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Official: Batis 18/2.8 announced for $1,499
  
 
Fred Miranda
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p.4 #1 · p.4 #1 · Official: Batis 18/2.8 announced for $1,499


GMPhotography wrote:
Nothing native thats for sure outside the 28 f2. I would love to have the Summricon 28 F2 but won't work

The good news the Zoom is very strong at 28mm as well


I agree, the zoom is really amazing at 24, 28 and 35mm. It beats the FE 28/2 prime and that's no easy task.
By the time you start adapting the Zeiss 28/2 (SLR), it starts getting into the zoom's weight territory.




Apr 14, 2016 at 10:29 PM
Fred Miranda
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p.4 #2 · p.4 #2 · Official: Batis 18/2.8 announced for $1,499


BTW: Here is Batis 18/2.8 Adorama's Hands on.
http://www.adorama.com/alc/9514/article/hands-new-zeiss-batis-2818mm-prime-lens-sony-alpha-cameras



Apr 14, 2016 at 10:35 PM
GMPhotography
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p.4 #3 · p.4 #3 · Official: Batis 18/2.8 announced for $1,499


Maybe Sunday Sony will announce a GM 28 1.4. I be all over it


Apr 14, 2016 at 10:51 PM
tsdevine
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p.4 #4 · p.4 #4 · Official: Batis 18/2.8 announced for $1,499



No, and I'm sort of at the point where I'm really happy with what the Pentax gives me. So I could only see replacing it with a native Zeiss (preferably Loxia.) If the lens fairies bequeathed me a Leica 28mm f2.8 II...sure I'd take it.

If I were into zooms, I'd definitely get the GM.

-Tim

Fred Miranda wrote:
That's quite a collection you have.
If I were to replace my current FE 28/2 for an adapted lens, it would be the Zeiss 28/2 (SLR) + adapter. Have you tried it? I've read it has a highly pronounced field curvature. I may rent one and try it out.




Apr 14, 2016 at 11:04 PM
DannyBurkPhoto
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p.4 #5 · p.4 #5 · Official: Batis 18/2.8 announced for $1,499


Fred Miranda wrote
That's quite a collection you have.
If I were to replace my current FE 28/2 for an adapted lens, it would be the Zeiss 28/2 (SLR) + adapter. Have you tried it? I've read it has a highly pronounced field curvature. I may rent one and try it out.

My 28 is the current Zeiss 28/2 (ZE mount). Very compact for a ZE lens; I got it late last year but haven't had a chance to use it much so far. It has very pronounced purple CA for the first couple of stops, much like the 35/1.4.



Apr 14, 2016 at 11:29 PM
DavidBM
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p.4 #6 · p.4 #6 · Official: Batis 18/2.8 announced for $1,499


Fred Miranda wrote:
I agree, the zoom is really amazing at 24, 28 and 35mm. It beats the FE 28/2 prime and that's no easy task.
By the time you start adapting the Zeiss 28/2 (SLR), it starts getting into the zoom's weight territory.



What interests me is how the the new 18 compares to the other zoom: 16-35.

The Batis 25 is a bit nicer than that zoom at 25; especially in terms of contrast against the light. There have been a few times when I had wished I'd used the Batis rather than the zoom.

Also it would be super cool to compare the Batis 18 cropped to 21-24 equivalent, and then uprezzed back to 42MP to the same rez as the zoom. There's some chance they could be similar in quality, as the final quality is sensor rez (reduced by the cropping) x lens rez (hopefully higher than the zoom).

Here's an image (Dampier Peninsula in the Kimberley region of Western Australia) with the Zoom at 18mm which I rather like, but think that a Batis prime might handle the contrast against the setting sun even better:




Apr 15, 2016 at 01:43 AM
Steve Spencer
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p.4 #7 · p.4 #7 · Official: Batis 18/2.8 announced for $1,499


Fred Miranda wrote:
I really like the 21mm FL for landscapes. The L21 is glued on my camera unless the background is too close to the foreground forcing me to go 15mm or if it's too far way, in which case I try 28 or 50mm. (or the 24-70GM zoom)

The new Batis 18 is definitely the best complement to the Batis 25. Zeiss have an end game for sure.
I'm expecting a Loxia 15 and perhaps a Loxia 85 in the near future.


