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Archive 2016 · Gear, the favourite topic!

  
 
glort
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Gear, the favourite topic!



I was following some links regarding some recently mentioned equipment and thought I'd have a look at fleabay and buy another light to replace the one I smoked in my Chinese Cheapo kit.

Back in the bad old days, Strobes were a hugely expensive item and when I started, some people were still using hot lights due to the expense of strobes. A brand name kit cost many thousands and could be on par with a small vehicle.

I bought my cheap kit because I was doing a lot of event work and I didn't want my Elinchroms being hammered. I paid nearly 4 times for one light what I bought the whole 4 light kit for so I was thinking if I get half a dozen jobs out of it, i'll have done OK. I was concerned aout the light quality but was astonished at what these little heads put out. Every bit as good as he Chromes and Bowen I have.

Man, I have hammered those things for more than 5 years doing all sorts of work and they still are going except for the one I smoked a while back which I later realised was due to my own stupidity in running it flat out for like 30 min instead of getting a couple and having them all run at a much lower setting. I don't know what the max flash/ cooling off time is but I went 10 times above and beyond what any sub floor pack generator could do.

And that's another thing, I have run these heads off dodgy inverters, home made generators and other filthy dirty power sources and they haven't been the slightest bit worried.

Now I see you can get the chinese lights with remote control power settings. No more pulling lights down or climbing ladders to ajust them, do it all from the camera. 300W light, under $250 my money which makes them about $1.95 US. :0)

I also see that you can control speedlights with the same controller. again, cheap as chips.
Then we have the bare bulb flashes and the ice light replacements and so it goes.
Shooters have never had so much gear so cheaply available and with a level of technology beyond dreamed of not that long ago.

Yes, I know, there are the brand snobs out there that won't use anything but whatever brand they favour and think is infallible. And sometimes that's the sensible thing. Other times, the alternatives can be just as good or better. I have been amazed with teh performance of my yongnuo sped lights and was looking at the latest offering in those to upgrade as well.

The thing I ask myself when buying this knockoff gear is what do I want it for? High or low risk setting?
What is the performance like? acceptable good or lousy. So far, I haven't found lousy in anything I have got. How often will I use it?
And finally, will this last as long as the brand name times as much as I save.
Buy this I mean if a canon speedlight is $600 and the knock off is $200, will 3 of the cheapies last as long or longer than the OEM?

So far, I haven't had anything that didn't last as well as an OEM or survive what i would have not expected anything to. I'm sure others have had things fail quickly but I have had OEM that didn't work out of the box as well so to me, brand name that is made in china or some other 2cents a day labor rate place is not an automatic guarantee of quality.

I have seen many things in other interests and professions that have come straight out of the same factory. One as a whoflungdung brand and the other as world recognized and they are the same identical thing bar the over inflated price on one of them.
Accessories for my good "ol boy , made is USA Harley is one of them.
Bugger me, even the printing on the box was the same bar the additional Harley branding. The item was clearly the same made by the same people. Of course the Harley product was 6 times what the one without Harley stamped on it was.

I wrote to Harley and they said they did use other manufacturers and they had tested all their components to be up to their standards but this did not stop the producers of some of their accessories marketing the same parts under their own branding.

In other words, some of our shit can be had from the same factory for a shipload less.

As gear fixated as shooters are, there is so much amazing stuff out there so cheap atm, it's worth buying just to play and have fun with. The chinese have really opened up a lot of possibilities for affordable gear now and at very least, you could buy the knockoff, see if the function of the gear is what you want and if it is, then you could use it till it dies and decide if you want to pay the extra for the OEM. If it's not what you wanted or thought it would fulfill, then you just saved yourself about 75% to find out.

I remember buying Quantam radio slaves for a fortune not even 10 years ago. Now any Chinese kit flash comes with several radio triggers and they are a fraction of the size of the old quantum's and more reliable. Same with Turbo batterys. Once a kings ransom, now readily available and a fraction of the price. there are knock off battery grips with features the OEMS don't have and in my experience, 110% reliable.

