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Archive 2016 · Creative Cloud software rental

  
 
butchM
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p.4 #1 · p.4 #1 · Creative Cloud software rental


gdsf2 wrote:
You are much better off waiting to see what they ACTUALLY offer before making any purchase decisions.


So ... are you going to suspend your subscription for Lr today to 'wait and see' if Adobe is deserving of your future investment? You wouldn't want to make a 'purchase decision' without ACTUALLY seeing what they are going to offer in advance ... right?

Your proclaimed philosophical advice doesn't fit a subscription model. Subscribers can't see what they are investing in, before it arrives. It's total, blind trust, if or when any new features, enhancements or additions will ever appear. How can you advise to evaluate, then buy when using the subscription model.

Sure, things can change in the development process ... but when a project leader makes a statement on a company owned and moderated forum ... and is interviewed for a publicly published story that in all likelihood had to be approved by management before the interview was conducted ... you kind of take things at face value.



Mar 31, 2016 at 11:12 AM
gdsf2
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p.4 #2 · p.4 #2 · Creative Cloud software rental


butchM wrote:
So ... are you going to suspend your subscription for Lr today to 'wait and see' if Adobe is deserving of your future investment? You wouldn't want to make a 'purchase decision' without ACTUALLY seeing what they are going to offer in advance ... right?

Your proclaimed philosophical advice doesn't fit a subscription model. Subscribers can't see what they are investing in, before it arrives. It's total, blind trust, if or when any new features, enhancements or additions will ever appear. How can you advise to evaluate, then buy when using the subscription model.

Sure, things can change in the development process
...Show more

Butch, wow, you really do refuse to read what I actually write each time I post. I NEVER said I would suspend my LR subscription while I wait for new features. I said I would not buy LR unless it already had the features I want. Anything that comes later is just a free bonus. That is my WHOLE POINT. Never assume new features will ever come, regardless of what somebody says might happen. Sh!t happens, and things change, and development paths change. They do not owe you any new features. If you don't like what they give you for your $10, at any time, you just walk. If there are no better options, oh well.

Regarding the subscription model, yes, it does cost you $10 to "demo" it for a month to see if it is something you want to use. So what?

And finally, this is not "philosophical advice," just common sense.



Mar 31, 2016 at 01:50 PM
butchM
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p.4 #3 · p.4 #3 · Creative Cloud software rental


gdsf2 wrote:
Butch, wow, you really do refuse to read what I actually write each time I post.


That, my friend, is a two-way street ... you have been cherry picking as well.

I said I would not buy LR unless it already had the features I want.

Yes, I read that the first time ... sorry to ruffle your feathers by pointing out the flaws in your advice.

Never assume new features will ever come ...

So you are content to pay Adobe $10 per month, indefinitely even if Adobe would never, ever offer any new features or updates? Is that what you are saying?



Mar 31, 2016 at 02:18 PM
chez
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p.4 #4 · p.4 #4 · Creative Cloud software rental


Gdsf2...sound advice. Buy the product for what it is today and ensure it does what you need it to do prior to buying. Like you said, future enhancements are a bonus. If Adobe stopped working on LR /PS today, I have everything in those products to continue my image processing in an effective and efficient manner. With future features, my workflow might get even more effective and efficient...who knows.


Mar 31, 2016 at 02:20 PM
gdsf2
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p.4 #5 · p.4 #5 · Creative Cloud software rental


butchM wrote:
That, my friend, is a two-way street ... you have been cherry picking as well.

Yes, I read that the first time ... sorry to ruffle your feathers by pointing out the flaws in your advice.

So you are content to pay Adobe $10 per month, indefinitely even if Adobe would never, ever offer any new features or updates? Is that what you are saying?


I have no idea what your first two points are supposed to mean as I am not a mind reader, but I will address your third which is a clear question I do understand:

I will pay Adobe $10/mo until I migrate to something else (Product B). I will migrate to Product B if (1) it has a set of EXISTING features at a price point I feel is a better value than the set of features I get from Adobe for $10/mo, and (2) the cost of migration to Product B is offset by the additional value I receive from Product B. Until then, yes, I will pay Adobe $10 a month for what they give me today (with no added features or updates).




Mar 31, 2016 at 02:44 PM
butchM
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p.4 #6 · p.4 #6 · Creative Cloud software rental


gdsf2 wrote:
I have no idea what your first two points are supposed to mean as I am not a mind reader ...



All you need to do is take your own advice and read your past comments in this thread. The flaws are quite apparent. Whether you are a mind reader or not.



Mar 31, 2016 at 03:17 PM
gdsf2
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p.4 #7 · p.4 #7 · Creative Cloud software rental


butchM wrote:
All you need to do is take your own advice and read your past comments in this thread. The flaws are quite apparent. Whether you are a mind reader or not.


Sorry, I still don't understand you.



