Archive 2016 · Sigma 85mm f/1.4 with Nikon D3x/D800

Arka
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Sigma 85mm f/1.4 with Nikon D3x/D800

Hi everyone,

I am using the Sigma 85mm f/1.4 with both the D3x and D800 (same AF module in both I think), and am encountering some frustration with focus in certain situations. I've always been pleased with the Sigma's AF accuracy as a portrait lens, but lately I've been using it more challenging situations: taking pictures of my toddler running towards me at f/1.4. My hit rate with the lens on either the D800 or D3x is less than 50% for this kind of shooting, and I was wondering if any of you had similar experiences. If you have, did you seek to have the firmware upgraded or the lens re-chipped? Does that help? And how does the Nikon 85mm f/1.4 G perform under these conditions (fast moving subject moving perpendicular to the sensor plane, 3D AF-C tracking to lock focus, using peripheral AF points).

Your feedback is most appreciated.

Arka C.

May 11, 2016 at 08:49 PM

jsv_20
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Sigma 85mm f/1.4 with Nikon D3x/D800

What you're describing is the same thing I've found on my D700 with the Sigma 85mm f/1.4. Following a running toddler is never easy, especially if they're running toward you. The back button focus method has been the most consistent in terms of success rate--you just have to time it right and be patient. Also, you have to give your gear some credit--you're working with f/1.4 and even in portrait situations it's not very forgiving.

[edited to clarify]

I should mention that I pre-focus on a spot with the back button focus--then I just wait for the toddler to cross the line where I pre-focused and trip the shutter at just the right moment. Not fool-proof, but it does give me a higher success rate when a toddler or child is running toward me.

Edited on May 12, 2016 at 04:22 PM · View previous versions

May 12, 2016 at 12:16 PM

Mark_L
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Sigma 85mm f/1.4 with Nikon D3x/D800

I'd call 50% very good. Regardless of what people will say no camera is going to nail focus dependably on a toddler running towards you wide open. Af systems still have a very long way to go to manage this with just a few cms depth of field. Nikon 1.4G is slower focusing. I'd turn off 3D tracking, it doesn't work too well.

Stop down, shoot more frames and check focus in post. I'm not sure what peoples' obsession is with shooting everything wide open is anyway.

May 12, 2016 at 12:21 PM

mikejl29
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Sigma 85mm f/1.4 with Nikon D3x/D800

Your depth of field using a FF DSLR with an 85mm f1.4 is really thin. With your subject 12 feet away, it's 6 inches front to back. I don't think a single AF system in the world is going to nail >50% of shots in this scenario.

May 12, 2016 at 12:42 PM

ilnonno
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Sigma 85mm f/1.4 with Nikon D3x/D800

Arka wrote:
And how does the Nikon 85mm f/1.4 G perform under these conditions (fast moving subject moving perpendicular to the sensor plane, 3D AF-C tracking to lock focus, using peripheral AF points).

The 1.4G would give you the same (if not worse...) results. Been there, done that, and ended up selling it discouraged by focusing issues (had 1 myself, and used other 2 copies).
Wonderful lens stopped down to ƒ2+ and focused via live view, truly astounding quality, but a disaster in focusing, and marred by quite some focus shift.
Do not know about the 1.8G, it might be better for just 2/3 of a stop loss.

Your only viable option is to shift to a slower lens, like the 24-70 or the 70-200 2.8, which suffer less from this than the 1.4 primes (the 1.4 can miss focus by a large margin resulting in an overly soft image, the 2.8 zooms will make mistakes, but of a lower entity, plus you are covered by the inherently larger depth of field).
The price is of course loss of background separation, and of two stops of light.

If you don't want to go the 2.8 route, just try to stick to the central point (points, as the outer one are much less precise). It is just the nature of the technology involved... I am sure that if Nikon ever decides to implement a sophisticated focusing module (contrast + phase detect on sensor, like Sony) many of us (excepted for true sport shooters) would live much easier lives.

All the best with capturing your fleeting moments,
Lory

P.s.
The D800 is, in my opinion, a step backward in focusing precision, as was the D4, when using the fast 1.4/2 primes.
The D750 and the D810 are a bit better.

May 13, 2016 at 01:03 AM

Arka
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Sigma 85mm f/1.4 with Nikon D3x/D800

Thanks to everyone for their comments. I appreciate the feedback. I'll definitely try turning the 3D focus off... I've noticed it sometimes picks weird focus points while tracking. I'm also very happy to receive feedback on the Nikon version of this lens. I'm going to rent one to see if I get more hits than the Sigma, but based on what you all are saying here, that seems unlikely.