Don't even get me started on batteries. Without exception, the knockoffs I have bought within a month of buying the camera have all lasted years longer than the OEMS and had better endurance. No exceptions. I did buy a bunch 6 years ago and one was faulty. I messaged whom i bought them off for a return address and they sent out 3 more without question or returning the faulty one. OEM, Upwards of $80. Knockoff, $7. OEM, lasted about 2 years. Knockoff, still going fine at 5 years.

Whichever way, for the gearheads, the amount and level of technology out there and the low price is amazing.
For old farts like me, what we once dreamed of ( or couldn't even dream of) let alone afford or justify, is now common place and at virtual give away prices.

I'm waiting for the Chinese DSLR knockoffs. They will probably have all the things shooters lament that the OEMS don't and cost 1/4 or less.








Apr 06, 2016 at 07:56 AM
DoubleDragon
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Gear, the favourite topic!


TL;DR: There's a variety of Chinese knockoff versions of certain camera accessories, and they're cheaper than brand-name versions.



Apr 06, 2016 at 10:48 AM
level1photog
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Gear, the favourite topic!


Glort, absolutely.

3rd party accessory and lens are making photography very affordable and give anyone professional looking images. I can buy Godox bare bulb flashes and strobes for a fraction of profoto and other brand name and it offers HSS, remote inputs, modeling light, and TTL. I also bought Yongnuo manual flashes before I learn about Godox. I got it from someone who is getting out of the industry. He liquid all 4 flashes for $100!! Almost in brand new condition.

What this mean is anyone who has the passion and desire to learn post processing, photography,business of photography, combine with affordable gears can achieve professional looking results and/or start a business. The barrier to professional photography has never been so diminish as it's now.



Apr 06, 2016 at 12:59 PM
flash
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Gear, the favourite topic!


Fifty years ago no one in their right mind would buy a Japanese car. Now Toyota is considered one of the most reliable brands in the world and you can spend $100K+++ on a Nissan or a Lexus.

So 20 years ago the Chinese and Koreans move into the cheap and cheerful range to replace the more expensive Japanese products.

Now we have companies like Godox that are making innovative products for very little money. In Oz Godox now has a distributer and it's one of the best known professional suppliers. Guys who import Eizo, Elinchrom etc...

In some cases these *cheap* brands are the innovators. Radio flash for Sony and Nikon is more available and reliable from these guys than from Sony or Nikon themselves and even pocket wizard. Lithium battery flash guns. Drones.

The natural progression is for China and others to grow to be similar to Japan in quality and range. Then a new cheap player with a large uneducated low paid workforce will enter the market to make cheap copies of what the Chinese and Japanese produce. And so the cycle continues.

I haven't had Glort's luck with batteries. Without fail the cheap ones I get have significantly lower capacity than the OEM's so for those I stick with the OEM ones.

Other than that I'm finding that the more expensive option isn't always better than the cheaper one, although sometimes it is.

Gordon



Apr 06, 2016 at 04:03 PM
LeeSimms
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Gear, the favourite topic!


And nobody thought that by 2017, Australia would completely abandon domestic automotive production. It's a changing world.


Apr 06, 2016 at 04:14 PM
FrancisK7
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Gear, the favourite topic!


I have the new Godox V860II coming in the mail. $150 for all those features and a lithium battery sounded awesome.

Unfortunately early reports are that the system sucks. Misfires all over the place, TTL exposure severely underexposed and weird behavior at sync speeds of 1/250 or above.

99.9% of my TTL exposures are perfect with the TT5/TT1+SB910 system and misfires never occur. What does annoy is how you have to open things in the right order or the shit hits the fan.

I also had a chinese grip suddenly lock my camera and the camera just wouldn't work with the grip on thereafter.

Chinese products offer interest savings but there are downsides to consider.

Have yet to find downsides for cheetah/cowboystudio softboxes though. Cheap and they work well. No electronics to mess up.



