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Archive 2016 · A7 Loose mount: has anyone been able to fix one?

  
 
uhoh7
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · A7 Loose mount: has anyone been able to fix one?


I use alot of lenses on my A7.mod, and I thought maybe I should get the signature "tough E-Mount". I installed it and it seemed good with the first adapters I tried. Then tonite I was shooting a play with an FD adapter on my 24/2. It almost would not mount. Extremely tight.

At home I tested other adapters and found many were very tight or even would not mount.

On research I see many others have the same issue. I also noted lateral play with T-Emount installed. Luckily I did not take the stupid youtube advice from fotodiox and throw away the old mount. It's back on and I still have some lateral play.

Where is it coming from? It's for sure not the plastic, but appears to be whatever the screws grab ahold of.

Any Ideas?

Camera is from 2013 and I'd expect Sony will charge me 400 bucks or so just to "maybe" fix it.

I'd rather find a reliable fix if there is one. TY everyone

I see Sony part number for the mount is:
453653101 plate only same as used in A7S.
but not yet found PNs for screws and the spring plate....

well screws:
ILCE-7/7R mount: #198 M1.7x4.0mm part# 4-186-545-01

now the spring plate...

Also what's the best place to get sony parts in USA? Encompass someone said has a $200 minimum?



Edited on Mar 13, 2016 at 05:19 AM · View previous versions



Mar 13, 2016 at 04:15 AM
pdmphoto
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · A7 Loose mount: has anyone been able to fix one?


I'm sure you have already seen the LensRentals A7R teardown?


Mar 13, 2016 at 04:59 AM
uhoh7
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · A7 Loose mount: has anyone been able to fix one?


pdmphoto wrote:
I'm sure you have already seen the LensRentals A7R teardown?


TY yes I did have a look, I think A7r is metal chassis, not sure about A7.

Here is issue, mine is not quite this bad but same idea:



I'm wondering if this is the chassis itself moving?

Spring plate is in there too....



Mar 13, 2016 at 05:21 AM
mcbroomf
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · A7 Loose mount: has anyone been able to fix one?


Yes, looks like it could be the chassis. Perhaps repairable with the right glue?

1st I assume that the the 4 screws are tight and they are moving as the top plate flexes.

I didn't want to take apart an A7R mount but I have an old dead Nex 5N, so if the assembly below the mount is similar these photos might help. As you've replaced the mount it should be simple for you to take it off again to see what's below the hood...

On the 5N after the mount plate, plastic ring and spring plate are removed you can see 2 more screws. They hold on the outer ring. Once that's off you can see that on the 5N the screw mounts are molded directly up off the chassis. If the A7 is similar then I'd guess one of them is cracked, or perhaps has a stripped thread.

http://i.pbase.com/o9/63/551663/1/162766219.I04E8ul3.Nex5Nlensmount.jpg



Mar 13, 2016 at 05:53 AM
uhoh7
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · A7 Loose mount: has anyone been able to fix one?


TY so much for this, I better have a look


Mar 13, 2016 at 06:01 AM
mcbroomf
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · A7 Loose mount: has anyone been able to fix one?


PS. Be careful as you remove the outer ring. If the A7 is similar to the 5N there is a little spring between the 2 part lens release button that is all held together by the outer ring. So as you remove the ring they might just fall onto the floor and become difficult to find ... just sayin'


Mar 13, 2016 at 06:08 AM
uhoh7
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · A7 Loose mount: has anyone been able to fix one?


mcbroomf wrote:
PS. Be careful as you remove the outer ring. If the A7 is similar to the 5N there is a little spring between the 2 part lens release button that is all held together by the outer ring. So as you remove the ring they might just fall onto the floor and become difficult to find ... just sayin'


Haha, glad I did not dive in late at night. I think I will learn more, as my mount is not super loose, just a bit.




Mar 13, 2016 at 02:50 PM
adamdewilde
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · A7 Loose mount: has anyone been able to fix one?


Time for an SL :P
In all seriousness I hope you find a fix for this!



Mar 13, 2016 at 03:13 PM
TheEmrys
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · A7 Loose mount: has anyone been able to fix one?


I had the same issue. But when I put the tough e mount on, all FE lenses were fine, but I had to switch out the cheap adapters for the A7 for the ones for a7II/s/rII. Work perfectly.


Mar 13, 2016 at 03:19 PM
uhoh7
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · A7 Loose mount: has anyone been able to fix one?


TheEmrys wrote:
I had the same issue. But when I put the tough e mount on, all FE lenses were fine, but I had to switch out the cheap adapters for the A7 for the ones for a7II/s/rII. Work perfectly.


For me, the tough E is just as loose laterally as the stock mount. Hence there is zero advantage.

In addition based on how it was working last night, I may have lost infinity focus. Plus, I feared I had made the lateral play worse using the FD adapter, since I had to twist it with some force to mount. But it was once in lifetime event. So was very frustrating and unexpected. I won't be buying any fotodiox products, simply because not only is there no warning about this problem, they advise you to throw away the old mount!!! (on youtube install video)


DSC00630 by Charlie Webster, on Flickr



Mar 13, 2016 at 04:40 PM
TheEmrys
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · A7 Loose mount: has anyone been able to fix one?


Well, the adapters I have used do make a note of which ones you can use with which bodies. However, they do not make any mention of the Tough E mount replacement, their own product. Quite unfortunate. I think all.... oh my. 6 of my non Sony adapters are Fotodiox. I may have a problem.


Mar 13, 2016 at 08:49 PM
ISO1600
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · A7 Loose mount: has anyone been able to fix one?


