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Archive 2016 · 5DSr Profile Issues

  
 
Bruce n Philly
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · 5DSr Profile Issues


Riddle me this batmen (and batwomen),

1 - Why is it when I created a custom profile for my 5DSr for LightRoom 6.4 (latest updates), the white balance is "off". Or, why am I crazy... er um... why when I click my eyedropper on a gray square, it adjusts the WB? Shouldn't the profile already have already done this??

2 - Bonus question: Why when I click the eyedropper as above, the picture looks yellow/orange to me when the RGB in LR says they are about equal? (grey looks grey, rest of pic look yellow/orange).

By the way, the Xrite, ColorChecker Passport produced the same color profile as when I used the smaller RAW last year (due to the memory size limit) .... I read somewhere the smaller RAW has a different color balance... this appears to be not so with my experiment.

Stuff:
- Canon 5DSr full size RAW
- Canon 100mm f/2.8L Macro IS (on tripod)
- Calibrated NEC PA301W 30" 2560x1600
- XRite ColorChecker Passport
- Sunny day, indirect light
- Used the latest Adobe DNG convert to convert RAW to DNG
- Dragged the DNG into the ColorChecker tool (latest with memory fix) and generated profile

- Opened the original RAW used for calibration w/Color panel in LR
- Made no adjustments, but "turned on" my new profile
- Temp = 5150
- Tint = +17
- pointer in grey block: 57.2, 60.1, 57.7 (shouldn't this be neutralized now?)
- looks really good to me

- Put eyedropper on grey panel, clicked, picture turned a bit yellow/orange but grey panel neutralized
- Temp = 5600
- Tint = +44
- Grey block 60.3, 60.0, 58.9

OK, what is going on here. Why was the original RAW, after profile applied, look fine but grey not neutralized?

Peace
Bruce in Philly

Original RAW here: http://www.travelthroughpictures.com/bdd/photostuff/NProfile.CR2

JPG from LR, no adjustments, just the new profile
http://www.travelthroughpictures.com/bdd/photostuff/NProfileTTP.jpg

JPG from LR, new profile, but I clicked on one of the mid-grey panels, and it re-adjusted:
http://www.travelthroughpictures.com/bdd/photostuff/NProfileTTPEYE.jpg

-



May 14, 2016 at 04:30 PM
Peter Figen
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · 5DSr Profile Issues


Bruce - The profile only tries to equalize the color and tonal response of the sensor but you still have to set a gray balance to fine tune to the light source for that particular image. In theory the white balance Kelvin *should* match the Kelvin of the light lighting your scene. That, again, *should* give you a neutral rendering - in theory. And then there's the high probability that the patches on your CC are not actually neutral, so when you click on them, it imparts a color cast that is opposite of the actual tint in the gray. Only way to determine that is to measure with a good quality spectro and see what the "a" and "b" readings are.

Your first image looks and reads cyan/green, which actually looks sorta normal for a scene with a lot of green in it, probably getting a lot of greenish/cyan reflected into the color checker. The second is more neutral, but is it right? Only you can know that.

Also, having been through some previous Adobe color issues with the 5DS, well, there are other solutions out there that might be better and faster.



May 14, 2016 at 05:58 PM
exdeejjjaaaa
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · 5DSr Profile Issues


Bruce n Philly wrote:
1 - Why is it when I created a custom profile for my 5DSr for LightRoom 6.4 (latest updates), the white balance is "off". Or, why am I crazy... er um... why when I click my eyedropper on a gray square, it adjusts the WB? Shouldn't the profile already have already done this??


for example if 2 different dcp profiles have different CM* tables inside you will have 2 different WB values for sliders in ACR/LR UI for the same actual white balance... and vice versa - keepling the same WB values for sliders in ACR/LR UI will give you actually different white balance when you switch between those 2 different profiles... dump your profiles to xml/json using dcptool or dcamprof and see if the CM* tables are different.






May 14, 2016 at 06:08 PM
EB-1
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · 5DSr Profile Issues


I'd avoid an area with all that green light.

EBH



May 14, 2016 at 07:43 PM
dtolios
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · 5DSr Profile Issues


As said above, perhaps you have too strong of a cast with all this foliage for WB to look "perfect"...it just cannot without looking unnatural.

Plus, afaik the WB boxes in the passport are on the side you've chosen to exclude from your profiling pic. And those are not exactly "mid grey", are much lighter.



image ru

The patches in the center of the provided scale are the "neutral" settings Xrite thinks looks better for Landscapes (stronger greens) or Portrait (warmer skin tones). You can pick slightly cooler or warmer WB based on your preference from that.

You can actually see that the patches that lead to cooler result, are themselves warmer. LR will try to compensate for the warmth, thus making the overall image cooler, and vice versa.

In your case, the green from the surrounding is reflected on the grey patch you've used to set WB, so LR pulls to the warmer / magenta tints to compensate.

Also, don't expect LR's eyedropper to give you perfect neutral grey as in "all values equal to the tenth".
Your results are actually pretty accurate.

Neutral grey RGB values also vary with color-space used, both type & bit depth.





May 16, 2016 at 12:25 PM
Peter Figen
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · 5DSr Profile Issues


Neutral grays are always R=G=B in any of the synthetic Ps working color space. They will only vary slightly in actual pixel level depending on the gamma of that working space. Two different working spaces such as DonRGB and AdobeRGB have identical gammas of 2.2 but quite different tristimulus coordinates reflecting the different gamuts, will have identical readings for every gray patch in the tonal scale, but different readings (of course) for color patches.


May 16, 2016 at 03:24 PM





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