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Archive 2016 · 5DsR SD als primary, CF als Back-up - which card?

  
 
rabbitmountain
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · 5DsR SD als primary, CF als Back-up - which card?


I was thinking to use SD cards as primary cards on my new 5DsR and use CF cards as backup. I moved to my MacBook with built in SD reader as editing machine so I figured that would be very convenient.

I am considering two Sandisk extreme pro 95 64GB SD cards. Then I would like to get a 64GB CF card to use as in camera backup. The question is can this be just any card, any speed? Or will a slower card slow down the total system buffer clearing speed? I'm thinking about Lexar CF 800x 64GB.

Any thoughts are welcome.

Kind regards,
Ralph



May 30, 2016 at 05:13 PM
Monito
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · 5DsR SD als primary, CF als Back-up - which card?


I read in your 5Ds thread a post by someone who said that there seems to be little difference for the 5Ds between the 800x and 1000x.

I'm old school, so for primary I use a CF 800x 64GB that I got free in a deal, and a 32 GB SD card for backup. Obviously I'd stop backing up once the primary got to 32 GB, but with my photograph it hasn't so far. If I ever ran out of room on the 64GB and 2 legacy 4GB cards, I'd format the SD card and keep shooting. The only time that might have happened I had a 5D classic and shot 800 photos along Elkhorn Slough (otters, seals, and birds).



May 30, 2016 at 06:35 PM
arbitrage
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · 5DsR SD als primary, CF als Back-up - which card?


Are you planning to shoot full RAW to both cards or just a jpeg backup to the CF?

I tried an older 400x CF card in the 5DSR. When shooting to fill the buffer I only lost 1-2 shots compared to my 1000x CF card. I think it was 17 shots with the 400x and 19 with the 1000x when the FPS slowed. However, the wait to see the images on screen was at least double or more and even with the 1000x the wait is already annoying and unlike any other modern DSLR from Canon because of the MP size.

If you are shooting full RAW to both cards then the slower CF will have a small affect. The 800x probably won't have much affect if I only lost 1-2 shots with a lousy 400x. The biggest affect will be the wait to view images as the camera slowly transfers to the slow card.

Compared to other cameras, the card speed isn't as important in the 5DSR but still you will always be limited to the slower card.

If you are shooting just a jpeg to the CF card then I don't know if it will matter. I haven't tried that.



May 30, 2016 at 06:52 PM
rabbitmountain
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · 5DsR SD als primary, CF als Back-up - which card?


Hi Monito and Geoff, thanks for your input. Highly appreciated as always

My main objective is to minimise preview blackout, not to maximise burst length. I don't chimp with every shot but I do like to check exposure every other couple of shots if I shoot in mixed lor changing lighting.

Reading back the camerawritespeed article it turns out I misinterpreted it initially. It is clear to me now that CF cards are 30% faster than SD when shooting RAW so one of the faster CF cards will provide the shortest preview blackout time.

And subsequently, when shooting backups to the SD card, choosing RAW will extend the blackout time to SD performance. So I suppose the fastest configuration is RAW to CF and JPEG to SD.




May 30, 2016 at 10:23 PM
EB-1
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · 5DsR SD als primary, CF als Back-up - which card?


You really want to use the 1000-1066x CF cards for any sort of action to clear the buffer as quickly as possible and also review the images. I once accidentally switched to an SD card (95MB/sec. Extreme Pro) in the camera and it was noticeably slower.

If you shoot only landscapes then the SD cards may be acceptable, but it's only something I would use in an emergency for all subjects. I do have a 128GB Extreme Pro SDXC for general use. Likewise two cards are slower (less throughput) than one.

For wildlife you will want to have at least one spare battery on hand as the framing rate slows down to 3FPS below 50% charge. 64GB cards are the minimum I use and 128GB cards are desirable for significant action. I've filled three 64GB cards and gone to a third battery on a high-opportunity day.

