime of your mirrorless kit


Hi,

You know, back in DSLR time the bodies and lenses were like tanks - it seemed like a Canon 40D, Nikon D300, a 24-70, an 85mm 1.4 high end lens would keep ticking forever and defy time, if it didn't encounter a Mjolnir blow.

The SLRs and their lenses, more so.

And there is the subject of timelessness; since there were less bodies and lenses back then, one could use the same camera or lens for many years without needing to replace them. This is also more so for the SLR era when it was quite normal to use an SLR body for 15 years.

But what now? Sony, Fuji, Olympus owners, how do you feel about your your kit in terms of the two criteria above?

Do you see yourself still using that mirrorless body, mirrorless lens, i.e. 10 years into the future and not need to replace it? Will you be seeing a Sony A7 somewhere in the corner when you open your equipment closet? Do you see your grandchildren (if you haven't got any yet) playing with them?

I personally cannot visualise such scenario. Maybe, just maybe an Olympus E-M5. This body instills some kind of a timeless-iconic feel. I won't be surprised to see this body around, well, 5 years into the future. And maybe a Fuji X-Pro1. Just like you do not get surprised when you still see Nikon D3 users around. But it is still a faint feeling with these two.

Most mirrorrless equipment on the market, bodies and lenses alike, do not give that feeling to me. They feel like they'll be used maybe 2-3 years, and then with another technological breakthrough they will become obsolete. Or its service life will be over after 3 years, it'll wear down and become unusable.

What are your ideas?



Jun 04, 2016 at 04:10 AM
Kit Laughlin
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · How do you feel about the durability/lifetime of your mirrorless kit


Sener, these days I do not buy cameras with timelessness in mind; not so when I bought my first pair of Nikon F2As, with the Photomic heads. I did use them daily for 10 years or more, and bought very few new lenses in that time, too.

I have a Fuji X-E2 with the 27/2.8 these days, but it's a little plastic and metal wonder that goes with me everywhere. Since I stopped shooting professionally a couple of years ago, I sold all the Nikon gear (a D3 and a D3s) and lenses. I don't miss them, but as bodies, they felt similarly timeless and rugged (though few pros keep camera bodies 10 years or more these days, though they will last that long, unless you're a pro sports shooter).

I don't think mirrorless FF will be obsolete in 2–3 years; in fact they have not matured, IMHO. If Pentax-Ricoh come out with a mirrorless version of the K-1, that could be around for many years. But, overall, it's more a use-and-dispose world these days, and the internet (and cell phones/laptops/tablets) have all contributed to people's expectations that newer and better is actually better.



Jun 04, 2016 at 06:06 AM
bdickers
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · How do you feel about the durability/lifetime of your mirrorless kit


I think my Olympus PEN F will be viable for a few years, maybe not ten, but I doubt it will be worn out, just out-dated.


Jun 04, 2016 at 07:01 AM
millsart
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · How do you feel about the durability/lifetime of your mirrorless kit


I've got m4/3 lens I've had for probably close to 8 years. Don't remember exactly when I first bought them. Still work fine.

Probably would of been able to have kept the bodies too, but technology has advanced and newer ones offer much better IQ, features etc.

Obsolete is a relative term per the user though, not so much the camera. Not like a Nex5 from Sony or Panny GF1 can't still take pictures as well as the day its come out, its just the most users now want A7rII's and the like



Jun 04, 2016 at 08:30 AM
telyt
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · How do you feel about the durability/lifetime of your mirrorless kit


I'm more interested in the photographs I make with the camera than in whether the camera will be usable in 10 years.


Jun 04, 2016 at 08:42 AM
dthrog00
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · How do you feel about the durability/lifetime of your mirrorless kit


Technology seems to pass equipment by much sooner than it fails.

I've been using the same DSLRs for ~ 3 1/2 years and ~ 5 years (6D / 60D). Both are technology wise quite long in the tooth and lack capabilities when comparing with what the Joneses are using.

Given I have about 5-6K shutter clicks a year they should be operational for many more years, but they may not be technologically viable.

Dave



Jun 04, 2016 at 09:02 AM
Tariq Gibran
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · How do you feel about the durability/lifetime of your mirrorless kit


I wonder if the lead-free solder used in any of our current gadgets means that none of us need worry about using anything for ten years...but then I guess this shorter lifecycle works well with the planned obsolescence and lack of long term support current equipment sees anyway. I suppose one way to look at it is that now the actual camera is the consumable whereas in the past, it was the film.