As I have said before I don't expect a Loxia 15. I don't think they can do that with the current 52mm filter thread that I expect them to use. Instead, I expect the five Loxia lenses that were initially planned to closely follow the Contax G primes. Those lenses were 21 f/2.8, 28 f/2.8, 35 f/2, 45 f/2, and 90 f/2.8 (there was also the 16 f/2 Hologon, but that is a pretty unique and likely non replicated lens). The similarity to the Loxia lenses is pretty obvious. Yeah, the 45 f/2 in Contax G is a 50 f/2 in the Loxia line, but that is a small and somewhat expected change. So, I am thinking the next two Loxia lenses will be a 28 f/2.8 and a 90 f/2.8. I would love to see a 100 Macro, but I don't think it is in the cards either. I think a 25 f/2.8 might be a possibility or a 60 Macro, but I think the 28 and 90 are much more likely,



Apr 15, 2016 at 03:59 AM
Steve Spencer
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p.4 #8 · p.4 #8 · Official: Batis 18/2.8 announced for $1,499


GMPhotography wrote:
Point being having a 21 and a 24 do not gap very well. It was literally three steps when I tested the Loxia 21 against the 24-70 at 24mm. Better served have your gap lens more like this

10,15,21,28,50 or 12,18,24,35

This is how you typically would gap lenses but heck anyone can do whatever they want here. Obviously we are not talking lens perspective here more view angle and the wider we get the bigger differences there are. Its also depends very much on what you like. No hard rules here just suggested ones


My preference would be for an Batis 18, Batis 25, FE 35, FE 55, and a 100 f/2 AF kit for the A7rII. I am hoping that Sony makes an E mount version (with maybe just a little update) of the Minolta 100 f/2. For me that would be the perfect lens to add to the kit, but I can live with the Batis 85 instead of that lens. I would just prefer a bit more separation than between 55 and 85. Anyway, I agree at the wide end of Batis 18, Batis 25, and FE 35 have close to optimal separation.



Apr 15, 2016 at 04:06 AM
sebboh
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p.4 #9 · p.4 #9 · Official: Batis 18/2.8 announced for $1,499


meh, looks like a very nice performer, but i would never buy this instead of the loxia 21/2.8. much more compact, much more useful focal length, better build, and manual focus is much better for these focal lengths imo.

the 35/2 is the batis they should make, or 50/1.4.

this lens looks decently sized though considering the speed and focal length.



Apr 15, 2016 at 04:09 AM
tzhang4284
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p.4 #10 · p.4 #10 · Official: Batis 18/2.8 announced for $1,499


Steve Spencer wrote:
As I have said before I don't expect a Loxia 15. I don't think they can do that with the current 52mm filter thread that I expect them to use. Instead, I expect the five Loxia lenses that were initially planned to closely follow the Contax G primes. Those lenses were 21 f/2.8, 28 f/2.8, 35 f/2, 45 f/2, and 90 f/2.8 (there was also the 16 f/2 Hologon, but that is a pretty unique and likely non replicated lens). The similarity to the Loxia lenses is pretty obvious. Yeah, the 45 f/2 in Contax G is a 50
...Show more

I think the Loxia line is actually shadowing the ZM line given that Zeiss stated that the Loxia 35 and 50 were direct adaptations of existing ZM line designs. The Contax 35mm is also a "planar" while both the Loxia 35 and zm 35mm f2 are biogons with similar performance for their respective cameras. The 50mm for the ZM is also a planar. They deviated from the ZM line with a new "distagon" design for the Loxia 21 vs the old biogon. 21. I'm guessing the next Loxia will be either based on the 85mm f4, Contax g 90mm, or a new design. I hope it's a new design in the 100mm to 135mm focal length or a Batis 135 since we really do not need another 85mm to 90mm lens in the Sony fe line up.



Apr 15, 2016 at 04:31 AM
 

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zephoto
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p.4 #11 · p.4 #11 · Official: Batis 18/2.8 announced for $1,499


I'm quite happy with my Touit 12 but I'm sure this will be beastly.


Apr 15, 2016 at 04:40 AM
Fred Miranda
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p.4 #12 · p.4 #12 · Official: Batis 18/2.8 announced for $1,499


Steve Spencer wrote:
As I have said before I don't expect a Loxia 15. I don't think they can do that with the current 52mm filter thread that I expect them to use. Instead, I expect the five Loxia lenses that were initially planned to closely follow the Contax G primes. Those lenses were 21 f/2.8, 28 f/2.8, 35 f/2, 45 f/2, and 90 f/2.8 (there was also the 16 f/2 Hologon, but that is a pretty unique and likely non replicated lens). The similarity to the Loxia lenses is pretty obvious. Yeah, the 45 f/2 in Contax G is a 50
...Show more

You could be totally right. We don't know what the future brings and this is just a calculated speculation.
What gives me hope is that the initial lenses were based on the ZM line and there is a 15/2.8 ZM
The L21 is a new distagon design and it isn't unreasonable to think Zeiss could re-design a new Loxia 15 for the Sony E-mount. I know what you are saying about the filter size but there is always one lens that breaks the rule.

