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Archive 2016 · People in an image (philosophy added)

  
 
beanpkk
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · People in an image (philosophy added)


In addition to any general comments, I'm wondering if the two people in this scene help or hurt the image? The one in front is clearly holding up a camera, I think, hence the subject/title.

Monument Valley Sunrise by Keith, on Flickr

Thanks for any comments,
keith

Edited on Apr 26, 2016 at 08:09 AM · View previous versions



Apr 25, 2016 at 08:46 AM
ben egbert
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · People in an image (philosophy added)


I think the inclusion of people is very subjective. Some like it and I see at 500px it has become very popular. For me, I want the illusion that I am the only person within miles. I want it to look like pristine wilderness.

In fact, if I can hear cars, or turn around and see civilization it sort of spoils the experience for me.

But you bring up another point. The title made me think this was taken with a cell phone, now that is ambiguous. But it would be ok with me. a photo should be judged by the image quality not the gear it was taken with.



Apr 25, 2016 at 09:00 AM
beavens
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · People in an image (philosophy added)


Keith,

It really depends on what you're looking to convey to the viewer.

I've got a feeling that this shot is sort of on an island right now - the people are very small, playing up the sense of scale you would get in these wide vistas. But in relation to the nearest butte, they almost appear to be giants.

Do you have much room to crop around with?

Cheers!

Jeff



Apr 25, 2016 at 09:17 AM
lighthound
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · People in an image (philosophy added)


+1 @ Ben's comment about wanting a shot like this to be sterile and his feelings of places like this being spoiled if there is any civilization nearby.

+1 @ Jeff's observation that the people look like giants next to that Butte. That was the first thing that came to my mind. I've only experience seeing these types of landscapes once in my life and they always seemed like huge distant objects so in this image it makes me look twice trying to figure out the scale. So I guess that's a plus in my book.

Because of the optical illusion this would be a tough call if it were my image. I "think" I would make them disappear.

Dave

Dave



Apr 25, 2016 at 11:03 AM
beanpkk
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · People in an image (philosophy added)


Thanks all for looking for the comments which for me, illustrate the large chasm of difference in perception between a photographer, i.e. the one who was there and saw the scene, experienced the wind, the temperature, the people, other surroundings, and those who see an image as just an image divorced from any of that. Indeed, all of the experiential stuff can and often does color my perception to the point that my opinions of my own photos become quite unreliable. People who see the image as just an image react in ways I would never have thought of. I often feel like a blind man suddenly given sight through the eyes of others into a whole alternate reality. None of this invalidates my opinions of my own photos, but if I desire, as most do I think, to create images that people like, I need to try to understand and take people's observations to heart in the possibly vain hope that I will learn to bridge the gap between what I see in an image and what they see.

In this image I saw people walk out onto that point, walk back away from it, run along it, etc, and I have images with no people, with one person, and a couple with three or four. Since I know what I'm looking at, I never noticed any size illusions, but for those who weren't there (i.e. everyone else!) such things are quite real.

As far as having humanity in a landscape image, I have always steadfastly avoided it. But I'm told by more than one professional photographer that an image with people in it sells better than an equivalent one that does not. So I'm just putting my toe into an ocean where people appear in images.

Having said all of this, I really appreciate all of your eye-opening comments -- thanks a bunch.

keith



Apr 26, 2016 at 08:07 AM
lighthound
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · People in an image (philosophy added)


Very well said Keith.
I struggle a great deal bridging this gap in which you speak. Like you pointed out, it's not easy to separate yourself from what you are experiencing at the moment of capture and try to translate all of it into a simple 2D image.

Most people call that "presence" I believe. I call it the Ben factor.

After seeing an image he presented here, that he doesn't really care for much, it struck a nerve in my little brain that taught me what presence really was in an image.
I have yet to be able to capture this in any of my images.

Kinda funny how an image, that means so little to the photog that took it, can have such a profound impression on someone else. That moonlit image will stay in my head forever.

Dave



Apr 26, 2016 at 09:31 AM
ben egbert
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · People in an image (philosophy added)


Photography is a means to an end for me. I was never interested in photography until I moved to an area with great landscape scenes. My original motive was to record it. I have always considered nature the artist and me a simple scribe.

