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Archive 2016 · Lemonade ?

  
 
lighthound
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Lemonade ?


Still going through my pile and found this one that I hate to give up on.

I only saw this skimmer one day and this was the only sighting I had of one during our trip. I captured several of the classic action shots as he was skimming but they all turned out like crap because he was too far away and by the time I heavily cropped them they fell apart and are not worth messing with.

In this image he he was a little closer and I think it is borderline salvageable?

I have included the sooc image unedited and only straightened with camera/lens profile set in LR.

What do you think about my processing on this one? Worth it or trash?

Dave




Skimmer - heavy crop and edit






sooc image only straightened




May 14, 2016 at 09:49 AM
ben egbert
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Lemonade ?


Nah, too far away. Even an 800 would struggle with this because of atmospheric haze. If it were worth salvaging, I would clone out the egret, Too OOF to keep.


May 14, 2016 at 10:00 AM
RustyBug
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Lemonade ?


I'll keep it simple ... toss.


May 14, 2016 at 11:08 AM
lighthound
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Lemonade ?


Okay, that's what I thought but you know how it is when you are emotionally attached to a shot.

I was worried I was being blinded as I apparently was.

Thanks for the honesty guys! It's gone like the wind beneath that little bastards wings.

I'll get that little guy next time.

Dave



May 14, 2016 at 12:45 PM
beavens
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Lemonade ?


Dave, FWIW your processed shot's greens are a bit out of control.

Was that intended?

Cheers!

Jeff



May 14, 2016 at 01:20 PM
lighthound
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Lemonade ?


Greens? What greens?

Thanks Jeff! I did not know that and no, I never intentionally push any colors. I did desaturate this several times along the way and I tried to keep a close eye on any color issues by hovering over the whites.

For example. When i put the WB eyedropper on the oof egret, I'm getting R95.7, G95.7, B95.6
And when I hover it over the the white patch just below the skimmers eye I'm getting R93.4, G93.2, B92.6

What do you think? Shouldn't those numbers be close enough to not cause an issue?

Thanks for pointing this out Jeff. Even though this image is destine to the trash, at least I can try to learn something from it.

Dave



May 14, 2016 at 02:35 PM
beavens
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Lemonade ?


lighthound wrote:
Greens? What greens?

Thanks Jeff! I did not know that and no, I never intentionally push any colors. I did desaturate this several times along the way and I tried to keep a close eye on any color issues by hovering over the whites.

For example. When i put the WB eyedropper on the oof egret, I'm getting R95.7, G95.7, B95.6
And when I hover it over the the white patch just below the skimmers eye I'm getting R93.4, G93.2, B92.6

What do you think? Shouldn't those numbers be close enough to not cause an issue?

Thanks for pointing this out
...Show more

Not in white, strangely enough, but everywhere else! Maybe my peepers are wonky?



May 14, 2016 at 04:07 PM
beanpkk
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Lemonade ?


It seems very green to me as well, I think because if you sample the egret it won't be pure white because of all the reflected color around. So if you calibrate the color image-wide from the egret you'll get something not very accurate. I use the sampler a lot for that purpose, and it's often tricky to find a point that works. Whites are not always white and blacks are not always black. Another little bit of complication to add to the photographic list!

keith



May 14, 2016 at 07:59 PM
sbeme
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Lemonade ?


even without reflected light, the egrets are not pure white. Do you shoot RAW and first process "As Shot" or Auto for color temp? I find they are often pretty useful.

And, sad to say, trash these. Hopefully some future opportunities will arise.
I still don't know/remember where you shoot these images. What part of the country?

Scott



May 17, 2016 at 08:11 PM
lighthound
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Lemonade ?


sbeme wrote:
even without reflected light, the egrets are not pure white. Do you shoot RAW and first process "As Shot" or Auto for color temp? I find they are often pretty useful.

And, sad to say, trash these. Hopefully some future opportunities will arise.
I still don't know/remember where you shoot these images. What part of the country?

Scott



Thanks Scott. I was kinda hoping this thread was going to slowly fade off into the darkness of cyber space never to be seen again.

