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Archive 2016 · Question on Otus 28/1.4 vs 28/1.4 Summilux

  
 
suteetat
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Question on Otus 28/1.4 vs 28/1.4 Summilux


Yesterday I had a chance to play a bit with Otus 28/1.4 on my A7r ii and I really like the file that I was able to produce very much. Granted, the weight and size are considerable and not really a good balance with A7r ii but manageable.
However, I am also curious about 28/1.4 lux. With either, I would use the lens either with A7r ii or SL. With Otus, I suppose I can use it with my Nikon as well technically.
Ignoring size and price difference for now, has anyone compare both lenses side by side. I gather that the Lux has some field curvature while Otus is as flat as can be so Otus should has and edge for landscape. Both has certain degree of CA wide open, with the Otus may be a bit less from examples that I saw but that is easily corrected. Unfortunately, there is no Lux 28/1.4 locally that I can try and compare so any thought is appreciated. Certainly the much smaller and lighter Lux will also have an edge in portability and street shooting while Otus might give me nicer bicep but let stick with just IQ alone for now.



May 25, 2016 at 02:22 AM
ocean2059
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Question on Otus 28/1.4 vs 28/1.4 Summilux


https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1431433/0#13571731


May 25, 2016 at 05:41 AM
suteetat
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Question on Otus 28/1.4 vs 28/1.4 Summilux


Thanks for the link, I missed that one. Unfortunately there are not a lot of direct comparison on the net anywhere. There is only one direct corner comparison in landscape shot that I found on the net and that's about it. I think if it was no issue of size and weight, this would be an easy pick for me


May 26, 2016 at 05:49 PM
Sam_W
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Question on Otus 28/1.4 vs 28/1.4 Summilux


Although not quite what you're asking, I own an Otus55, and used it on an A7r. I stopped. Selling the lens now, and already sold the camera.

While initially I really liked the superb quality, the weight and ergonomics just don't work out long-term. (Also sold the Apo135, another superb lens.)

If you don't need the uber-speed, I'd recommend something like the Elmarit-R 2.8/28 v2, or the Batis 2.8/25, etc. Alternatively, if you get the KolariMod for your camera, by all means, enjoy the 'Lux 28!



May 26, 2016 at 09:21 PM
trogdon
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Question on Otus 28/1.4 vs 28/1.4 Summilux


Could also consider the only other 28mm 1.4 in town, the Nikon. I've heard mixed things, but would have the positives of the Otus sans a little bit of weight And save a lot in price


May 26, 2016 at 09:44 PM
mawz
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Question on Otus 28/1.4 vs 28/1.4 Summilux


trogdon wrote:
Could also consider the only other 28mm 1.4 in town, the Nikon. I've heard mixed things, but would have the positives of the Otus sans a little bit of weight And save a lot in price


The Nikkor is fast & fun (and was shockingly good wide open for its era), but it's not even the best Nikkor at that focal length.

I'd expect the Otus & Lux will both start better than the Nikkor ever gets. And the Nikkor isn't all that much cheaper (it's a $3k lens last I checked)



May 26, 2016 at 10:06 PM
naturephoto1
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Question on Otus 28/1.4 vs 28/1.4 Summilux


Though we are still awaiting the results of the new Leica M 28mm f2.8 Asph Elmarit on a Kolari modded A7 series camera, if you don't need the speed, shallow DOF, and Bokeh wide open, this may be a very good, well balanced, extremely light and small option for you (this is the smallest and lightest lens in the Leica M line) . It would require a modification to your A7rII (Kolari Mod is $500) but if we find that the lens performs as well as it might, this could be a superb performer that is extremely small, light, and much less of an expenditure of money than for the the Otus 28 or the Leica M 28mm Summilux lenses.

Rich

Edited on May 26, 2016 at 10:23 PM · View previous versions



May 26, 2016 at 10:14 PM
rscheffler
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Question on Otus 28/1.4 vs 28/1.4 Summilux


I think it depends on how critical you are. I was recently at a Leica store where I tried their 28 Lux demo for a good 30-45 minutes on my M240 and just spent the last couple hours going over the images. It impressed me. It's the first Lux lens I've used where I didn't feel there was a noticeable mid zone drop in sharpness due to weird/wavy field curvature when stopped down only a couple stops. In fact I didn't really notice any obvious field curvature (and shot some images specifically to check for this). The weaknesses I saw in the Lux were very slight wide open detail smearing in the outer zone (I think in the tangential direction) and that the outer most corners were somewhat soft even when stopped down to f/5.6. It also seems to have some slight contrast weakness at the edges vs. my 28 Cron. Its MTF curves kind of hint at this. Details there don't seem to quite pop the same way. In bright light I saw a bit of purple/yellow CA. One review I read indicated it can purple fringe in high contrast situations, but I wasn't able to easily provoke that aspect in my testing, unlike what I can provoke from my 21 Lux. But I have no idea how it will behave on a Sony. It's supposed to be slightly better on the SL than the M240.