EBH



May 30, 2016 at 11:00 PM
Monito
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · 5DsR SD als primary, CF als Back-up - which card?


rabbitmountain wrote:
I suppose the fastest configuration is RAW to CF and JPEG to SD.


That might work, but probably only if you set the Playback option to the SD card. I suspect the image review is an actual read from the Playback card rather than a diversion in the pipeline. I should try the experiment myself but probably won't anytime soon.



May 31, 2016 at 12:05 AM
UCSB
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · 5DsR SD als primary, CF als Back-up - which card?


I use a Lexar 128GB 1000x SD card and a Lexar 1066x CF as a set to shot RAW in my 5DSR. I typically just read the files off of the SD card. My logic is that there are no pins involved on the SD card and less chance of damage to the card or camera. There may be speed differences between the cards ... its not something I have researched. I have dedicated Lexar SD and CF USB 3.0 readers; they seem fast enough for me.

Added: When I was purchasing, I just looked at the SD technology supported by the camera (in camera specs) to see if the features of the card would be usable by the camera. Even if the camera can not make full use of the card's technology, your card reader may benefit on your read speed if your reader is compatible with the card.



May 31, 2016 at 01:37 AM
Scott Stoness
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · 5DsR SD als primary, CF als Back-up - which card?


Here is what I do:
- I use Lexar 1000's 64 cf card for fastest possible write/burst recovery
- I use Lexar 400x sd as my sd

I shoot to CF for wildlife. When I am finished the day I copy the raws by camera to the sd.

I shoot to sd's for landscape and then open new file and switch back when going to wildlife. So I can keep track of files in my head. Landscape uses far less raws per hour.

Then I can put the sd's in my mac laptop.

This gives me maximum speed fps/burst/histogram blackout and no need for a card reader.



May 31, 2016 at 12:58 PM
rabbitmountain
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · 5DsR SD als primary, CF als Back-up - which card?


So you don't shoot RAWs to both cards? I see. But I want to have a backup while shooting so I'll be using both cards simultaneously. I will need a fast sd card. Will go to the store tomorrow and see what they have.

Thanks for all your replies!



May 31, 2016 at 03:50 PM
Scott Stoness
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · 5DsR SD als primary, CF als Back-up - which card?


rabbitmountain wrote:
So you don't shoot RAWs to both cards? I see. But I want to have a backup while shooting so I'll be using both cards simultaneously. I will need a fast sd card. Will go to the store tomorrow and see what they have.

Thanks for all your replies!


I do shoot raws to both sd and cf separately but only use sd if I have to because its significantly slower and does not permit as many in burst and has longer buffer clearing.

I do not use the write to both for security because the odds of losing pictures from failed cf is lower than losing pictures from having a full or slow buffer; caused by writing to the slow sd performance. I really wish the 5d3,5dsr would have gone with two cf's.




May 31, 2016 at 04:54 PM
pKai
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · 5DsR SD als primary, CF als Back-up - which card?


The fastest SD cards are slower than even middle of the road CF cards.....

If you shoot any kind of action at all, you will want to use 1066x CF card with the 5DSR... The SD is painfully slow unless you shoot non-action (i.e. landscapes, commercial, weddings, etc) where you will not be filling the smallish 13-frame RAW buffer...

I too wish that Canon had put in 2 CF slots. The SD slot is useless for me.



Jun 01, 2016 at 12:37 AM
rabbitmountain
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · 5DsR SD als primary, CF als Back-up - which card?


pKai wrote:
If you shoot any kind of action at all, you will want to use 1066x CF card with the 5DSR...

I just picked up a SanDisk Extreme Pro 160MB/s CF card and a 95MB/s SD with 30% discount on my new 5DsR. Will try them out tonight when I get home.

pKai wrote:
The SD is painfully slow unless you shoot non-action (i.e. landscapes, commercial, weddings, etc) where you will not be filling the smallish 13-frame RAW buffer...