Meanwhile, I'm more than happy with the slower CV 15/4.5III. I do use my monster 15/2.8 ZE sometimes...



Apr 15, 2016 at 05:09 AM
DavidBM
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p.4 #13 · p.4 #13 · Official: Batis 18/2.8 announced for $1,499


And as you were no doubt imagining, Fred, the fact that the 18 has broken the filter thread uniformity of the Batis increases the chance that Loxia may not be uniform.

Actually I'd be surprised if a 15/2.8 has a filter thread at all (which I know would upset many, but not me, as it's too wide for a polariser to be much use except in special circs like bits of reflective water or perhaps some glistening leaves. I wouldn't want a part polarised sky on a 15. And I've given up grads (replaced with bracket and blend, or just ettr and brush) as well as NDs (replaced by many exposures and stack in PS)



Apr 15, 2016 at 05:56 AM
justruss
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p.4 #14 · p.4 #14 · Official: Batis 18/2.8 announced for $1,499


Steve Spencer wrote:
My preference would be for an Batis 18, Batis 25, FE 35, FE 55, and a 100 f/2 AF kit for the A7rII. I am hoping that Sony makes an E mount version (with maybe just a little update) of the Minolta 100 f/2. For me that would be the perfect lens to add to the kit, but I can live with the Batis 85 instead of that lens. I would just prefer a bit more separation than between 55 and 85. Anyway, I agree at the wide end of Batis 18, Batis 25, and FE 35 have close
...Show more

We're very close.

A perfect prime kit for me is: 18mm f/2.8, 35mm f/2, 100mm f/2. The 18 can be mf. The 35 must be AF. I prefer AF on the 100mm.

For certain situations I'd also consider: 16-35 and 70-3/400.




Apr 15, 2016 at 09:05 AM
tsdevine
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p.4 #15 · p.4 #15 · Official: Batis 18/2.8 announced for $1,499



I would be shocked to see a Loxia 15 f/2.8 with a 52mm thread. The Loxia 21 is 52mm and has a decent level of vignetting. It's also tough to put more than one filter on it. So a 15 with the same speed and quality would almost surely demand a larger filter thread size.

-Tim



Apr 15, 2016 at 09:37 AM
johnahill
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p.4 #16 · p.4 #16 · Official: Batis 18/2.8 announced for $1,499


Fred Miranda wrote:
It seems that with 35mm and wider, you have to go SLR+adapter or native for the A7 series.
28mm is such an important FL for me and although I'm happy with the FE 28/2, I wonder if there is a lens out there that is vastly better on the A7RII with stock cover glass.


I'm surprised how little love there is for the Zeiss ZF 25/2.8, i tested 2 copies of the Leica 28 v2 against it and kept the Zeiss. OK it's called a 25 but its closer to 26.5 really very little difference to a 28.



Apr 15, 2016 at 10:04 AM
Steve Spencer
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p.4 #17 · p.4 #17 · Official: Batis 18/2.8 announced for $1,499


tzhang4284 wrote:
I think the Loxia line is actually shadowing the ZM line given that Zeiss stated that the Loxia 35 and 50 were direct adaptations of existing ZM line designs. The Contax 35mm is also a "planar" while both the Loxia 35 and zm 35mm f2 are biogons with similar performance for their respective cameras. The 50mm for the ZM is also a planar. They deviated from the ZM line with a new "distagon" design for the Loxia 21 vs the old biogon. 21. I'm guessing the next Loxia will be either based on the 85mm f4, Contax g 90mm, or
...Show more

You are of course right that the Loxia line is closely related to the ZM line (the 35 and 50 could even be considered adaptations of the ZM lenses). The ZM line in turn has a heritage in the Contax G line, but the ZM line has 15 primes and we know that Zeiss initially committed to building just 5 lenses, so the 15 ZM lenses doesn't provide much guidance about what the 5 Loxia lenses will be. Based on the ZM line there are many many possibilities. My argument is that the 5 primes in the Contax G line may give us a lot more guidance about what the five lenses in the Loxia line will be.

