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Archive 2016 · 1Dx2 underexposes w/ Zeiss Otus lenses

  
 
Vancouver47
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · 1Dx2 underexposes w/ Zeiss Otus lenses


Has anyone had difficulty with auto ISO underexposing 2 to 3 stops with Zeiss lenses in manual mode? This only happens with the 1Dx2

Auto ISO exposes perfectly with my Canon lenses in manual and AF mode. (tried only because the Zeiss are MF lenses)

70-200 @ 85mm 1/100, f/2.8 Auto ISO = 6400 perfect exposure and meted show exposure ±0

Zeiss 85mm 1/100, f/2.8 Auto ISO = 1250 well underexposed, but meter shows exposure dead on.

Exposure compensation set to +2 ⅔ w/ Zeiss produces correct exposure and same ISO as when Canon
lenses used.

I don't see any settings that could be affecting this.

I just tried Av mode with Auto ISO and set ISO and that underexposes >2 stops as well.

Edited on May 23, 2016 at 11:15 AM · View previous versions



May 22, 2016 at 05:30 PM
jcolwell
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · 1Dx2 underexposes w/ Zeiss Otus lenses


Is that a ZE lens (which should work OK) or an older Contax lens ?

If it's a ZE, then there could be a glitch in the Canon/ZE exposure algorithm. IOW, since the ZE lens (and EF lens) is metered wide open, the camera calculates what the aperture/shutter speed/ISO "should be" when you push the shutter button, for the "taking aperture" that you have set in the camera. For example, if you're using a ZE 85/1.4 with the camera set for f/2.8, then the camera exposure meter is detecting illumination at f/1.4, and calculating what exposure parameters should be for the correct exposure at f/2.8. If there's a glitch in the Canon/ZE system, then the exposure will be off.

OTOH, if it's a Contax lens, then you're the guinea pig. Most of my Contax lenses work reliably with EOS Av exposure, but some don't, on some but not all EOS cameras.

P.S. since your result is underexposed, it's probably not an aperture-control issue.

Long story, short (too late), if it's a ZE lens, you should contact both CPS Canada and Zeiss Canada, because it's probably an issue in the firmware; hopefully, the in the camera firmware.



May 22, 2016 at 05:47 PM
Vancouver47
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · 1Dx2 underexposes w/ Zeiss Otus lenses


Both lenses are Otus ZE. (55 & 85) The exposure works fine in live-view.

I have already contacted Canon. A good suggestion to contact Zeiss.



May 22, 2016 at 06:35 PM
scalesusa
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · 1Dx2 underexposes w/ Zeiss Otus lenses


Canon cannot design their cameras to support other lenses, they cannot control other lenses, and do not have information about how they work in any event. If you put a Chevy Engine in your Ford, Ford is not going to update their engine computer for you, You need to rely on whoever told you it would work.

I've already heard of other lenses that are not working as expected with a 1DX II. If the reverse engineering is incorrect, there can be a issue.

This happens almost every time Canon releases a new camera, third party lenses, flashes, and other gear may have glitches.

In your case, I'd give the camera a total reset and try again. I have found that fixed a similar issue with some third party lenses in the past. The lens sends a code to the camera identifying itself, and that can cause issues if you have used a similar lens.

There is a lesson here, if you purchase a new camera model and plan to use third party lenses, flashes, or other accessories that interface with the camera firmware, expect glitches and a long wait for a fix.

Edited on May 24, 2016 at 11:56 PM · View previous versions



May 23, 2016 at 07:04 PM
iplayazi
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · 1Dx2 underexposes w/ Zeiss Otus lenses


Same thing with my sigma 85mm and my idx2 it's much darker and my last wedding I had to over exposure 3 stops to get it correct. But no problem with my art lenses and of course L lenses


May 23, 2016 at 09:10 PM
wallstreetonei
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · 1Dx2 underexposes w/ Zeiss Otus lenses


with all 3 new Tamron Primes (35/45/85) you have to disable the Peripheral Illumination Correction or you get opaque circles in the viewfinder - happens with the Sigma 35 Art as well


pretty clear that something has changed in the firmware



May 23, 2016 at 10:34 PM
Vancouver47
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · 1Dx2 underexposes w/ Zeiss Otus lenses


scalesusa wrote:
Canon cannot design their cameras to support other lenses, they cannot control other lenses, and do not have information about how they work in any event. If you put a Chevy Engine in your Ford, Ford is not going to update their engine computer for you, You need to rely on whoever told you it would work.

