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Archive 2016 · Hyper Speed Sync for Action Sports Portraits: Anyone?

  
 
PureMichigan
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Hyper Speed Sync for Action Sports Portraits: Anyone?


Been looking at some of Dave Black's work and that of other greats who also have a mastery of sports lighting -- interested in some of the effects/opportunities that come from not just high-speed sync but hyper-speed sync for shooting actions portraits.

Been looking at lighting options -- none of which are cheap. Just wondering if anyone here shoots high/hyper speed portraits, Full disclosure: Lighting is not my strength by any means -- but it is something that I want and need to improve.

Anyone shoot high/hyper speed? What's you set-up.



May 31, 2016 at 08:37 AM
guitardirky
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Hyper Speed Sync for Action Sports Portraits: Anyone?


I think Dave Black and Joe McNally often use Nikon speedlights and Profoto B1's.


May 31, 2016 at 10:32 AM
James L
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Hyper Speed Sync for Action Sports Portraits: Anyone?


I still use multiple Nikon SB800s and various triggers. I do not use much HSS for the portrait work though. Just play with shutter speed, ap and lighting positions to get the look you want. If you are doing this work mostly indoors Nikon speedlights and cheap triggers will work. If you are working outdoors for the portraits then triggers with HSS and more powerful lights will help. Like the post above mentioned.. the Profoto's are nice. I would love to pick up a set.

Best way to figure out/learn what you want is to play around a bit with some off camera lighting and go from there.




May 31, 2016 at 10:52 AM
Shepherd_in_CO
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Hyper Speed Sync for Action Sports Portraits: Anyone?


My kid was in gymnastics when Dave Black came out with his Workshop at the Ranch series on shooting gymnastics, October 2009. We were paying each year for gymnastic portraits that were similar to school photos. Kids in leotards in front of a standard background. These shots in no way captured the previous year's hard work to obtain a certain gymnastic skill. I went on a quest using speedlights triggered with RadioPoppers to capture the athletes in action. I found that it would work if you could get a FourSquare up close to the action, but if you didn't own, or have loaned to you, a ton of speedlights you couldn't really light up the floor to capture a complete routine.

I went to using Einsteins in sports mode which can stop action at normal sync speeds. That option was more affordable than using multiple speedlights, triggers, and using fiber optics running from the triggers to the speedlight like Black and McNally. I haven't kept track of their current set up, but back then, they would do some shoots with 8 to 12 speedlights, which cost more than a couple of Einsteins. Again, nothing wrong with doing it their way if you could afford that amount of equipment. I've since retired so don't do portraits or sports action portraits anymore but probably would still be using the Einsteins or maybe would have moved to the B1's as the technology came out.
Here is a sample of what I got with a two light system:

Floor by Shepherd, on Flickr



Jun 01, 2016 at 04:20 PM
PureMichigan
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Hyper Speed Sync for Action Sports Portraits: Anyone?


Very nice indeed!

I really have too press myself to try something new ... and I think lighting is really what seprates people's work at a certain level. And it's not easy.I look at work like Martin Kozak's and sigh. There's lacrosse ... and then there's LACROSSE:

http://www.martinkozak.com/gallery/memorial-alese-hrebeskeho-2016/

When I look at this work it makes me feel like I just buy gear stand on field, press a button and hope for the best!



Jun 01, 2016 at 07:53 PM
glort
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Hyper Speed Sync for Action Sports Portraits: Anyone?


Shepherd_in_CO wrote:
Again, nothing wrong with doing it their way if you could afford that amount of equipment.

Here is a sample of what I got with a two light system


Well done for the pic AND especially for the creative thinking in overcoming the technical restraints to get the desired result.

I have never heard of Dave Black or his work but I will say this as a generalisation that has held true about 99% of the time in my experience.

These seminar presenters rarely or ever go out on their own. They are usually sponsored by either the manufacturer or distributor of the products they inevitably flog.
Sure, when you get a load of stuff given or loaned to you, of course you are going to do everything perfect and beyond regardless of the cost. That's not to say you can't do the same thing for a fraction of the cost though.

One thing I have enjoyed about photography is bucking the system and designing and making my own solutions. Right back to when I used RC car Ni-cd packs to power my metz flashes all day to my own studio track rail systems to a setup for doing onsite action pics that had the images on the View stations about 10 sec after they were taken and endless more, there is very often a cheap and very effective way around things if you put your mind to it and apply a little ingenuity.

In this case no doubt it is much better from various POV to have a simple 2 light setup than a bunch of gear lying around where there is a bunch of kids or anyone else.
The image is great and would more than impress the parents and have them pulling the cash or plastic out of their pockets post haste without making excuses about the expenses they have just had.
Thats the goal achieved right there.

The other thing is, no successful and profitable business over capitalises. If you can get something that fulfills the needs of the job and is economical, you don't spend more than you have to on gear that is overkill and produces no better result in brings in the same profit.
Business 101 that most shooters work completely against with their acute cases of " gearitis".

Well done and a great example of thinking outside the box and getting the job done with what you have to work with and making it work very well indeed.