I haven't tried the Otus yet (actually, no intention to do so), but technically it might be the best all-rounder if you need a fast 28 to do double duty. But I personally wouldn't be disappointed with the 28 Lux in all but maybe the most demanding situations. And there you might be better served by a better corrected, slower 28. The new 28 Elmarit-M tests well on the SL. If I could only get one, I'd split the difference and get the new 28 Cron. The revised lens seems to perform considerably better than the previous version on the M and SL from wide open. And that's pretty much what I intended to do, until I tested the 28 Lux.... Unfortunately the Leica store didn't have the new 28 Cron to try and now the Lux has got me re-thinking everything. As with 21mm where I use both the 21 Lux and 21 SEM, I could see myself with a 28 Lux for wide open and/or low light situations, and a 28 Elmarit when I want something much smaller and very sharp. But unlike the 21 Lux, my test images with the 28 Lux indicate I would be happy with it for pretty much everything. The only other complaint is the degree of viewfinder blockage, but I guess this wouldn't be relevant to you.



May 27, 2016 at 12:47 AM
Lee Saxon
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Question on Otus 28/1.4 vs 28/1.4 Summilux


You know, the more I think about how I tend to use this focal length, the more I think the flat field and amazing corners of the Otus are actually a disadvantage and the apparently-uber-field-curvature 28/2 is really the lens for me. FWIW.


May 27, 2016 at 12:59 AM
suteetat
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Question on Otus 28/1.4 vs 28/1.4 Summilux


Thank you all for your input. I was thinking about Nikon for a bit but I agree that Nikon now a day is not all that much cheaper and for what I plans to do, either Otus or Lux would be more suited.
For a long time, I really think that Lux made the most sense and Otus was never really in the picture until I saw this.
http://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/252358-apo-vario-elmarit-sl-24-90-zoom/page-3

Then I saw a copy at my local store so I asked if I could try the Otus and I think that was a fatal mistake.
It certainly was big, heavy and not really easy to use but the picture I got was really impressive. Not unlike the first time I tried 50/2 apo or Zeiss 35/1.4zm and I was actually more excited about it than when I tried 21/1.4 lux. I don have Batis 25/2, loxia 21/2.8 etc as well which I really like but once in a while a very special lens just came through that is hard to resist. Unfortunately this one comes in such as big package
Of course one main benefit will be that the Otus would work well on all of my cameras, A7r ii, SL and D810 without any need for modification. Although I really wish that it has tripod collar on the lens.
Size and weight wise, I can handle A7r ii or SL with Zeiss 135/2 well and am not bother by the weight there. May be I'll give myself a month go to work on my biceps and try to Otus again


Edited on May 27, 2016 at 01:14 AM · View previous versions



May 27, 2016 at 01:08 AM
suteetat
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Question on Otus 28/1.4 vs 28/1.4 Summilux


Lee Saxon wrote:
You know, the more I think about how I tend to use this focal length, the more I think the flat field and amazing corners of the Otus are actually a disadvantage and the apparently-uber-field-curvature 28/2 is really the lens for me. FWIW.


True, true, I think that 28 is really suited for street shooting and in scenario like that, I never really paid much attention to corner much at all and I think 28 cron or lux would be perfect. Sometimes though for landscape, 35mm is just not quite wide enough and 24mm is just too wide so ideally, I would like to get a 28 that can do both well and may be that is asking a bit too much.




May 27, 2016 at 01:12 AM
Lee Saxon
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Question on Otus 28/1.4 vs 28/1.4 Summilux


suteetat wrote:
I would like to get a 28 that can do both well and may be that is asking a bit too much.


Well I think all of the lenses mentioned in this thread can do all these things well. If you stop down enough the Nikon gets sufficiently sharp and contrasty and the field curvature of the 28/2 largely flattens out. And the Otus may be sharp in the corners wide open but it vignettes a lot so I think it could work stylistically for street (if you've been working on your biceps). But yeah, being the best in more than one of these categories would be contradictory.



May 27, 2016 at 01:28 AM
azenis
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Question on Otus 28/1.4 vs 28/1.4 Summilux


I own a Nikon 28mm F1.4, so I might be biased.