I've already heard of other lenses that are not working as expected with a 5D MK II. If the reverse engineering is incorrect, there can be a issue.

This happens almost every time Canon releases a new camera, third party lenses, flashes, and other gear
...Show more

I'll try a reset. The body recognizes the lens in some way because the Lens Model and length are displayed in the data along with the RAW file in Lightroom.



May 24, 2016 at 11:40 AM
Vancouver47
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · 1Dx2 underexposes w/ Zeiss Otus lenses


Hmm.. either there is no small internal battery in the 1dx2 or it's not a user change item. Some of the screws in the battery compartment require specialized right angle phillips drivers. There is no mention of an internal battery in the manual. I guess I'll just have to pull the main battery and let the system discharge. I'm not sure how long that will take.


May 24, 2016 at 02:50 PM
mogul
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · 1Dx2 underexposes w/ Zeiss Otus lenses


Vancouver47 wrote:
Hmm.. either there is no small internal battery in the 1dx2 or it's not a user change item. Some of the screws in the battery compartment require specialized right angle phillips drivers. There is no mention of an internal battery in the manual. I guess I'll just have to pull the main battery and let the system discharge. I'm not sure how long that will take.


I think it would be a mistake to discharge the internal battery, it needs to be kept charged by the main battery



May 24, 2016 at 02:55 PM
MDJAK
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · 1Dx2 underexposes w/ Zeiss Otus lenses


Internal batteries are generally lithium and have a shelf life of many years. Taking out the main battery will not discharge the internal battery quickly. You will be waiting a very long time.


May 24, 2016 at 05:09 PM
Vancouver47
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · 1Dx2 underexposes w/ Zeiss Otus lenses


MDJAK wrote:
Internal batteries are generally lithium and have a shelf life of many years. Taking out the main battery will not discharge the internal battery quickly. You will be waiting a very long time.


Canon CPS emailed me an hour ago. Apparently the 1Dx MkII does not have a replaceable internal battery. The only reset is a software clear all setting and set everything else to default, then remove the battery.

Canon emailed that they do not support 3rd party lenses, so my only recourse is Zeiss. If Canon does not support 3rd party lenses I wonder why they write 3rd party lens data into the RAW and jpg files when using those lenses?



May 24, 2016 at 06:09 PM
melcat
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · 1Dx2 underexposes w/ Zeiss Otus lenses


Vancouver47 wrote:
The body recognizes the lens in some way because the Lens Model and length are displayed in the data along with the RAW file in Lightroom.


No, it may well be Lightroom determining that based on matching the focal length, speed and lens model number sent by the lens. There is a lens name which is sent by recent Canon lenses, but many third party lenses don't send it (my "classic" Zeiss 100/2 Makro doesn't, for example). Even if the Otus is sending it, there's no guarantee the body knows what to do with it - it is just an opaque string. Canon have actually told you they do nothing with it.

Canon bodies use this model number to disable outer AF points and to correct the exposure for fall-off. They may also check against the focal length and maximum aperture to make sure they have the right lens (and as Canon never made an 85mm f/1.4, your Otus should then never match the wrong lens).

If the lens matches no lens, the camera probably assumes no fall-off wide open, and thinks the EV is lower in the corners than it really is. If you are shooting stopped down in evaluative mode, this will result in an exposure error, because the camera meters wide open. Because evaluative mode is a "surprise package", the error could go either way if it think's it's looking at a completely different kind of scene.

If the lens matches the wrong lens, who knows what corrections are being applied for that.