Anyway, I'm somewhat surprised that my A7r works whenever I press the shutter and probably will not be shocked when one day I press that shutter and nothing happens. Certainly that is different than with any pre-digital camera I have used, but then we all have our backup camera(s), right?



Jun 04, 2016 at 09:24 AM
gdanmitchell
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · How do you feel about the durability/lifetime of your mirrorless kit


With your starting assumption, I think you may be confusing old-school film SLR cameras with the cameras of "DSLR time." I've used both, and it is my impression that many of the more modern DSLRs can be less durable than the SLRs of old, and that we don't expect them to last as long, given that they are built around technology that evolves much more quickly than that of film-era cameras.

So, with my presumptions that DSLRs are not generally more long lasting than, how do they compare to mirrorless cameras? I'm afraid my sample size is small — two Fujifilm XE1 cameras and their lenses (and more recently a X-Pro2).

The Fujifilm cameras gave me no technical problems whatsoever over a three-year period. (I know... three years is not very long, but mirrorless cameras aren't a very old breed yet.) They seem to be pretty straightforward functional cameras without too many bells and whistles. The XPro2 (way too soon to judge its durability!) seems, if anything, to be potentially stronger in this regard, though I sometimes wonder how the hybrid viewfinder will wear over the long term.

The fact that the Fujifilm cameras' designs are modeled on classic film cameras might be a clue.

Dan

Sener wrote:
Hi,

You know, back in DSLR time the bodies and lenses were like tanks - it seemed like a Canon 40D, Nikon D300, a 24-70, an 85mm 1.4 high end lens would keep ticking forever and defy time, if it didn't encounter a Mjolnir blow.

The SLRs and their lenses, more so.

And there is the subject of timelessness; since there were less bodies and lenses back then, one could use the same camera or lens for many years without needing to replace them. This is also more so for the SLR era when it was quite normal to use an SLR body
...Show more



Jun 04, 2016 at 09:44 AM
arduluth
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · How do you feel about the durability/lifetime of your mirrorless kit


My A7 flew off the roof of my moving car. Other than a mushy trash key, a few scuffs, and a dent on the lens it's as good as new. 40k on the shutter, just rolled over.

My NEX 5R is a much smaller and lighter camera. Still works great after 3 years, though it's had a lot less use over the last year.

No complaints from me, at least not with the equipment I'm using.

Edited on Jun 04, 2016 at 01:18 PM · View previous versions



Jun 04, 2016 at 09:54 AM
uhoh7
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · How do you feel about the durability/lifetime of your mirrorless kit


M9/M240 and their variants will be used long in to the future.

Every Sony product I've owned and used hard failed. My A7 so far has not, but I am much more gentle with it than the M9.

Now that I've done the Kolari thing, I do use the A7 alot and it's output is very good. I would use it a long time, but I am not confident it will make it ten years



Jun 04, 2016 at 10:18 AM
garydavidjones
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · How do you feel about the durability/lifetime of your mirrorless kit


I own several Canon cameras and numerous Canon and Sigma lenses which I share
with my wife. Retired, we travel extensively (100 + countries so far) and belong to botanical gardens, Huntington Library and gardens, LA Zoo, etc. where we use the above equipment.

My wife several years ago complained about how 5D2 plus lenses was too heavy. Bought Sony Nex 5. Amazing gadget with a zoom lenses. Stopped working during warranty. Repaired for free. Then died totally a year or so later. $1800 for lens and camera wasted
for short-term usage.

These mirrorless are NOT durable. They're toys.

I put a Canon 50 mm 1.8 lens on our seven-year-old Canon 5D2 which is still working fine.
Wife is happy with the weight. No more toys.



Jun 04, 2016 at 10:32 AM
TheEmrys
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · How do you feel about the durability/lifetime of your mirrorless kit


The longevity of dslr's has more to do with the glacial pace of development. Nikon has learned from this. Canon has not yet, though they have stated they need to shorten their refresh cycle. For example, if one wanted the update of the 6D or 5DIII, the only option is moving to the high mp 5ds/r and dealing with the poorer high ISO performance.

Olympus is still in a bit slower in their cycle. But Sony, Fuji, and Panasonic are all in more rapid release schedules.