Being an engineer, I understood I would need to learn how to operate the instruments of the craft and I always tried to get good gear for this and to learn the skill. But to this day, 35 years later, I still need a scene to speak to me first. And I am never satisfied with a scene that looks good as an image but was not good in person.

Even with landscapes, I have a narrow range of subject interest. Mountains, streams, waterfalls, copper colored cliffs, seascapes etc. I don’t care much for arches, hoodoos, slot canyons and certainly not sand dunes. I need to feel wilderness, grandeur, vast spaces.

I admire people who can find an image in their yard, or on the street or anywhere for that matter. They have imagination and are doing photography as a art. But like the surgeon I also admire, it’s not in my DNA.



Apr 26, 2016 at 10:08 AM
Camperjim
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · People in an image (philosophy added)


Like Ben, I do not like to include people in my images. Even when small as in this image, the people pull attention away from the landscape. It is just human nature. Other people capture our attention.

I learned a long time ago that for the average viewer, people shots are way, way more interesting than landscapes. I shoot landscapes because I want to capture something about the special, unique, beautiful and interesting characteristics of the places I visit. If I wanted to be popular, I would photograph people.




Apr 26, 2016 at 10:10 AM
beavens
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · People in an image (philosophy added)


IMO there are four groups of people that we try to impress: our peers, our friends/family, the public and finally ourselves.

Our peers can be set in their ways, nitpicky and hypercritical. They look beyond simple aesthetics and consider composition, technique and execution. Pleasing our peers does not necessary translate to the masses.

Friends and family are your biggest fans. F&F will love almost everything you do and in your head make you think you're the next Adams or Cartier-Bresson. The support you receive is great and all, but it most likely won't further your progression as a photographer.

The public is the middle where they aren't going to nitpick every single technical or ding you for slightly less than optimal comp, but they definitely aren't going to enjoy your images just because it's you shooting them.

Then finally there are ourselves, the imagemakers. We are our own harshest critics and I don't know about you, but while I am pleased with a few things I've done, nothing I've taken (yet!) has been a showstopper. But the way I see it, if I can never please myself then I can never become complacent. The day I think that I'm great is the day that I'll put down the camera. Not because I've "made it", but because this is a journey where there is no destination.

Just my $0.02 on "what people think".

Jeff



Apr 26, 2016 at 01:25 PM
beanpkk
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · People in an image (philosophy added)


That's well said, Jeff. Thanks.
keith




Apr 26, 2016 at 03:52 PM
sbeme
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · People in an image (philosophy added)


Great thread. With so many thoughtful and well-articulated ideas and reactions.
Back to the people: it's a different message with vs without. I wouldn't enjoy a landscape exhibit with people in every shot. To me the strongest reaction I have to the people in the image is assistance with sense of scale....something enormously difficult to grasp in these southwestern scapes. Second for me is the question of their relationship to the environment. Why are they there? How did they get there? Can I imagine being there more by identifying with them?

Scott



Apr 27, 2016 at 06:31 PM
eeneryma
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · People in an image (philosophy added)




beavens wrote:
IMO there are four groups of people that we try to impress: our peers, our friends/family, the public and finally ourselves.

Our peers can be set in their ways, nitpicky and hypercritical. They look beyond simple aesthetics and consider composition, technique and execution. Pleasing our peers does not necessary translate to the masses.

Friends and family are your biggest fans. F&F will love almost everything you do and in your head make you think you're the next Adams or Cartier-Bresson. The support you receive is great and all, but it most likely won't further your progression as a photographer.

The public
...Show more

For many people here, photography and the "art" we create is part of our daily lives. It's an effort to make sense of our "existence"... What interests us, excites us, puzzles us, worries us, challenges us. With our cameras, we translate these emotions and thoughts into a visual medium.

It's hard not to take the work too seriously. After all we all put a lot of time and effort into it. By posting photos here, we're sharing, but we're also making ourselves vulnerable by eliciting comments and opinions from peers. I think we all tend to be hard on ourselves...that is human nature.

I could tell you Jeff that I have seen world class photos of yours and others here. I'm not sure you would agree with me. But why don't you ask the bride and her dad whose recent wedding photo you posted whether it's world class. 😀

Steve




Apr 27, 2016 at 07:45 PM





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