Apr 06, 2016 at 04:35 PM
IrishDino
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Gear, the favourite topic!


I try an avoid 3rd party or knock-off stuff for mission critical items (lenses, flashes, batteries, memory, etc.).



Apr 06, 2016 at 05:10 PM
InSanE
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Gear, the favourite topic!


I hear dinosaurs once walked this earth


Apr 06, 2016 at 05:13 PM
gnjphotography
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Gear, the favourite topic!


Adorama has the Flashpoint series, based off the Godox system. The xplor600, streaklight 360 and zoom l-ion all working together for a complete system. The flash can even control the other lights.
The options and choices today are limitless.



Apr 06, 2016 at 06:41 PM
BigIronCruiser
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Gear, the favourite topic!


FrancisK7 wrote:
I have the new Godox V860II coming in the mail. $150 for all those features and a lithium battery sounded awesome.

Unfortunately early reports are that the system sucks. Misfires all over the place, TTL exposure severely underexposed and weird behavior at sync speeds of 1/250 or above.

99.9% of my TTL exposures are perfect with the TT5/TT1+SB910 system and misfires never occur. What does annoy is how you have to open things in the right order or the shit hits the fan.

I also had a chinese grip suddenly lock my camera and the camera just wouldn't work with the grip on
...Show more

Underexposures would be different I have the original V860n with the X1-N and X1R-N, and every TTL shot is over-exposed by at least 3 stops with a D800 and D5. OTOH, the X1-N with the 360ii-N produces pretty decent TTL shots at all shutter speeds except 1/250. I have not experienced any misfires.




Apr 06, 2016 at 09:11 PM
mikethevilla
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Gear, the favourite topic!


I should probably start working for them at this point with how much I shill for them, but I can't say it enough: My Yongnuo flashes are freaking awesome. 6 years and running.


Apr 06, 2016 at 10:12 PM
glort
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Gear, the favourite topic!



I always find it interesting the different experiences people have with the same products.

I am happy to admit, I'm a big fan of Chinese stuff atm and thats not just camera gear. I have bought a wood splitter, Chipper, hoist, jump start packs, a pole saw, couple of brushcutters, a wheel balancer, LED light bar and flood lights, diagnostic machine, solar load controllers, speed controllers, some verious test gear and a heap of control boards for different things as well as other stuff and I haven't had a problem. Even the stationary engines I have bought have been brilliant.
hard to justify a Honda when the clone that takes the same parts gives no trouble. Not up to testing ultimate life yet but again going back tot he price/ service equation, I'd be amazed if 2 of these things didn't outlast a Honda ( and not at all surprised if they were equal) which would put me at least 60% in front!

Everything I have bought over the last few years has in fact far exceeded my expectations.
I try to do my home work, make sure the product fits the use and pay my due diligence but so far, could not be happier.

Like mike, my youngnuo flashes have been brilliant and having used a variety of canons borrowed from friends, frankly I thing the knockoffs crap all over the Canon.
I'm let to wonder though why some people get good service from some things and other do not? I have done things with my stuff I think will be a destructive application so it's not like I baby them.

I think the products coming out now over all are very exciting. There are so many things the technology opens up that was never available before.
We tend to complain about traditional markets becoming non viable but very little about new way the now affordable and increased technology can help us.

There was a ad I saw for a new Video camera that tracks your movement. You put a tag on your arm or wherever, put the cam on a tripod and the thing follows your every move. From memory the whole setup was under $1000.
First thing I thought of was now there is a pre made market for kids sports!
Horses, go karting, field sports, Motocross.... you name it. Set the thing up ( or several) and sit on your butt and burn the footage to USB and you could have a very good potential business with min outlay that is unique and marketable.

I'm always amazed here how people seem to know every camera, accessories and bit of gear on the market and wonder how they have time to know all about every model of every brand out there. I think if people spent as much time thinking about how new gear could be put to use in creating original markets, photography would be a much more profitable business.