TheEmrys wrote:
Well, the adapters I have used do make a note of which ones you can use with which bodies. However, they do not make any mention of the Tough E mount replacement, their own product. Quite unfortunate. I think all.... oh my. 6 of my non Sony adapters are Fotodiox. I may have a problem.


I have not seen any adapters specified as to A7 or A7R/S/II versions. Where are you seeing or buying adapters where they have one for the A7 and one for the other models? They are the same mount, just the mount itself is more substantial on the "other" cameras.



Mar 14, 2016 at 07:44 AM
TheEmrys
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · A7 Loose mount: has anyone been able to fix one?


Fotodiox does it. Got them all through Amazon.


Mar 14, 2016 at 01:33 PM
ISO1600
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · A7 Loose mount: has anyone been able to fix one?


I've gotten away from Fotodiox after having a few glaringly defective/bad adapters from them, on top of no longer always being the "cheap" option worth a darn.


Mar 14, 2016 at 01:54 PM
uhoh7
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · A7 Loose mount: has anyone been able to fix one?


UPDATE

So first I put the old mount back on, but it was not very firm, as noted. Finally tonite I put the tough E carefully back in place, and pulled out my adapters.

It turns out most of them would not mount simply because of this screw:

Screw by unoh7, on Flickr
That little silver one on the side, which many Nex adapters, but not all, seem to have. Remove that and all but two mount fine: both FD and which appear identical. One has a brand name: Fotodiox!

At this point the TE mount does seem more stout than the stock A7 mount. I'm going to test to see if I'm off at all laterally.

Any ideas what that little screw is for?



Mar 18, 2016 at 09:50 PM
timballic
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · A7 Loose mount: has anyone been able to fix one?


The small screw is "usually" there as a stop, to prevent the adapter being turned beyond its designed stop point, where it might jam. So be careful not to turn too far, with the ones where you've removed it!
(So far, all my adapter mounts do fit, without needing to remove the stop screw.)
[EDIT: I've just checked my Signature edition Tough E mount, and it relies on a different stop, built in to the mount, so if the standard Fotodiox Tough E mount is the same, you shouldn't be able to turn the adapter/lens too far, even without the screw.]

For interest, I had a long correspondence with Phillip Reeve, on why the Tough E Mount makes the difference it does cf. the native mount (I'm using the "brass finished Fotodiox "Signature" 2015 edition)

Eventually, after much theorising, and close comparison, I discovered:

The native Sony E plastic spacer, have notches on their lower side, where the end of the spring plate "arms" x3, fit when a lens/adapter is attached (Could do with an app to add arrows! the notch is at 11 0'clock position, below and between the hole and upper one of the two shiny black circles)
Sony E mount plastic spacer by Timothy Ball, on Flickr

IMG_6934_Lr5 by Timothy Ball, on Flickr


The signature version has no notch, so the spring arms are much tighter
Fotodiox Signature by Timothy Ball, on Flickr

IMG_6936_Lr5 by Timothy Ball, on Flickr

Here you can see one of those spring arms.
Signature Tough E by Timothy Ball, on Flickr

Below, on the Shoten mount, the "notches" are faithfully copied from the Sony plastic spacer, with the result that the Shoten mount doesn't hold the lens/adapter as firmly as the Fotodiox Signatute mount does. I verified this, when I changed to the Shoten mount on my IR converted A7. It wasn't a lot tighter than the original.
I ended up "bending" one of the spring arms to a more curved profile (only one needed bending, as the profiles varied from arm to arm...not by design I decided!)
DPP_12 by Timothy Ball, on Flickr

We also concluded that the reason the mount loosens over time (every mount) is because the spring plate arms become flatter after many lens changes. Also, the profile of the sprung arms, isn't constant. So some new cameras (A7, A7r) have looser mounts than others from new, and others just wear loose.

I don't own one to verify, but from pictures on the web, the "normal" Fotodiox Tough E mount also appears not to have the notches.

I really need to buy a spare spring plate, for when the original one weakens, even on the Fotodiox Tough E mount!



Edited on Mar 19, 2016 at 06:10 AM · View previous versions



Mar 19, 2016 at 04:16 AM
mcbroomf
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · A7 Loose mount: has anyone been able to fix one?


Great info Tim! Thanks....


Mar 19, 2016 at 04:35 AM
pdmphoto
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · A7 Loose mount: has anyone been able to fix one?


I guess there must be a lot of variation in the stock mount as well as the third party solutions. I'm
happier with my Shotun than I was with my Fotodiox tough emount. The fit and finish are better, and the lens or adapter goes on smoother and holds with at least as much firmness and stability. From my tests with my Contax Zeiss 100-300, the Shotun provides better perfomance. As mentioned, compatibility with adapters is also better with the Shotun.

I've had three different A7r's (all v1) and even the stock mount was not consistent between cameras. Either replacement mount was an improvement of the original.



Mar 19, 2016 at 11:01 AM
uhoh7
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · A7 Loose mount: has anyone been able to fix one?


Awesome Tim, thank you so much. We need to find the part number for the spring plate.

I also paid for the "Signature Edition LT from Fotodiox Pro - Brass" but it came as a simple silver version, with no mention of signature on it.

What's interesting is that half my adapters don't have that little screw at all. So how do they stop on the old mount?



Mar 19, 2016 at 03:05 PM
trogdon
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · A7 Loose mount: has anyone been able to fix one?


Always leads me to question whether I should get the Tough E or Shoten. Seems the Shoten is slimmer, but that's about it...


Mar 19, 2016 at 04:21 PM
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