With respect to focusing accuracy, at shallow DoF, I think some of the commentators here are underrating the capability of modern camera AF systems (at least in comparison to my experience). I recently rented a 5D Mark III with the 135 f/2L to see how it would perform under the same subject/shooting conditions wide open. It ended up doing very well... greater than 85% hit rate. If I use a 50mm f/1.8 (Nikon), it also performs very well wide open, though I appreciate that the DoF is more forgiving there.

We have the 24-70 but it isn't the look I want. I once had a 70-200 f/2.8 VRII which was close in terms of look (and very accurate in terms of focus), but I want to press the equipment harder on subject isolation. I know blurry backgrounds are an overused look to many but I like it, so I want to see if there's a way I can implement very shallow DoF on a moving subject without buying another camera.

Thanks to everyone for their feedback!

May 13, 2016 at 02:33 AM

dougfatheruk
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Sigma 85mm f/1.4 with Nikon D3x/D800

You'd have to be very lucky to catch a moving child with an 85mm f/1.4.

I would describe an 85mm f/1.4 as a portrait lens, I've had the odd moving shot with my 85mm f/1.8G but they're few and far between.

Check out some of the online DOF calculators, it might help to know how much DOF you have to work with because it certainly won't be that much at f/1.4. For me f/1.4G on an 85mm at reasonably close distance puts me in breath holding territory.

The 24-70 and 70-200 are much quicker on the AF then the Nikon 85mm lenes, I can't speak for the Sigma.

YMMV.

May 13, 2016 at 05:04 AM

Arka
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Sigma 85mm f/1.4 with Nikon D3x/D800

dougfatheruk wrote:
You'd have to be very lucky to catch a moving child with an 85mm f/1.4.

I would describe an 85mm f/1.4 as a portrait lens, I've had the odd moving shot with my 85mm f/1.8G but they're few and far between.

It certainly hasn't been easy with the 85 at f/1.4, that's for certain. That said, I haven't been entirely unsuccessful, and I would settle for a reasonably focused image (not necessarily pin sharp) under these conditions. I was able to accomplish that more successfully with Canon's 135 f/2 on a 5D Mark III, probably because the AF on that lens is so fast. I imagine the Canon 85 would give me problems similar to Nikon's and Sigma's 85.

Maybe I'll try the f/1.8 version and see if that gets me where I want to be.

Thanks!

Arka C.

May 13, 2016 at 01:07 PM

Chestnut
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Sigma 85mm f/1.4 with Nikon D3x/D800

I have a toddler, and use the D800E and Sigma 85/1.4 often. Yes - it gets frustrating at f/1.4, but that's just the nature of the beast... think of it as reward-benefit tradeoff... Higher risk of missing focus by a bit, Great reward when you do nail it.

Honestly, sometimes it comes to "the best tool for the job", and 85/1.4 @1.4 is not always the "right" tool for nailing focus on a running toddler. That said, when done well, it is beautiful (and I *try* it too). This lens renders beautifully, but doesn't have a fast-enough AF for "sport" applications (fast moving, rapid refocusing). Pre-focusing does work well, as it takes the AF speed out of the equation. I often end up stopping down to f/2 or f/2.2 to keep my keeper rates higher, but also to have a tad more of my toddler in focus.

I applaud you for sticking with it tho! Catching a running toddler (or just having one) is a difficult but rewarding task! I end up going back to more portraits with the 85/1.4, and leaving the running stuff to a smaller aperture zoom (24-120/4VR, for greater DOF latitude) or smartphone video.

Conceptually, the 85/1.8 has a lot less mass to move when AF-ing... so it may be faster. But I don't own the lens, and don't have first-hand experience with it. Entertained the idea of buying it, but thought I probably won't use it much when I have the Sigma 1.4. I have too much stuff as it...

May 13, 2016 at 03:07 PM

Arka
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Sigma 85mm f/1.4 with Nikon D3x/D800

Chestnut wrote:
I have a toddler, and use the D800E and Sigma 85/1.4 often. Yes - it gets frustrating at f/1.4, but that's just the nature of the beast... think of it as reward-benefit tradeoff... Higher risk of missing focus by a bit, Great reward when you do nail it.

Honestly, sometimes it comes to "the best tool for the job", and 85/1.4 @1.4 is not always the "right" tool for nailing focus on a running toddler. That said, when done well, it is beautiful (and I *try* it too). This lens renders beautifully, but doesn't have a fast-enough AF for "sport"...Show more →

Thanks for the feedback. Very helpful.

Arka C.

May 15, 2016 at 07:00 PM


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