Apr 07, 2016 at 12:20 AM
glort
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Gear, the favourite topic!


LeeSimms wrote:
And nobody thought that by 2017, Australia would completely abandon domestic automotive production. It's a changing world.


Quite!

I was at a tourist destination a few weeks back and was looking at poster size prints of the place taken back in the '50's. There were shots of the main street and the cars, people etc.
Straight away it struck me, probably 8 out of 10 cars were the localy produced Holdens or Fords. The others were English cars, some of which were made here anyway.

I turned and looked into the street where the pic was taken and dismayed at the amount of Japanese cars. Probably in the order of 9/10. The local cars are so far behind even to what they were 10 years ago.

It's a shame but I believe really down to poor management. The companies kept building cars like they always had and failed to pay much attention to the changing world and market. Our locally produced cars of the last 20 years were mainly the full size models with a load of imported things making up the small to medium size offerings.
Many of these have not held up well and there have been different models like hot breakfasts which have not endeared the brands respect.

My father has been a dyed in the wool Holden man all his life both privately an in the auto business. He ran a big dealership when I was a kid and was always loyal to them. About 12 years ago, seeing the writing on the wall, he gave the local stuff away in his wrecking yard business and went to Subaru.
He likes that they were not east west motors, the AWD was a huge asset in teh country where there are many and slippery dirt roads and the fact a lot of major components were interchangeable across the model and year ranges.

It was a good move. Suby here has had strong growth the whole time and is a very respected brand here. Many country people have them just to be able to get in and out their own properties and they are liked because they are a car, not a truck.
He's well established now and has been a long time and no one literally for 100 miles in any direction touches suby because they know my father has the market wrapped up and everyone goes to him.

It is still a shame that our traditional marques whom are a huge part of our culture and Identity are going the way of the Dinosaur. they have had every chance of success and blown it at every turn. they cars are not at all bad, they rival much more expensive things like BMW or merc. The problem now is they only appeal to a very small market because they have failed to keep pace with what the market wants or innovate the way the Japs have. Probably the US parent companies don't understand the local market either and been influential in what works for them, not what works in OZ.

The Japanese however have been able to come up with a formula that pretty much works the world over. Amazing really when you consider the head start the US had in design, manufacturing might, resources and experience and the Japs have been able to beat them and pretty much everyone else at their own game.

I remember when Hyundai and Kia came here. They were like disposeble cars. Keep them 2 years at best then run away from the things. Now they have the best warrantys and are the ewual of pretty much anything else out there. They are feature packed for the price and they tend to work.

Some friends bought some Ssongyang Mussos some years back because they were still an old style diesel engine that could be run on veg oil. The only complaint I ever heard about the things ( and it was always the same one) when ever I asked anyone I came across what they thought of them, was the clock stopped working and so did the replacement.

The owners often seemed a bit miffed about that. I always laughed to myself how for a car so many non owners would ridicule, The only thing people that owned them complained out was a freaking clock you could replace for $5 for an aftermarket anyway..... Or look at the one on the aftermarket stereo most people put in.

I always thought If i bought a new car for half the price of anything competitive and 5 years down the track that was my biggest gripe, I'd be pretty damn happy!




Apr 07, 2016 at 01:46 AM
MRomine
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Gear, the favourite topic!


Much depends upon the demands of what you are shooting as to wether or not it's worth the extra cash or not. Photographing weddings and portraits for consumers will not have the same requirements/expectations that come from working with commercial clients with big advertising budgets where near perfection is often expected. In those cases the less expensive yet fully reliable cameras and lights can't always deliver what is expected in the way of quality and/or consistency. How so or in what way?

35mm digital capture has come a long way since 2000 and as good as it has become for some uses it's still not good enough. Not that there isn't enough resolution, sharpness or mega pixels, rather it has more to do with the quality of the capture. 35mm are still capturing in 12 or 14 bit files instead of 16 bit. Those two bits can make a big difference in silky smooth tonal gradations and color gradations of products, backgrounds and skies. That's one of the reasons why medium and large format are so much more expensive than 35mm. They are capturing in 16 bit.