Jun 01, 2016 at 08:39 PM
PureMichigan
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Hyper Speed Sync for Action Sports Portraits: Anyone?


The other thing is, no successful and profitable business over capitalises. If you can get something that fulfills the needs of the job and is economical, you don't spend more than you have to on gear that is overkill and produces no better result in brings in the same profit. Business 101 that most shooters work completely against with their acute cases of " gearitis".
---
I agree in principle ... but most successful businesses also capitalize with some potential growth in mind. To buy everything that meets your current basic needs but does not anticipate at least some future growth is limiting and potentially more costly. It's the great Thom Hogan story about how to save someone $700 on a Tripod. Start by buying a $1,000 Tripod. If you don't you'll end up tossing out the first 3 others that cost you $700 to begin with.

As long as its not a justification for GAS, I think "buy once cry once" can be a wise business decision.



Jun 02, 2016 at 08:52 AM
Shepherd_in_CO
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Hyper Speed Sync for Action Sports Portraits: Anyone?


Glort, thanks for the compliments and insights!

The other reason the Einsteins made a lot of sense is the fact they could be used in both sports mode and color mode, effectively having two sets of lights. They are also awesome studio lights in addition to the sports work so you have one piece of equipment that serves to purposes.



Jun 02, 2016 at 03:21 PM
glort
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Hyper Speed Sync for Action Sports Portraits: Anyone?


PureMichigan wrote:
Been looking at some of Dave Black's work and that of other greats who also have a mastery of sports lighting


I looked the guy up and watched a number of his vids.
Sorry to sound like an arse, but I failed to see anything cutting edge or that would put him in the mastery of sports lighting category to me. It's mostly basic strobist stuff being off camera lighting.

I was watching one Vid and my wife bought me in a Cuppa. She asked what I was watching and when I told her she looked and said ' But you were doing this with our sons soccer team when he was 11." She reminded me of a favorite pic and i looked it up on my computer and sure enough, 10 years ago exactly.

I was using a couple of 45 metz units I gerry rigged to a softbox with some hose clamps.
I used a similar setup (having just bought a set of Quantum radio slaves) for the same thing at the drag races at night. I put a flash on a tripod closer to the start line and went further up the track and shot when the cars hit a pre determined spot. Worked really well.

I had one guy come up to me and want to talk to me the the whole night about the setup. I saw a thing in a mag about 18 months ago about this shooter that does off camera lighting and what a legend he is for coming up with the idea. Could be the same bloke. If it is, good luck to him.
I have no interest in doing that work, Dropped it pretty quick when I discovered how little money was in it and I know there's a damn sight less now!

From what i saw on the vids, I don't believe a lot of what he does requires anything very special in the way of flash at all. In any case, there are a lot of Cheaper solution's than 8 OEM speed lights! Most flashes will go faster than 1/1000th and that is all you need to stop nearly anything. The rest is going to be product endorsement overkill.

You could buy some pretty decent portable flash gear for the price of 8 speedlights and the mounting rig and there would be a lot of upsides to using it over speed lights as well.

As an example, here is the godox portable studio flash.

http://www.godox.com/EN/Products_Camera_Flash_Witstro_AD600_Powerfou&Portable_Flash.html

Up to 1/10,000th of a sec duration. 1/8000 sync. 600W power, 87M range at iso 100 with STD reflector ( wasn't Dave shooting at 2000 ISO in the surfing shots? That's over 1/4 km range with this thing!) 500 full power shots ( try that on AA's in a speedlight!) 2.6 KG (got to be way lighter than the speedlight setup!) and best of all.....
It can be had for $600!!

How much is a speedlight in the US? $400? $300. Don't get me started on the triggering side of things!

Pretty sure you could get 4 of the godox units for a lot less than the 8 flash setups and they are going to kill the speedlight rigs in every way.
And the godox are the higher end, lots of cheaper alternatives under those.

Really, I don't see anything new or particularly different about what he is doing. It's a nice and pleasing lighting setup and certainly a lot beyond the normal way a lot of sports pics are done which gives it merit in itself.

To replicate this look, there are a lot of much cheaper alternatives, equipment and setup wise as illustrated above.




Jun 02, 2016 at 07:51 PM
thebmrust
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Hyper Speed Sync for Action Sports Portraits: Anyone?


Kozak has good stuff. To me it looks like it was shot at a great time of light (golden hour) and underexposed with bumping contrast and saturation. I have a few football and soccer games that look similar.

But it doesn't appear that he used HSS or HS to capture those LAX shots.

PureMichigan wrote:
Very nice indeed!

I really have too press myself to try something new ... and I think lighting is really what seprates people's work at a certain level. And it's not easy.I look at work like Martin Kozak's and sigh. There's lacrosse ... and then there's LACROSSE:

http://www.martinkozak.com/gallery/memorial-alese-hrebeskeho-2016/

When I look at this work it makes me feel like I just buy gear stand on field, press a button and hope for the best!





Jun 02, 2016 at 09:52 PM





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