Reason being, I believe, is that the Canon and Nikon were heavily tied to their successful slr pattern. However, to change the look of images required simple changes of film. The changes that brought about the now-standard pasm took decades. Physical limitations made high speed fps highly expensive and specialized.

Today, we are getting all sorts of technological jumps. Increases in DR, color accuracy, af speed and accuracy, and high ISO sensitivity are all within technological reach.

Mirrorless is a fresh technology that has so much areas to improve because of the technological advantages that are inherent to morrorless. Because it is new, rapid release cycles demonstrate the continued maturation of the technology.

Howver, in terms of mirrorless and longevity, I have less concern on that than a host of other question marks. Truly, what can go wrong? The mechanical shutter or the internal electronics. Some say an articulating screen causes a higher point of failure, but I have yet to hear of anyone that has had an issue. I am sure it has happened, but is statistically insignificant. But how long can one be satisfied with technology that is obsolete? Depends on the "one." And for sure, Fuji pushes the boundaries of supporting old technology. Sony sure doesn't. But then, they release new (and highly improved) products at a never before seen pace.

As an aside, I heard an interesting article on NPR that the measure of current t technological success is a willingness to canabalize your own products. Apple did it with the iPod and the iPhone. Sony did it with the A mount with the release of the E mount. Its an interesting thought. It remains to be seen if Canon and Nikon will.



Jun 04, 2016 at 11:03 AM
millsart
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · How do you feel about the durability/lifetime of your mirrorless kit


uhoh7 wrote:
M9/M240 and their variants will be used long in to the future.

Every Sony product I've owned and used hard failed. My A7 so far has not, but I am much more gentle with it than the M9.

Now that I've done the Kolari thing, I do use the A7 alot and it's output is very good. I would use it a long time, but I am not confident it will make it ten years



Unless the M9 sensor cracks......



Jun 04, 2016 at 11:05 AM
uhoh7
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · How do you feel about the durability/lifetime of your mirrorless kit


millsart wrote:
Unless the M9 sensor cracks......


haha, well you just send it in. Now, it may be ten years before Leica NJ gets it back, but it will return!

garydavidjones wrote:
These mirrorless are NOT durable. They're toys.


Sweeping generalization. But no doubt 5D is way tougher than A7.

Edited on Jun 04, 2016 at 11:11 AM · View previous versions



Jun 04, 2016 at 11:07 AM
TMaG82
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · How do you feel about the durability/lifetime of your mirrorless kit


garydavidjones wrote:
I own several Canon cameras and numerous Canon and Sigma lenses which I share
with my wife. Retired, we travel extensively (100 + countries so far) and belong to botanical gardens, Huntington Library and gardens, LA Zoo, etc. where we use the above equipment.

My wife several years ago complained about how 5D2 plus lenses was too heavy. Bought Sony Nex 5. Amazing gadget with a zoom lenses. Stopped working during warranty. Repaired for free. Then died totally a year or so later. $1800 for lens and camera wasted
for short-term usage.

These mirrorless are NOT durable. They're toys.

I put a Canon 50
...Show more



Which lens was it? A NEX5 and a lens shouldn't be that expensive, unless you're talking about say the 70-200 f/4.

In terms of viability of the system, my a7rII after about 6 months of use started to show brassings and rub marks in the corners but held up. I wouldn't trust it to the beating that say a Nikon or Pentax dslr can but didn't baby it around. My RX1RII on the other hand I wanted to treat with white gloves, more so because it cost $3,200 rather than the fragile nature of it. My GR on the other hand was used more aggressively again because it only cost me $500.



Jun 04, 2016 at 11:08 AM
garydavidjones
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · How do you feel about the durability/lifetime of your mirrorless kit


was ?-180 mm. overall, cost was over $1,000. Told wife $1800 to earn "more brownie points." At my age, details after 1969 are questionable.


Jun 04, 2016 at 11:30 AM
RobCD
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · How do you feel about the durability/lifetime of your mirrorless kit


Sener wrote:
Hi,

You know, back in DSLR time the bodies and lenses were like tanks - it seemed like a Canon 40D, Nikon D300, a 24-70, an 85mm 1.4 high end lens would keep ticking forever and defy time, if it didn't encounter a Mjolnir blow.

The SLRs and their lenses, more so.