Same thing with lighting. One of the big reasons why Pro Photo, Elinchrom and Broncolor, the Cadillac of studio lighting can charge so much is that they can deliver in ways that the cheapo knock-offs can't. Like what? The exact or nearly exact color temperature across the full range of power settings. The cheap knock-off brands can't do this. Their color temperatures will vary several hundred degrees from full power down to minimum power outputs. Or worse yet from frame to frame without changing the power settings. That can create major headaches when photographing a product where you need to have the color of the product be exactly the same across the entire frame as well as, from frame to frame. For example, say you are doing a product table top photo of a chain saw and you are lighting it and the set with four lights, three on the product and one on the background. The top or main light is at full power the two other lights on the product are set between -1 to -2 for the fill and accents and then the background light is at 1/2 power to the main light. I think you can see the potential nightmare that can be caused if the color temps of these four lights are not the same. That's just one example.

So much depends on your need, for most of us the less expensive brands will suit or needs just fine so there is no need to buy OEM.



Apr 07, 2016 at 08:56 AM
glort
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Gear, the favourite topic!


MRomine wrote:
So much depends on your need, for most of us the less expensive brands will suit or needs just fine so there is no need to buy OEM.


I did a short stint in the photographic dept of a major retailer at the time. Just as I got offered a full time job there they got closed down shortly thereafter and the work was farmed out.
The guy that ran it, a Texan with a drawl as big as WA had a very favorite item in a colour temp meter. He would balance all his lights before every shoot with gells.
People always commented on the incredible colour saturation and tonal range of his pics and thought he was doing some trick processing but they went through standard processing and He scoffed at the idea of clip tests.

He said quite rightly, if you do it right in the first place there is no need to compensate for poor practice.

Back then, lights weren't so mega stable in color temp OR output. This guy would have the lights (Floor pack Generators and heads) warming up for an hour at least before he started and have some pleb ( me) firing off the test button frequently to warm the heads as well. He would even try to allow a certain time between shots because it was pretty common knowledge the Ready light or beeper always sounded before the things were actually fully ready.

There is much I have come across in a wide and varied area that the " Cheap" knockoffs of today leave the best and most expensive brand names of 5-10 years ago for dead.
A lot of people will only buy brand name for peace of mind but won't accept that the run of the mill stuff will outdo what they were paying top dollar for back then and they are still doing the same thing.

I showed my father this recently with Tools. He had the big name electric rattle gun, over $700 just for the skin. I talked him into buying a $200 one so we could use 0one each, one for the heavy stuff and one for the light. First time out we found the cheap gear would do stuff the exy one would never look at.
My father was so convinced this couldn't be right he was going to send his high end brand name away for repair..... Till I found the specs on both and the cheapy was rated high which was what we had seen.

I own that brand name rattle gun now and all the other yellow tools he had. He owns a whole set of the Cheapy ones and bought a 2nd rattle gun as well. He has had the first one 19 months now and the only problem was he bashed the LED light off the front which the other one never had. he sent it for repair and they did it under warranty which he never claimed as he knew it was what he did.


From another thread, I downloaded the Godox catalogue last night.
there is some really exciting stuff in there.
I have an investment coming due in a few months, I think I might just buy a whole new setup of flash gear.
I have never been real taken by bodies or lenses, but anything to do with flashers has always got me excited!

Wait, let me put that another way........



Apr 08, 2016 at 04:10 AM
jmraso
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Gear, the favourite topic!


I was so happy the day I got rid of my Canon flashes (550 & 580) and started with Metz !, it made me realize "Jaime, you dont have to have the very first brand or nothing".

So much good stuff out there !



Apr 08, 2016 at 04:56 AM
glort
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Gear, the favourite topic!