Even if you start with the ZM line, however I think you get to a similar place. Let's start with the assumption that with only 5 lenses there won't be a duplication of focal lengths (there won't be two 35s or 50s or 21s). This rules out four of the existing lenses in the ZM line and we are left with 3 clusters for the remaining lenses. There is wider than 21, 15 f/2.8 and 18 f/4. There is between 21 and 35, the 25 f/2.8 and the 28 f/2.8, and there is 85mm (the 85 f/2 and the 85 f/4). As I said above I don't think it will be 15mm because of the filter size and really the same goes for 18mm with the additional argument that I doubt Zeiss will want a Batis 18 and a Loxia 18. So, I think 21mm will be the widest at least to start.

On the flip side either the 25 f/2.8 or 28 f/2.8 (or perhaps both) makes a ton of sense. The gap between 21 and 35 is fairly large and either of these lenses would fit the Loxia parameters of size and filter thread quite well. I think 28 fills the gap a bit better than 25 (especially given that there is a Batis 25), so my best guess is that there will be a Loxia 28.

At 85mm I don't expect an 85 f/2, although it would be possible but that would likely be a pretty expensive lens and they already have the Batis 85 f/1.8. I expect the Loxia to be more different. I doubt they would go with an f/4 like the ZM line because I think that lens is partly f/4 because of the constraints of rangefinders (both blocking the viewfinder and ability to focus at longer focal lengths). So, I do think we are likely to see an 85 or 90 f/2.8. I like the 90 f/2.8 because it differentiates the lens a little further from the Batis 85.

So, there are my thoughts. Take them for what they are worth which isn't much. Those who have hope for a 15, I think can still hope. That is either the third or fourth most likely lens IMO (behind the 28 and 85 and maybe behind the 25) and if the next lens or two sells well we may get more than the initial 5 lenses that Zeiss planned. Still, my bet is that if we get a Loxia 15 it will be quite a bit in the future.



Apr 15, 2016 at 10:14 AM
GMPhotography
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p.4 #18 · p.4 #18 · Official: Batis 18/2.8 announced for $1,499


One thing about the Loxia 21 is it still vignettes at 5.6 which bugs me a little. Rather see it a little less. I'm wondering about the 18 here.


Apr 15, 2016 at 10:59 AM
LostBoyNZ
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p.4 #19 · p.4 #19 · Official: Batis 18/2.8 announced for $1,499


GMPhotography wrote:
One thing about the Loxia 21 is it still vignettes at 5.6 which bugs me a little. Rather see it a little less. I'm wondering about the 18 here.


According to the review on Diglloyd.com, it does indeed.

"Without correction, vignetting is just over two stops wide open to the far corners, and just shy of two stops at f/5.6. With (in-camera) correction, these figures are roughly cut in half."



Apr 15, 2016 at 11:47 AM
bjornthun
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p.4 #20 · p.4 #20 · Official: Batis 18/2.8 announced for $1,499


The Zeiss ZM 15/2.8 is a Distagon type and has a 72mm filter thread and weighs 550 grams. We can compare this to the Batis 18/2.8 at 330 grams and with a 77mm filter thread. The Loxia 21/2.8 weighs 394 grams and has a 52mm filter thread.

I think that a Loxia or Batis 15/2.8 with a filter thread at least 72mm wide is possible and it will be a Distagon. There is no way it can be a 52mm thread, not even if it's a slower lens like the VC 15/4.5 which has a 58mm thread. Zeiss will do well to include a filter thread, so that square filters can be used. Zeiss offers to modify the 15/2.8 ZF.2/ZE to remove the lens hood, so square filters can be used, so hopefully they have learnt a lesson there. Zeiss needs to decide on which filter thread should be the big one in the Loxia line, if they are going to expand the Loxia line to 15mm instead of making a Batis 15mm.

Deciding on one "big" filter thread for the Loxia line will make it easier to later add (fast) telephoto lenses in that line. I think it's acceptable to have two filter sizes in the Loxia line, if Zeiss can manage to stick to that.

Since Sony, Zeiss and Voigtländer(Cosina) have now made lenses to cover all primes from 10mm to 90mm, I expect and hope that we will now see some prime lenses longer than 90mm added, before the wide angle department is again revisited.



Apr 15, 2016 at 01:16 PM
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