However, from my own observation (I was the poster ocean2059 linked), the 3 lenses came down to the following:

Sharpness:
Zeiss>Leica>Nikon

Color/contrast:
Zeiss*>Leica≈Nikon

This one is actually tough. As far as correctness goes, Otus takes the crown, however, I liked Leica's color rendition the most with Nikon following very closely after. If personal preference is the measurement instead of correctness or what the color really looks like to naked eyes, then result would be Leica≈Nikon>Zeiss

Rendition/Bokeh:
Nikon>Leica=Zeiss

Ok, this one can be highly subjective, but I am simply not a fan of the modern sterile lens look; too well corrected to a point that there's zero character in them and all look pretty much the same

Price:
Leica@$6195>Zeiss@$4995>Nikon@≈$1800 second hand in great-mint condition

I think too many people still have that crazy inflated price a few years back for the Nikon in their mind. The fact is, Nikon 24/1.4G and 28/1.8G have both pushed the 28/1.4D price down to a very reasonable range. Check eBay history and you can see even a collector grade copy with full box and everything sold for under $2000. And as I said in the Nikon thread on Nikon board, as it currently stands, the Nikon is the best 28mm F1.4 lens out there when one consider C/P ratio. The other two are a bit sharper while commanding 2x and 3x the price. I personally don't see the value in there, and TBH, unless you are pixel-peeping, there difference simply won't show. The Nikon still produces an amazing image that justifies its premium lens status with a very unique bokeh. The only reason I'd consider the other two is Zeiss for corner-to-corner sharpness/pixel-peeping happy and Leica to use with a Leica RF (the only reason I'm considering it for)

So, take your pick. There's no absolute best... only a best in the function you are intending to use for.



May 27, 2016 at 03:05 AM
suteetat
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Question on Otus 28/1.4 vs 28/1.4 Summilux


Thanks for your input. I have to check local price for Nikon 28/1.4 again but my impression is that it runs close to what a Noct Nikkor here would cost which would make it about 25-30% less than an Otus. If I get it via ebay, with taxes, it won't be that far off Otus here unfortunately. I am not in a big rush to get the Otus and the local dealer now seems to have it in stock regularly but I will have to see if I can locate the Nikon and try it out. I agree with your assessment of modern lens to a certain extent but I tend to think more of Sigma rather than Zeiss. I would say that Zeiss 135/2 would fit your description of modern lens very well except for the sterile part (at least to my eyes). I love the rendition of Noct Nikkor very much, also Minolta 58/1.2 but I find that they are excellent for certain condition but I would not consider them a well rounded lens for all purpose. Kind of like 50/2 apo vs Noctilux or 50/1.4 pre asph in a way.


May 27, 2016 at 09:11 AM
azenis
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Question on Otus 28/1.4 vs 28/1.4 Summilux


suteetat wrote:
Thanks for your input. I have to check local price for Nikon 28/1.4 again but my impression is that it runs close to what a Noct Nikkor here would cost which would make it about 25-30% less than an Otus. If I get it via ebay, with taxes, it won't be that far off Otus here unfortunately. I am not in a big rush to get the Otus and the local dealer now seems to have it in stock regularly but I will have to see if I can locate the Nikon and try it out. I agree with your
...Show more

I'd be surprised if the Nikon 28/1.4D still commands such a premium in Thailand. There are 2 listings on eBay right now for under 1600 with no bid on them, I'd suggest try bidding on them if you are not in a hurry to get it.

Sigma is a good example, but honestly the modern lenses are all very similar as far as rendition goes for Leica/Zeiss/Sigma.

They are all very sharp, highly suppressed in coma and/or aberrations (with maybe CA being the only problem wide-open).

Here are some street shots I took yesterday to give you an idea what the Nikon can do. All @1.4/1.8 IIRC as lighting wasn't optimal.

Walking by by JayPhoto, on Flickr

Happy Birthday by JayPhoto, on Flickr

Getting off by JayPhoto, on Flickr



May 27, 2016 at 12:08 PM
Lee Saxon
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Question on Otus 28/1.4 vs 28/1.4 Summilux


At the bottom of this page I'm seeing as much veiling haze in the Nikon wide open as in the 50/1.2 AI-s, which at least with my eyesight would make it completely impossible to focus. The wide open samples on the next page are also not unimpressive but not worth $2000+. Is not representative of your copy?


May 27, 2016 at 02:56 PM
azenis
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Question on Otus 28/1.4 vs 28/1.4 Summilux


Lee Saxon wrote:
At the bottom of this page I'm seeing as much veiling haze in the Nikon wide open as in the 50/1.2 AI-s, which at least with my eyesight would make it completely impossible to focus. The wide open samples on the next page are also not unimpressive but not worth $2000+. Is not representative of your copy?


Nop, and I think it's usually not as bad.

Photozone actually got a particularly bad copy as far as 28/1.4D goes. I have had 3 different copies, and even though there were sample variations between the 3, none was as bad as Photozone.

Not intending to discredit Photozone, they do a great job, but if my 3 copies experience tells me anything, they just had a bad luck to get one with the extreme end of bad copies.

Of course the Otus would be sharper as well as the Leica. But again, I don't think the difference is big enough to justify 2~3x the price premium unless you do heavy cropping/pixel-peeping.



May 28, 2016 at 12:24 AM





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