Basically you are correct. However, in my experience the 5DsR is only painfully slow when I wish to view my images directly after a burst. A burst can also be a series of captures shot closely after one another during a wedding (down the aisle shot for example). Not a typical burst like in sports or wildlife but if I hit the shutter 15 times in 8 seconds the buffer still needs 7 more seconds to clear. It takes some getting used to coming from a 5D3 which was practically instantaneous.

I've shot a kids sports game on manual exposure mode, 250 images in 15 minutes, and I haven't found myself anxiously waiting for the buffer to clear at all.

If need be, I can shoot one image to check within a second and then shoot the rest. If I need the ultimate action camera I can shoot jpeg only and fire away.




Jun 01, 2016 at 07:51 AM
Scott Stoness
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · 5DsR SD als primary, CF als Back-up - which card?


For me the issue is not just being able to see the pictures after shooting - its that after the buffer is full, you cannot take any pictures for 7s. The Lexar 1000 takes more pictures and clears the buffer in better than 1/2 the time.

I await your reporting but I predict that you won't like the performance in burst/burst recovery using the sd card either as primary or mirroring for action. If you can get it to as good as 1000x cf, I will buy some too.

My experience is that he sd is limited by the camera not the card, and you won't get much improvement with faster sd card after 400x or so. I use a 400x SD when I have to for action (eg CF card is full and there is no time to change the card) but I sure notice sd card throughput slowdown..



Jun 01, 2016 at 01:12 PM
rabbitmountain
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · 5DsR SD als primary, CF als Back-up - which card?


Hi Scott,

I turned a 180 degrees on my original plan. I see now that it is best to shoot the RAWs to the CF card and the backup to the SD card. My strategy now is the following:

1. For landscape and studio work (up to 15 frames per minute): RAW to CF and RAW to SD for backup
2. For events and other fast paced work (15 to 60 frames per minute): RAW to CF and large JPEG to SD
3. For sports events that are extremely fast (long and subsequent 5 fps bursts): shoot JPEG to both cards. The 5DsR appears to provide fast buffer clearance when shooting JPEG only.

This is the plan. As usual, the actual preferred method will come through experience.

Kind regards,
Ralph



Jun 01, 2016 at 02:53 PM
pKai
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · 5DsR SD als primary, CF als Back-up - which card?


rabbitmountain wrote:
Not a typical burst like in sports or wildlife but if I hit the shutter 15 times in 8 seconds the buffer still needs 7 more seconds to clear.



That's about 2fps, My Lexar 1066 can swallow that without ever filling the buffer. No current SD will come close.

rabbitmountain wrote:
3. For sports events that are extremely fast (long and subsequent 5 fps bursts): shoot JPEG to both cards. The 5DsR appears to provide fast buffer clearance when shooting JPEG only.


To each his own, but I never shoot JPG. I suppose I would if it's something for immediate publication with minimal postprocessing even possible.

I shoot BIF just fine at 5fps with a 1066x CF card..... I get a solid 3 second full-speed bust and then the WORST case scenario is about 2fps if I hold the button down. If I let go, buffer clears in a few seconds. I don't care about the LCD since I hardly ever chimp shots.

I came from a 1D4 for action, so it did take a bit of getting used to not having 10fps and a deep buffer.... In the end, all it did was make me a more disciplined shooter..... like I used to be before we had 10fps in the first place..... ...

This burst encompassed about 16 seconds and is comprised of 49 frames shot with the button down letting the camera do what it does..... The average is a little over 3fps with a Lexar 1066x and no SD. No regrets and I did not miss 10fps given the pixel density of the 5DSR that I traded it for.





























Edited on Jun 01, 2016 at 10:59 PM · View previous versions



Jun 01, 2016 at 03:42 PM
rabbitmountain
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · 5DsR SD als primary, CF als Back-up - which card?


Okay I will first try my new 160MB/s card and then see how fast the buffer clears. Above numbers are for a 400x UDMA7 Transcend 32Gb card. I may come to your conclusion as well. Thanks for your input.


Jun 01, 2016 at 04:24 PM





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