Yep, I shoot nothing but RAW but I might go back and start shooting RAW+ so I'll at least have a in camera prossed jpeg to look at. The only trouble with that is I never remember to set my WB and shooting mode for the type of light and subject I'm shooting. I always just leave the WB set to Auto and the shooting mode set to Standard.

And yep again. I always start out with "As shot" in LR with my WB and then I'll play around looking at "Auto and what ever other WB preset applies such as Daylight in this case.

What about the white patch below the skimmers eye? Isn't that pure white?

I think what might have gotten me into deeper trouble on this shot, on top of what you and Keith are saying is that the whites were very close to being blown so there probably wasn't enough solid data in them to reliably use. Just a theory I have though.

The other thought is maybe in my processing I'm causing some problems. I used NIK on this particular image and darkened everything outside the skimmer to try to salvage it.

On top of this WB issue, I'm still trying to figure out why I have to de-saturate all my images. I've gone through all the trouble and cost to use the color checker and I have a ton of various camera/lens profiles to cover every imaginable lighting and lens combo but it doesn't seem to be helping me much. Unless the rest of the world just isn't use to seeing correct colors. But I some how doubt that's the case.


You would think I would be better at this by having plenty of experience working with white critters. But I still can't get it right.

Edit: I forgot to answer your last question. These were all shot at Huntington Beach South Carolina. It's a fantastic place to go for all kinds of birds and Critters but as I found out, late summer is the time to be there for the birds.

Dave








Bird Dog 1






Bird Dog 2




May 17, 2016 at 09:50 PM
beavens
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Lemonade ?


Dave,

Any thoughts on using the JPEG as a comparison piece when setting your color in RAW?

Jeff



May 18, 2016 at 07:03 AM
lighthound
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Lemonade ?


beavens wrote:
Dave,

Any thoughts on using the JPEG as a comparison piece when setting your color in RAW?

Jeff



Yup, as I mentioned in my above reply.
"I shoot nothing but RAW but I might go back and start shooting RAW+ so I'll at least have a in camera processed jpeg to look at. The only trouble with that is I never remember to set my WB and shooting mode for the type of light and subject I'm shooting. I always just leave the WB set to Auto and the shooting mode set to Standard."

BTW, how does the pup look Jeff? colors okay?

Dave



May 18, 2016 at 08:18 AM
sbeme
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Lemonade ?


on lousy work monitor pup looks OK unless it is a bit whiter than reality. Some dog coats have a bit of yellow in even the whitish areas.

Still can't figure out what's up with your general color temp/WB issue. Down the road maybe you can send some screenshots of your LR adjustment pane.
I shoot RAW or RAW + jpeg, almost always use As Shot as WB starting point although I do search for good white and black points and sometimes shift WB based on that. Or something intermediary.
I think you are right about the inaccuracy of sampling a small area that is already reading 90+/90+/90+ as a white point.

Scott



May 18, 2016 at 08:31 AM
beavens
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Lemonade ?


lighthound wrote:
BTW, how does the pup look Jeff? colors okay?

Dave


Like Scott I'm on a crappy work monitor, but Fiona looks just as I would expect her to appear in the shade.

Jeff



May 18, 2016 at 08:47 AM
lighthound
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Lemonade ?


Thanks Scott. Some where down the road I just might post up a set of images with various WB settings but process them just as I normally do and include some screen shots of my settings. I have a feeling I'm screwing something up (obviously) but I need to figure out where. As I mentioned earlier, I did use NIK on the above skimmer shot and I have a feeling that's where something got pushed out of whack. Unfortunately any adjustments I made in NIK are not retrievable so I think I'll avoid using it until I get my chit straight.

Thanks for the confirmation Scott and Jeff on the pup shot. She isn't pure white in all locations such as you can see in her shoulder and mouth area. And with the red clay soil we have here in SC, it's a bitch to keep her from looking orange all the time.

Dave



May 18, 2016 at 09:42 AM
RustyBug
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Lemonade ?


OKay, so ...

f/32 @ 1/15 @ 158mm
f/32 @ 1/13 @ 100mm

What, were you testing the IS capability just for kicks, or something?

