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Archive 2016 · What Shutter Speed to Freeze Fast Action

  
 
MDJAK
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · What Shutter Speed to Freeze Fast Action


I recently posted a shot of my dog running full speed across the backyard. I believe it was at 1/3200 shutter speed and it was sharp, or at least I think it was.

I wanted a faster shutter speed but for some dumb reason am allergic to using high ISO. Obviously, or at least I think so, the only way to get a faster shutter, if one is already wide open, is to up the ISO.

So how fast is fast enough? For BIF, for instance, in the usual circumstance, not those super fast diving birds that I couldn't get in the VF if my life depended on it.

How often do you guys/gals use 1/8000th? Only when necessary to prevent overexposure on a super bright day?

Also, why (I don't even know so how could you?) am I married to AV mode? When shooting fast action, do you use TV?

As you can tell, and be gentle, I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed when it comes to the technical aspects of photography, and one reason may be a very weak background in math.

Thanks for the input and help.
mark



May 30, 2016 at 10:20 AM
pjbuehner
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · What Shutter Speed to Freeze Fast Action


Hi Mark,
shutter speed depends on the subject and lots of shooting will get you to a point where you will have a general idea of each situation. Some examples: For NCAA DI basketball, soccer, football, etc I try not to drop below 1/1000. When shooting hummingbirds, You cannot freeze the wings with ambient light so I try to get a speed that will give me a sharp body (1/1600 on a couple I just looked at and others were 1/500). 1/3200 should freeze a dog. Shutter speed is only part of the formula for a sharp shot though. You need good focus, a good lens, proper depth of focus, etc.
A good thought process is to decide what you want for settings, by priority. For example, if you know that you need at least 1/1000 shutter, set it on your camera (In manual mode). Then decide what you want for aperture (wide open for subject isolation or narrowed down for increased depth of focus). Once you have that set, look at the in camera meter and see where it lands. If overexposed, then you need to lower your ISO or either narrow the aperture or increase the shutter speed. If underexposed, raise the ISO or open up the aperture or lower the shutter speed.
Another important thing to do is to take an image and look at it (and the histogram). Often the meter will be incorrect for a good photo. A good example is if you are trying to shoot a bird perched on a limb that sits in the shade but has bright sky behind it. Trusting the meter blindly in this case will result in a very underexposed image.

Using Av, or Tv modes simply takes one of the parameters out of your hands. In Av mode, you set your aperture and the shutter will adjust automatically. In Tv mode, you are commanding the shutter speed but allowing the camera to set the aperture.

I hope that helps.
Good luck,
Peter

Edited on May 30, 2016 at 02:38 PM · View previous versions



May 30, 2016 at 10:47 AM
Cicopo
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · What Shutter Speed to Freeze Fast Action


1/3200 should freeze that kind of action but keep in mind (from the situations description) you were also panning & that affects results. A bad panning action can be a blur you suspect as too slow a shutter speed.


May 30, 2016 at 10:49 AM
hotdog12
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · What Shutter Speed to Freeze Fast Action


I've been a photojournalist for 35 years and I think I've used 1/2000th sec. about ten times in my career. Here's rough rule of thumb from someone who has shot a lifetime:

BASE shutter speed for football, basketball, baseball, most sports--1/500th sec.
Tennis--1/1000th sec.--that racket and ball are REALLY fast!

Of course, a little faster is sweet, but often the trade off of high ISO or losing depth of field makes it less than optimal.

Going above 1/2000th sec. is generally reserved for documenting bullets, rail guns, ICBM launches, etc.



May 30, 2016 at 11:00 AM
Imagemaster
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · What Shutter Speed to Freeze Fast Action


1/2000 is a good choice for action shots and with your 1DX, I would not worry much about higher ISO.

Since your primary concern is freezing the action, why shoot in AV mode? Put it in TV mode and turn on Safety Shift for either Aperture or Auto ISO. Say you are shooting in bright light at 1/2000 and correct exposure is f8. If a cloud suddenly comes over, the Safety Shift will automatically adjust your aperture to f5.6 or f4, but your shutter speed will remain at 1/2000.

Why risk getting blur from using too slow shutter speeds? Having shot for over 50 years, my rule of thumb is to use the highest shutter speed possible. As for losing DOF, most pros are shooting sports with f2.8 or f4 lenses because they do not want a lot of DOF. They do not want distracting in-focus backgrounds.

If you want to freeze the wing-beat of hummers, you use flash. Your shutter speed can be as slow as 1/250 because it is the duration of the flash that freezes the wing motion.






Edited on May 30, 2016 at 11:24 AM · View previous versions



May 30, 2016 at 11:21 AM
gdanmitchell
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · What Shutter Speed to Freeze Fast Action


Unfortunately, there is no specific answer to your question. How far away is the subject? Can you pan? Do you want a bit of blur to suggest motion? If so, do you want to stop the motion of the eyes but allow the motion of the feet? How large will you print?

In the end, you simply need to get a feeling for this by photographing.