In live view, and if the camera can meter at the shooting aperture, no error occurs. I don't know whether it works that way, but that might explain the difference.

I would start by running your tests again using spot metering on the centre point only.



May 25, 2016 at 10:51 PM
Vancouver47
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · 1Dx2 underexposes w/ Zeiss Otus lenses


melcat wrote:
No, it may well be Lightroom determining that based on matching the focal length, speed and lens model number sent by the lens. There is a lens name which is sent by recent Canon lenses, but many third party lenses don't send it (my "classic" Zeiss 100/2 Makro doesn't, for example). Even if the Otus is sending it, there's no guarantee the body knows what to do with it - it is just an opaque string. Canon have actually told you they do nothing with it.

Canon bodies use this model number to disable outer AF points and to correct the
...Show more

Interesting comments, but the 2 to 3 stop underexposure occurs in every metering mode including manual using the internal meter at all apertures . Canon does not make an 85 or 55 f/1.4 but metering is perfect with those lenses on the 5D, 7D2, 5Ds and 1Dx.

Zeiss is about to get active on the issue. I am trying to track down another 1Dx2 locally to see if its common to the body. Unfortunately it seems the only other 1Dx2 locally is the rep's demo and its on loan somewhere.



May 25, 2016 at 11:25 PM
Robin Smith
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · 1Dx2 underexposes w/ Zeiss Otus lenses


I just wish I had these lenses and the 1DX to replicate your problem!


May 27, 2016 at 08:53 AM
Vancouver47
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · 1Dx2 underexposes w/ Zeiss Otus lenses


I had the opportunity to try another 1Dx MkII (pre-production) with my Otus 55 and 85mm lenses today. Both behaved exactly the same as on my body, underexposing 2 to 3 stops.

Since the lenses expose properly with the 5D, 5Ds, 7DII, 1DIV and 1Dx Canon bodies, it does appear to be an issue with the 1Dx MkII. Most likely firmware. I have not tried the 1Dx2 with any other 3rd party lenses yet.

Zeiss is looking into the issue as well.



May 30, 2016 at 05:10 PM
phuang3
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · 1Dx2 underexposes w/ Zeiss Otus lenses


This is weird. The metering is always through the viewfinder. It will even work without a lens attached. If the aperture is out of control, you should get overexposed pictures. Can you use a tape to block the gold contacts of the lens and try again?


Jun 01, 2016 at 09:06 AM
arbitrage
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · 1Dx2 underexposes w/ Zeiss Otus lenses


Sigma has confirmed the same problem with three of there lenses.
http://www.canonwatch.com/sigma-advisory-sigma-lenses-canon-not-fully-compatible-eos-1dx-mark-ii/



Jun 01, 2016 at 09:11 AM
therealthings
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · 1Dx2 underexposes w/ Zeiss Otus lenses


I expect a FW update for this.


Jun 01, 2016 at 09:41 AM
Vancouver47
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · 1Dx2 underexposes w/ Zeiss Otus lenses


therealthings wrote:
I expect a FW update for this.[/quote

Body or lens. That's the question.



Jun 01, 2016 at 10:22 AM
wallstreetonei
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · 1Dx2 underexposes w/ Zeiss Otus lenses


My guess is that this is something that Canon will fix, even though 1DX users are big time users of big white Canon lenses and the trinity of Canon Zooms 16-35 / 24-70 / 70-200 that they likely don't need to do this - thus I don't think it will be fast - it could take a year. The problem will be when the 5D4 is released - because wedding and event photogs use lots of non Canon lenses - and if this new 1Dx_II software is 'new' software, then it will likely also appear with the 5D4 release and cause the same issues. The peripheral illum correction issue happens with the new Tamron primes as well - but the metering is fine. If this is really just an Otus issue, with a much smaller issue for Sigma / Tamron / etc (slight metering for Sigma and easily turned off peripheral illum correction for Sigma and Tamron), then Canon will not be fixing it.


Jun 01, 2016 at 11:34 AM
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