I never had anything but problems with canon flashes.
Never owned one, only ever borrowed different ones from different friends but all with the same result. They always under exposed and had to be adjusted up 2/3 of a stop or more. they were the same on friends cameras but they were kind of brandwashed and just took it as the way they were.

One "brand name only" friend borrowed my Yongnuos ( begrudgingly) for a job and I was waiting to hear the complaints when I got them back. This guy is well off and only has the best of ANYTHING. Similar to my father only even more stubborn. :0)

I went over to see him and he handed back the flashes and thanked me.
I asked how did I find them waiting for the amusing answer. He simply said " After using those, I'll never buy another Canon again".
A very funny picture would have been the look on my face I'm sure.
For him to say that, it really was something.

He went on and said the fact you can get 3 of those for the price of one canon and they worked better is something I would never have expected.

I know he bought a TTL remote setup after that and got rid of his pocket wizards because he never liked the way they worked and was laughing because he had money left over from selling the used PW's and buying the Chinese set with more remotes.

Metz were the main and pretty much only flash for a very long time with pro shooters. Sunpack always tried to get in on the market but never really made inroads and Vivitar had the market sewn up with speedlight style heads that had a fast recycle option.

The metz 60's had a separate shoulder pack battery. It was heavy and didn't last that long either being a traditional lead acid battery like a small motorcycle unit.
I started using the 45's which took AA's or Nicads in the handle. The nicad packs were exy and you needed about 4-5 to get through a typical wedding I shot.
I got onto some small SLA batteries that were 4V ea. I used 2 in series and some decent wire and modified an old nicad pack to input the Juice.

It worked fantastic. Recycle times were always the fastest and i could shoot more than 3 weddings before I recharged them. I don't know how many they would have lasted. I just recharged them on Mondays and that was it. The first ones I got were 9 AH and a bit heavy at about 2.8 Lbs ea. so I went to the 4.5 AH ones and they would last 2 full weddings and die at the end of the 3rd. I would either recharge them after either of the first 2 wedding or I found I could put them on when I got to the studio and was shooting the formals and by the time they got called into the reception place which was usually an hour-90 min, the things were at about 3/4 again which was plenty to finish the back 9 of the wedding I was doing.

Later on I discovered the 7.2V Nicad packs the remote control car guys were using.
I could velcro these to the back of the flash and they would just get through a wedding. I got a car charger and would put them on when I was driving back from the park to the studio and they would be full charged again by the time I got there.
They could be charged in as little as 15 min but I got a good charger and could program different charge rates and as the things were never fully flat, a gentle charge was enough especially as they only needed to be about half charged to get me through the rest anyway.

I made a lot of those up for the other guys I worked with and they were a huge hit because the recycle times were always at the fastest with no dropoff ( when they did slow being nicads you knew you had about 10 hits left and they were dead) and what I was charging the guys for the whole setup was the same as one nicad pack anyway.

The battery capacity of the packs increased pretty fast and the price went down so it was only about a year later I could get packs that were more than enough for a whole wedding.
If I did one now out of Lipo's, it would be 1/4 the weight and at least back to the capacity of the old SLA's.
With the advent of things like the Godox PB packs that allow 1 sec recycle times, you would probably be 1/4 to half the way there on the price of the batteries with the 4-5 sec recycle times. For me the godox pcks would be far the better buy but for others not really fussed on fast recycle, the Lipo Cells may be OK.

I see the 45 metzs are still around but the 60's have been replaced with a more or less all in one 76 model that costs a bomb.
For me there is still something about the 45's. I have used them with my digicams despite the endless clap trap of too high a sync voltage I have had no problems with about 6 different cameras I run them on and I have an original CT-1 as well as some CT-4s.

I still like the robust hammerhead design which is far superior to the fragile hot shoe type.
If only the Chinese would make a hammer head design. At $800+, it's just too hard to justify a new Metz these days especially when you can have something like a wistro setup for less.



Apr 08, 2016 at 08:39 PM





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