Fortunately, with digital cameras it is extremely easy to run the experiments yourself and see the results very quickly. Perhaps you want to go out next to a roadway and try photographing cars as they pass. Or perhaps go to and urban area and photograph walkers in low light.

Don't be too allergic to raising the ISO when necessary. As the light becomes lower and the action remains fast, you simply have to make a best available compromise. Often, if you are trying to stop motion, this means raising the ISO and making some adjustments in post.

Good luck!

Dan

MDJAK wrote:
I recently posted a shot of my dog running full speed across the backyard. I believe it was at 1/3200 shutter speed and it was sharp, or at least I think it was.

I wanted a faster shutter speed but for some dumb reason am allergic to using high ISO. Obviously, or at least I think so, the only way to get a faster shutter, if one is already wide open, is to up the ISO.

So how fast is fast enough? For BIF, for instance, in the usual circumstance, not those super fast diving birds that I couldn't get in
...Show more



May 30, 2016 at 11:23 AM
uz2work
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · What Shutter Speed to Freeze Fast Action


gdanmitchell wrote:
Unfortunately, there is no specific answer to your question. How far away is the subject?

Dan



While there are many factors that come into play when determining the shutter speed needed to freeze action, one of the major factors is the distance between the camera and the subject.

It is not just the actual speed at which the subject is moving that is important. What is actually more important is the speed at which the subject is moving through the frame, and, when the subject is closer to the camera, it is moving through the frame much faster than would the same subject traveling at the same actual speed but at a distance further from the camera.

If you try taking pictures of a car moving at, say, 50 mph and, if you do so while you are standing right at the side of the road, you will find that you need a much faster shutter speed (and better panning technique) than if you took a picture of the same car traveling at the same speed but if you took the picture from, say, 100 feet back from the side of the road.

The reason why birds like swallows are more difficult to photograph than larger birds, like eagles, is not necessarily the absolute speed at which the two birds are flying, but it is more related to the fact that the eagle is likely to be further from the camera than the small swallow, and that, in turn, makes the swallow move through the frame much faster than the eagle does. Thus, to freeze the action of the swallow, you need both faster shutter speeds and better panning (and tracking) technique.

Thus, while a shutter speed of 1/500 might be sufficient to freeze the action of subject that is 60 feet away, a shutter speed of 1/2000 might not be sufficient to freeze the action of the same subject if it is 15 feet away.




May 30, 2016 at 12:19 PM
MDJAK
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · What Shutter Speed to Freeze Fast Action


I can't thank all of you enough. I just read and reread all the replies thus far. Excellent info and very educational.


May 30, 2016 at 02:09 PM
Zenon Char
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · What Shutter Speed to Freeze Fast Action


My friend is the same. He has a Nikon D300 but is so uncomfortable going over IS0 400 - 800. He is still stuck in the film days.

I'd rather deal with a little noise which I can fix then have a blurry image. I shot a football game with my 7D at 12,800. It was a night game and I was maxed out with my 300L F4 IS. I could only get about 1/500 and still had a bit of motion blur in the hands and feet. I did get the shots. People really liked the 8 by 10's.

~original[/IMG]

just a some visual help.

http://camerasim.com/apps/original-camerasim/web/



May 30, 2016 at 02:12 PM
EB-1
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · What Shutter Speed to Freeze Fast Action


MDJAK wrote:
I recently posted a shot of my dog running full speed across the backyard. I believe it was at 1/3200 shutter speed and it was sharp, or at least I think it was.

I wanted a faster shutter speed but for some dumb reason am allergic to using high ISO. Obviously, or at least I think so, the only way to get a faster shutter, if one is already wide open, is to up the ISO.

So how fast is fast enough? For BIF, for instance, in the usual circumstance, not those super fast diving birds that I couldn't get in
...Show more

Mostly I use manual mode. It's not unusual to need 1/2000-1/4000 for active wildlife, which includes many dogs. I'm more inclined to use high speeds with the 5DsR than the older low-res bodies.

EBH



May 30, 2016 at 03:02 PM
Zenon Char
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · What Shutter Speed to Freeze Fast Action


Yeah. Unless I want wing movement I try shoot at least 1/2000 even if I don't need that much.


May 30, 2016 at 04:12 PM
uz2work
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · What Shutter Speed to Freeze Fast Action


Zenon Char wrote:
Yeah. Unless I want wing movement I try shoot at least 1/2000 even if I don't need that much.


What using higher shutter speeds than you might think that you really "need" does for you is that it helps to compensate for less than perfect panning and, along with IS, camera shake.

Of course, though, when shooting prop air planes or racing cars or motorcycles, you want to use very slow shutter speeds because you want the prop or wheel blur and the blurred background to create a sense of fast motion. In those cases, being able to pan at the precise speed of the plane, car, or motorcycle becomes critical. As someone who only rarely shoots in those kinds of situations and whose panning skill is, at best, mediocre, I am in awe of the panning skills of those who can consistently get sharp shots of prop planes or racing vehicles with shutter speeds like 1/80 or 1/125.