As to the color (pup shots), you are shooting in mixed lighting with the pup in one lighting (i.e. cool) and the BG in a diff lighting (neutral / warmer). Makes for a decision as to which lighting source you are going to consider as your key light (and correspondingly impacts your WB evaluation points decisions).

Also, the point that she is in the cool lighting, means that she is in lower contrast light, while the BG is in the higher contrast light. Played with tweaks to try and do a mild "switch-a-roo" on which is which for the contrast @ draw the eye to the focused subject rather than the defocused BG.

As to the WB points ... I chose the metal railings and her nose as they are both in the same light that is illuminating her, and the neutral metal can be a good tell-tale for reflecting the color of light illuminating it, and I haven't seen too many dogs with colored noses.

To Scott's point, sometimes using "too bright a white" as a basis for setting white balance really doesn't give you enough to go on to start with. But, you can always put the finishing touches on setting the WB for highlights in conjunction with what you came up with for mid's & shadows.

I also threw some multiply at the BG to help bridge the scene DR a bit.

As always, S&P to taste. Hopefully you get the gist.
Caveat: Fighting sunlight to see screen, so hopefully it looks right on your end.







May 18, 2016 at 05:39 PM
lighthound
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Lemonade ?


RustyBug wrote:
OKay, so ...

f/32 @ 1/15 @ 158mm
f/32 @ 1/13 @ 100mm

What, were you testing the IS capability just for kicks, or something?

As to the color (pup shots), you are shooting in mixed lighting with the pup in one lighting (i.e. cool) and the BG in a diff lighting (neutral / warmer). Makes for a decision as to which lighting source you are going to consider as your key light (and correspondingly impacts your WB evaluation points decisions).

Also, the point that she is in the cool lighting, means that she is in lower contrast light, while the BG is
...Show more

Why yes! Yes I was! That's what I was doing, I was just testing the IS on this lens.

Actually in all seriousness, I was attempting to maximize my DOF so that it would be clear to the viewer what the pup was looking at. I didn't have much room to work with and this was the only lens I had with me at the time. I've never tried shooting at such a tiny aperture before and wanted to give it a try. I was actually surprised they turned out as well as they did. These were more of a spontaneous (oh isn't she cute looking at the egret) kinda of shots. I moved back as far as I could and quickly composed the shot to get both the pup and the Egret in the frame before she jumped down and was off chasing lizards or crabs again.

I like your edit. She definitely looks more natural in color then where I had her. To be honest, I only put these pup pictures in here as an example of why I thought I should be better at WBing with white critters. I actually thought I had her correct. Damn.

For my WB, I normally pick an area of white fur on her that I know is suppose to be white (not stained) and is in a shadow area that has good detail (not blown) to ensure it doesn't have a blue cast from the sky or a green cast from the grass. If she's in the grass that is. I rarely ever use her nose because most times it's underexposed (poor data) because I try to get her properly exposed without blown highlights. Being she was in the shade in this set I didn't even think about using her nose this time.

That is good info to have on using the metal rails. I thought they had a natural blue cast to them (galvanized steel) and never even considered the fact I could trust/use them for a neutral point. Very helpful info there.

How do I go about, in LR6, selectively changing different WB points such as you described for shadows ver. direct light? I always set the WB globally for the main subject. I know I can use a brush to selectively change the WB but I have no idea how to determine the correct color and tint setting to use so I don't dare to go there.

And how did you use both her nose and the metal to set the WB? I might be missing something fundamental in my editing knowledge.

Good stuff Kent. Thank you once again!

Dave



May 19, 2016 at 10:07 AM
sbeme
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · Lemonade ?


I don't think there is an easy way to have two color balances processed in LR, although I am on LR4. One way is to select the appropriate WB for the prime subject although you may be able to brush some areas with a hue shift.
In your dog image, a common problem arises. I would first sample the color, assuming it is a neutral black, possibly more likely neutral than the steel rail. However, depending on where you sample, you do get different color temps. I would then choose the most pleasing/realistic. Comparing also with the rail might help you decide which to choose. I don't think the pup is way off. Your first pup shot, a bit warmer, looks more pleasing and realistic to me.

Scott



May 19, 2016 at 11:33 AM





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