And there is the subject of timelessness; since there were less bodies and lenses back then, one could use the same camera or lens for many years without needing to replace them. This is also more so for the SLR era when it was quite normal to use an SLR body
...Show more
I'm not sure why any of this would be specific to mirrorless? The range of build quality, durability, etc for mirrorless cameras is across the board and there are plenty of mirrorless cameras that are rugged and durable enough to last much longer than 5 years. As far as technology, DSLRs are in the same boat but no one is making you upgrade to the newest technology. If you want to use the Nikon D700 today or NEX 7 today as I'm sure many people do then there is nothing stopping you and both will last a long time. Mirrorless cameras like the NEX 7, E-M1, X-T1, X-Pro1, A7r, A7II will all be around for more than 5 years (NEX 7 is already 5 years old). And I can't imagine anyone thinking that the Sony FE lenses or the Fuji X lenses aren't going to be around for much much longer than 5 years.

Or in other words, as a Fuji X-T1 user I feel like I could use my camera for as long as I want to and if I upgrade to a newer model it will be because I want to and not because of the durability or usefulness of my current camera.




Jun 04, 2016 at 11:39 AM
RobCD
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · How do you feel about the durability/lifetime of your mirrorless kit


garydavidjones wrote:
I own several Canon cameras and numerous Canon and Sigma lenses which I share
with my wife. Retired, we travel extensively (100 + countries so far) and belong to botanical gardens, Huntington Library and gardens, LA Zoo, etc. where we use the above equipment.

My wife several years ago complained about how 5D2 plus lenses was too heavy. Bought Sony Nex 5. Amazing gadget with a zoom lenses. Stopped working during warranty. Repaired for free. Then died totally a year or so later. $1800 for lens and camera wasted
for short-term usage.

These mirrorless are NOT durable. They're toys.

I put a Canon 50
...Show more

Sure it can happen but I can say that I've never had a single experience like yours with any mirrorless camera and I've used a number of them. I did have a problem with the Panasonic LX100 which I returned. I'd say that if your perception is causing your wife to lug around Canon gear to 100+ countries only because you had one bad experience with a low end mirrorless camera and you now consider mirrorless cameras toys I feel bad for her. There are so many people enjoying mirrorless systems for travel and she could be too.



Jun 04, 2016 at 11:46 AM
Spyro P.
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · How do you feel about the durability/lifetime of your mirrorless kit


Ι dont think like that and I don't care to be honest, for two reasons:
a) digital cameras drop in price really quickly. If I find a camera that I really like, and it stops working because it has some planned obsolescence built into it or because new soldering is weak or whatever, I'll just throw it in the bin and get a new used one for $300. Repeat as many times as necessary at ever decreasing prices.
b) I don't compare cameras to other cameras, I just can't be bothered. If I like it and it works for me I don't care what else they made today, even if my camera is 40 years old. And I know this because I've used 40 year old cameras and never felt I missed anything*

*except a fim lab that was closer to my house.





Jun 04, 2016 at 11:51 AM
JonPB
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · How do you feel about the durability/lifetime of your mirrorless kit


My biggest concern with cameras isn't durability but battery availability. While I believe both Sony and Fuji have used the same style of batteries for many models, which I applaud them for, once that changes it could be difficult to find a good-condition battery after 3 to 5 years. New old stock is about the same for batteries and film: if they were refrigerated, great, but in most cases it will be hit and miss. There are also generics, but I've never had one that lasted nearly as long (in terms of recharging, not discharging) as branded products; moreover, I'm more than a little wary of companies selling lithium ion batteries but which have no meaningful warranty or product liability.

Lens durability, on the other hand, is a concern for me, but with the rate at which lens design is advancing I think it is virtually impossible to make an informed decision on that front. I do like my metal-and-glass lenses, but even those manufacturers have common-enough problems to be worrysome. The optical results that I like so much are the result of amazingly tight tolerances, and it doesn't take much to set that awry.

Then again, worrying about it doesn't help me enjoy my hobby. I buy what seems to make sense then try to focus my efforts on making the most of it. While photography has always been expensive, I doubt it has ever been more affordable than it is now. Even in a total-loss, minimal-budget scenario, I could be up and running again pretty quickly with some pretty good gear.

Cheers,
Jon



Jun 04, 2016 at 12:27 PM
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