May 30, 2016 at 04:45 PM
NCAndy
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · What Shutter Speed to Freeze Fast Action


For me, with HS sports, girls 1/1000s and boys 1/1250s if possible. For D1 college I up that to 1/1600s or 1/2000s conditions allowing. Of course it can all be a trade off with available lighting. But generally I would never want to be below 1/1000s.


May 30, 2016 at 04:55 PM
Zenon Char
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · What Shutter Speed to Freeze Fast Action


uz2work wrote:
What using higher shutter speeds than you might think that you really "need" does for you is that it helps to compensate for less than perfect panning and, along with IS, camera shake.

Of course, though, when shooting prop air planes or racing cars or motorcycles, you want to use very slow shutter speeds because you want the prop or wheel blur and the blurred background to create a sense of fast motion. In those cases, being able to pan at the precise speed of the plane, car, or motorcycle becomes critical. As someone who only rarely shoots in those
...Show more

Lot's of shake here. I'm not that steady and I'm not concerned. I have worked on those slow SS for props etc, but not very hard. Only attempted a few times but not that many opportunities. This summers project. There is a speedway I'm going to check out and I'm not sure about the local air show.






May 30, 2016 at 05:18 PM
Jefferson
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · What Shutter Speed to Freeze Fast Action


Canon 30D + Canon 300 f/4L IS @ f/13 ... ISO 100 ... 1/60
https://photos.smugmug.com/Category/GrandAm-Road-Atlanta-13/i-cnNr56X/0/X2/GrandAm%20%2713-574-2-X2.jpg

... Mostly sharp ... might not draw blood, but acceptable IMO (I could kick it up a bit in LR ... but why ... ?


Jefferson ...



May 30, 2016 at 05:19 PM
Zenon Char
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · What Shutter Speed to Freeze Fast Action


Nice. I'll get one.


May 30, 2016 at 05:39 PM
Zenon Char
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · What Shutter Speed to Freeze Fast Action


Darn. Our local air show is this Saturday but I won't be able to make it this time. Earlier than I expected.


May 30, 2016 at 05:49 PM
Monito
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · What Shutter Speed to Freeze Fast Action


How fast?

Make lots of shots of different at various different speeds and look at them closely, some of them even at 100%. Pay attention to the type of action and how much of the frame it fills.

Then consider when blur is acceptable or even desired. For example a QB running while passing: you might stop the forward body motion but have a touch of blur in the feet and a medium amount of blur in the hand and football. Can look really good.

There is no substitute for experience. Forum-learning (book-learning) is a good start but no amount of rules and guidelines is going to be better than knowing what you are doing from experience, especially when it comes to the artistic choices you make as a photographer..

Note: 1/8000 or 1/4000 whichever is top speed on the camera has typically half the reliability of lower speeds. For example on a 1/8000 camera the shutter speeds 1/4000 and down might be +/- 15% but the 1/8000 speed can be +/- 30%. It's the reason most post-processing software has 1/6 stop or 1/10 stop adjustment steps.



May 30, 2016 at 06:24 PM
Ferrophot
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · What Shutter Speed to Freeze Fast Action


For panning shots I generally use 1/25 -1/50th. For sports I set it to 1/1250 to 1/1600. For general photography of slower moving subjects I 'm looking for 1/500th as the minimum, 1/1000 is better. If isolation of the subject is not an issue then I'll go for f8. I set the ISO to give these settings. With cameras like the 6D the higher ISOs are no longer an issue, far better to be sharp than loose a bit of DR. I like to shoot trains in the blue hour, I find ISOs up to 10,000 contain noise well, and use up to 20,000 if need be.
This DR and noise issue gets over blown, 5 years ago these might have been a consideration, not so much now.



May 30, 2016 at 06:34 PM
rdcny
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · What Shutter Speed to Freeze Fast Action


1/4000 second and much luck with oncoming birds such as this Peregrine Falcon

Note: the Canon cameras I have used in the past five years including the 7D; 5D2; 5D3 and currently the 5Ds all have major problems with birds coming at the camera...the focus is usually not on the leading edge of the bird (such as the beak/eyes) but closer to the rear half of the body...

Birds that are flying perpendicular to the camera - you can get by with slightly slower shutter speeds depending upon the species. That being said, wing tips are often moving faster than the part of the wing closest to the body...a diving Long-tailed Duck as an example at 1/3200 sec (approx.). I include this image because sometimes one gets lucky...

Bottom line is that if a bird is close, even if a large, slow moving bird such as a vulture (see image 3 below), one needs a faster shutter speed than birds further away from the camera...and as the lens gets longer, and the megapixels increase (5Ds for example), more shutter speed is needed for critically sharp images.





adult Peregrine Falcon at State Line (NJ) - 31 March 2016 at 1/4000 sec with 600mm F4 II Canon lens







Long-tailed Duck - probably 1/3200 sec at F4 with the 5Ds and 600mm F4 II







White-rumped Vulture with 5Ds and 600mm F4 II at 1/3200 sec and 800 ISO




May 30, 2016 at 06:39 PM
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