Mar 31, 2016 at 03:21 PM
butchM
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p.4 #8 · p.4 #8 · Creative Cloud software rental


gdsf2 wrote:
Sorry, I still don't understand you.


It's simple. Go back and read your comments. The contradictions are quite evident.




Mar 31, 2016 at 04:14 PM
gdsf2
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p.4 #9 · p.4 #9 · Creative Cloud software rental


butchM wrote:
It's simple. Go back and read your comments. The contradictions are quite evident.



Butch, could you share an example please. If not, have a nice day.



Mar 31, 2016 at 06:28 PM
chez
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p.4 #10 · p.4 #10 · Creative Cloud software rental


gdsf2 wrote:
Butch, could you share an example please. If not, have a nice day.


Better yet...don't for the sake of the rest of the members.



Mar 31, 2016 at 06:55 PM
butchM
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p.4 #11 · p.4 #11 · Creative Cloud software rental


chez wrote:
Better yet...don't for the sake of the rest of the members.


Yeah ... that probably is a good idea ... because I'd likely feel obligated to point out your contradictions in this thread as well.




Apr 01, 2016 at 09:47 AM
gdsf2
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p.4 #12 · p.4 #12 · Creative Cloud software rental


butchM wrote:
Yeah ... that probably is a good idea ... because I'd likely feel obligated to point out your contradictions in this thread as well.



Butch, you seem like a guy who has to always have the last word. So, please post right below me and I won't post anything in return. And you can feel good for the whole day. Ready...go!



Apr 01, 2016 at 11:16 AM
Arka
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p.4 #13 · p.4 #13 · Creative Cloud software rental


chez wrote:
I can turn down tlhe cost in time and effort to try itegrate a bunch if disjoint applications. Through the years, many would be great applications arose and died just as fast. if it costs me $10/month just to ensure my years of iage processing experience is preserved...it's well worth it to me. I don't have any interest in trying out a handful of products just to find none do the full meal deal. Like u said...my tie s sure worth more than $10/month...that is tie not spent trying out a bunch of other applications and modifying my image processing
...Show more

Chez, you obviously will prioritize your time as you see fit, but let's not imagine that it takes very long to try out "a bunch of other applications" versus relying upon your "years of iage [sic] processing experience." Have you tried any alternatives? I'm going to assume you haven't. I have, and I quickly realized that they offer numerous advantages that persuade me to reject the "sunk costs" argument re: my accrued PS skills. Unless you have very particular reasons to keep Photoshop in a workflow (e.g., custom scripts, brushes, interoperability among multiple users in a production environment, etc.), I don't see why one should avoid newer and usually better ways of working. Even in collaborative content creation pipelines that enforce use of PS, many artists and photographers secretly embrace non-PS alternatives, and simply save the images they create in .PSD format for art editors to review. The editors are none the wiser.

I don't know how complex your workflow needs are. My own demands on image processing software are not modest, and I suspect that I have probably spent at least as much time as you have learning Photoshop (I started in 1992 with Photoshop 2.0 on a Apple Macintosh IIci). Yet despite over two decades of working in PS, I have been able to learn how to make images like the ones attached to this post with less than 30mins of "learning" iOS apps like Pixelmator and Procreate.

These are apps that, combined, cost only slightly more than a month of CC subscription. Had you asked me even a year ago whether I could achieve this level of creative productivity on iOS, independent of Photoshop, I would have laughed at you. But now I realize that even in their early days, many iOS apps are extremely capable, and unlike freeware like Gimp, extraordinarily well designed. And they enjoy significant improvements in update cycles of a few months, rather than over years.

Are they as efficient in all workflow aspects as Photoshop? Of course not (though Affinity's Serif is interchangeable with PS for all of my needs, and functions basically in the same way). But are they extremely competent for a wide range of complex image processing and content creation tasks? Absolutely! Indeed, any person with "years of [image] processing experience" such as yourself can learn exactly what is possible in each app in far less than an hour of tinkering. That is the power of new apps; they make many workflow tasks easier, and are nowhere near as difficult to learn as PS. As a result, I haven't really used PS in over two months, but have generated at least as much image content in those months as I was when I was living in PS.








Painted in Procreate, with a few layer adjustments in Pixelmator







Layered file processed in Pixelmator and Affinity Serif Pro




Apr 01, 2016 at 12:56 PM
butchM
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p.4 #14 · p.4 #14 · Creative Cloud software rental


Arka wrote:
Chez, you obviously will prioritize your time as you see fit, but let's not imagine that it takes very long to try out "a bunch of other applications" versus relying upon your "years of iage [sic] processing experience." Have you tried any alternatives? I'm going to assume you haven't. I have, and I quickly realized that they offer numerous advantages that persuade me to reject the "sunk costs" argument re: my accrued PS skills. Unless you have very particular reasons to keep Photoshop in a workflow (e.g., custom scripts, brushes, interoperability among multiple users in a production environment, etc.), I
...Show more

I agree with much of what you offer. We shouldn't be afraid to explore and evaluate possible options. A slider for white balance, HSL, contrast, etc., etc. is a slider. There are far more similarities than differences between most imaging/graphics apps. Some of the nomenclature of the tools or developer jargon may differ, but not excessively so.

Some of the new apps, when compared to Ps, may not have every facet of goodness that we have become accustomed to over the years ... but they also don't carry all the cruft of ancient code and unnecessary functions that have since become mostly deprecated yet still present from when Ps was young.

In fact most of the newer apps that come close to replacing Ps are far more efficient from a hardware resource perspective because of the cleaner, more efficient code base.

There are some tasks in Affinity Photo and even Pixelmator (also in Acorn too) that move much more quickly and smoothly than in Ps. All with a much smaller footprint across the board.



Apr 01, 2016 at 01:50 PM
chez
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p.4 #15 · p.4 #15 · Creative Cloud software rental


It's easy to kick the tires of other apps...done that with Gimp and Corel. But to truly master the application and understand the best methods to get the most of your image is not an afternoon walk in the park. Even LR, which by all accounts is a simple application, has a hefty learning curve as can be seen by many people asking how to best do colour balance or noise reduction or sharpening etc... And let's not even get into PS's layering and blending etc... There is an industry just serving the education of LR and PS. Other applications which are as capable, if there are any, are just as difficult to master.

And why spend that time and effort when LR / PS does everything I need? I have much better things to do with my time like sitting out on my deck with a glass of Merlot...than mucking with a bunch of wannabe applications. No thanks...I'd rather pay the $10/month and just relax.



Apr 01, 2016 at 02:33 PM
Arka
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p.4 #16 · p.4 #16 · Creative Cloud software rental


Chez, maybe your hostility to "kicking the tires" of other apps stems from the fact that you started your exploration with Gimp and Corel; I wouldn't ditch PS for those apps either, because they are just as obtuse and difficult to use as PS, without providing as rich a feature set ("wannabe apps" as you derisively call them).

The nice thing about Procreate and Pixelmator is that they are particularly easy to use. And Serif preserves a lot of PS's look and feel (for better or for worse). These apps, along with the iPad Pro & Pencil, have almost completely abolished my dependence on a fixed workstation for PS.

Your discussion of "true mastery" is not rooted in PS so much as it applies to principles of image processing (e.g., blending, layering, alphas, color correction tools). Those ideas transcend PS, so what you know about PS is probably a lot more portable than you think. And while PS may have been a pioneer in many of these areas, I assure you there are plenty of modern apps that are quite capable in this regard that are far easier to master. Procreate is but one example.

And speaking of portability, I (like you) enjoy going outside as well. One of the great benefits of setting up a mobile workflow that doesn't require an inefficient resource pig like PS is that I can actually draw, paint, or process photos outside while sipping that glass of wine.




Apr 01, 2016 at 05:21 PM
chez
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p.4 #17 · p.4 #17 · Creative Cloud software rental


Arka wrote:
Chez, maybe your hostility to "kicking the tires" of other apps stems from the fact that you started your exploration with Gimp and Corel; I wouldn't ditch PS for those apps either, because they are just as obtuse and difficult to use as PS, without providing as rich a feature set ("wannabe apps" as you derisively call them).

The nice thing about Procreate and Pixelmator is that they are particularly easy to use. And Serif preserves a lot of PS's look and feel (for better or for worse). These apps, along with the iPad Pro & Pencil, have almost completely
...Show more

Arka, I'm happy for you that you found an alternative...now can you maybe see it from the other side where people might be happy with LR / PS? Like I said, I don't have a need to look elsewhere...happy with what Adobe is offering. I would find looking for an alternative to be a waste of time since I'm happy where I am today. I'd rather spend my energy on other things.



Apr 01, 2016 at 08:21 PM
Arka
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p.4 #18 · p.4 #18 · Creative Cloud software rental


Chez, my comments aren't designed to make you change your mind. They are designed to dispel factual inaccuracies you propagate when you advance you're "I'm content with PS and need nothing else" worldview. One could read your comments and come away with the false impression that any alternative to PS is merely a "wannabe" app that won't provide Photoshop's capabilities, and that learning how to use such wannabe apps would take enormous amounts of time. Neither of these impressions are consistent with the facts. I only ask if you've tried the alternatives yourself to determine whether you've actually investigated the capability and learning curve of the very powerful PS alternatives out there. As it is clear that you have not, I'm a little baffled as to why you consistently phrase your satisfaction with PS in the context of denigrating alternatives you haven't even tried. You could have just written what you wrote in your post above, and this discussion would not even have occurred.


Apr 01, 2016 at 10:49 PM
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